Re: [GENERAL] New name

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Ron House Ron House
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

On 02/10/10 23:41, Mirek M. wrote:

> Well, "Open Office" was usually the spoken term used to refer to
> OpenOffice.org, and I'd say that's much easier to pronounce than
> LibreOffice. And it flows much more nicely.
> "LibreOffice" is hard to pronounce the French way because there are two
> (written) vowels next to each other. That's one thing the French language
> tries to avoid, by having special forms for the few adjectives that come
> before nouns that start with a vowel, like "bel", "vieil", and "nouvel". So
> LibreOffice doesn't really fit in with French pronunciation either...

> But you don't need professionals to know if a name sounds good. I'd say
> "Firefox" and "Inkscape" are great names, but I'm sure those projects didn't
> spend millions of dollars on coming up with a name. And just look at how the
> name "Google" came about: it was made up by a daughter of a mathematician.
>

> I liked it, too, at first, but I'm afraid that pronunciation will be an
> issue...
>
> Anyway, if nobody else thinks it's an issue, then it should stay.

Hmm, I joined the list to find out about compiling the source, but this
discussion took my interest. Apologies for butting in late.

Names are a hard thing, but one lesson I have learned in 30 years of
software development is: for widespread acceptance a good name matters
much more than good content. (Sad but true.)

Examples: "Object-oriented programming" : All the ideas were there in
Simula 67 (yes, that's 1967), but until the cool name, OOP, was
invented, no one took any notice. Then "Extreme programming", "Open
Office", "relational database" (just a cool name for the bad idea of
busting up all the objects and losing the natural hierarchies). I could
think of dozens if I spent another ten minutes at it.

Another key lesson: Insiders are very, VERY bad at picking good names
for their own 'children'.

This is not meant as an insult, but the key movers and shakers here, to
whom we all owe the very existence of this wonderful project, are most
likely the least able to judge a good name.

And "LibreOffice" is a very poor name.

Reasons:

1/ "Libre" is an insider's term. Ask any but a romance language speaker
or a free software supporter what it means. Seriously, ask your mum,
your boss, your students, the guy serving at the local deli. The name is
doomed to misunderstanding and obscurity. Geeks will give you lots of
good feedback and you'll judge you got it right, but you haven't, and
you need to actually try the little experiment I just gave if you want
to see why.

2/ As Mirek explains, the pronunciation breaks the rules, and showing
disrespect for the rules of the linguistic source of a term doesn't seem
like a sensitive or a politically wise thing to do.

3/ Also as Mirek points out, the adjacent vowels make the word hard to
roll off the tongue by a speaker of any language. (It occurs to me as I
write this that (2) and (3) could be fixed by calling it "OfficeLibre".)

Thus my only disagreement with Mirek's comments: "If nobody else thinks
it's an issue..." - the people here (again, with apologies) are all
self-selected for their in-depth knowledge of the field, love of the
software, love of the ideals, and understanding of the jargon. All of us
(myself included) are almost certain to have a useless opinion on what
would actually be a good name.

So, this is just a recommendation, but one which I know is worth
doubling the support base: Get a better name. Even something pedestrian
like "Free Office" would do much better. And of course, if someone could
conjure up that rare animal, the magic name, well who knows...?

And PS: Don't worry about having already announced the name: it was
stated it was temporary and it's a name destined for forgetability in
any case.

--
Ron House
Building Peace: http://peacelegacy.org
Australian Birds: http://wingedhearts.org
Principle of Goodness academic site: http://principleofgoodness.net
--
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yorick yorick
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

On Sunday 03 Oct 2010 14:35:19 Ron House wrote:

> On 02/10/10 23:41, Mirek M. wrote:
> > Well, "Open Office" was usually the spoken term used to refer to
> > OpenOffice.org, and I'd say that's much easier to pronounce than
> > LibreOffice. And it flows much more nicely.
> > "LibreOffice" is hard to pronounce the French way because there are two
> > (written) vowels next to each other. That's one thing the French language
> > tries to avoid, by having special forms for the few adjectives that come
> > before nouns that start with a vowel, like "bel", "vieil", and "nouvel".
> > So LibreOffice doesn't really fit in with French pronunciation either...
> >
> > But you don't need professionals to know if a name sounds good. I'd say
> > "Firefox" and "Inkscape" are great names, but I'm sure those projects
> > didn't spend millions of dollars on coming up with a name. And just look
> > at how the name "Google" came about: it was made up by a daughter of a
> > mathematician.
> >
> >
> > I liked it, too, at first, but I'm afraid that pronunciation will be an
> > issue...
> >
> > Anyway, if nobody else thinks it's an issue, then it should stay.
>
> Hmm, I joined the list to find out about compiling the source, but this
> discussion took my interest. Apologies for butting in late.
>
> Names are a hard thing, but one lesson I have learned in 30 years of
> software development is: for widespread acceptance a good name matters
> much more than good content. (Sad but true.)
>
> Examples: "Object-oriented programming" : All the ideas were there in
> Simula 67 (yes, that's 1967), but until the cool name, OOP, was
> invented, no one took any notice. Then "Extreme programming", "Open
> Office", "relational database" (just a cool name for the bad idea of
> busting up all the objects and losing the natural hierarchies). I could
> think of dozens if I spent another ten minutes at it.
>
> Another key lesson: Insiders are very, VERY bad at picking good names
> for their own 'children'.
>
> This is not meant as an insult, but the key movers and shakers here, to
> whom we all owe the very existence of this wonderful project, are most
> likely the least able to judge a good name.
>
> And "LibreOffice" is a very poor name.
>
> Reasons:
>
> 1/ "Libre" is an insider's term. Ask any but a romance language speaker
> or a free software supporter what it means. Seriously, ask your mum,
> your boss, your students, the guy serving at the local deli. The name is
> doomed to misunderstanding and obscurity. Geeks will give you lots of
> good feedback and you'll judge you got it right, but you haven't, and
> you need to actually try the little experiment I just gave if you want
> to see why.
>
> 2/ As Mirek explains, the pronunciation breaks the rules, and showing
> disrespect for the rules of the linguistic source of a term doesn't seem
> like a sensitive or a politically wise thing to do.
>
> 3/ Also as Mirek points out, the adjacent vowels make the word hard to
> roll off the tongue by a speaker of any language. (It occurs to me as I
> write this that (2) and (3) could be fixed by calling it "OfficeLibre".)
>
> Thus my only disagreement with Mirek's comments: "If nobody else thinks
> it's an issue..." - the people here (again, with apologies) are all
> self-selected for their in-depth knowledge of the field, love of the
> software, love of the ideals, and understanding of the jargon. All of us
> (myself included) are almost certain to have a useless opinion on what
> would actually be a good name.
>
> So, this is just a recommendation, but one which I know is worth
> doubling the support base: Get a better name. Even something pedestrian
> like "Free Office" would do much better. And of course, if someone could
> conjure up that rare animal, the magic name, well who knows...?
>
> And PS: Don't worry about having already announced the name: it was
> stated it was temporary and it's a name destined for forgetability in
> any case.

Ron speaks well, the only issue is coming up with something else.  It may
default to LibreOffice simply for lack of a better idea.

That would be tragic.  I wasn't going to comment on this until I came up with
a reasonable alternative that is not already encumbered in some way.  
Unfortunately I'm empty of ideas.

The other issue is of course is that in true FOSS fashion, if the decision was
to look elsewhere the argument would go on for months.   Sun hired a company
to do promotional work a year or two ago, perhaps we could ask them to come up
with a shortlist.... as a donation of course, looking to a possibility of paid
promotional work in the future.

I do however  like the short version: LibO

Cheers
GL


--
Graham Lauder,
OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html

OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.

INGOTs Assessor Trainer
(International Grades in Open Technologies)
www.theingots.org
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Antonio Olivares Antonio Olivares
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

In reply to this post by Ron House
--- On Sat, 10/2/10, Ron House <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Ron House <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] [GENERAL] New name
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 6:35 PM
> On 02/10/10 23:41, Mirek M. wrote:
>
> > Well, "Open Office" was usually the spoken term used
> to refer to
> > OpenOffice.org, and I'd say that's much easier to
> pronounce than
> > LibreOffice. And it flows much more nicely.
> > "LibreOffice" is hard to pronounce the French way
> because there are two
> > (written) vowels next to each other. That's one thing
> the French language
> > tries to avoid, by having special forms for the few
> adjectives that come
> > before nouns that start with a vowel, like "bel",
> "vieil", and "nouvel". So
> > LibreOffice doesn't really fit in with French
> pronunciation either...
>
> > But you don't need professionals to know if a name
> sounds good. I'd say
> > "Firefox" and "Inkscape" are great names, but I'm sure
> those projects didn't
> > spend millions of dollars on coming up with a name.
> And just look at how the
> > name "Google" came about: it was made up by a daughter
> of a mathematician.
> >
>
> > I liked it, too, at first, but I'm afraid that
> pronunciation will be an
> > issue...
> >
> > Anyway, if nobody else thinks it's an issue, then it
> should stay.
>
> Hmm, I joined the list to find out about compiling the
> source, but this discussion took my interest. Apologies for
> butting in late.
>
> Names are a hard thing, but one lesson I have learned in 30
> years of software development is: for widespread acceptance
> a good name matters much more than good content. (Sad but
> true.)
>
> Examples: "Object-oriented programming" : All the ideas
> were there in Simula 67 (yes, that's 1967), but until the
> cool name, OOP, was invented, no one took any notice. Then
> "Extreme programming", "Open Office", "relational database"
> (just a cool name for the bad idea of busting up all the
> objects and losing the natural hierarchies). I could think
> of dozens if I spent another ten minutes at it.
>
> Another key lesson: Insiders are very, VERY bad at picking
> good names for their own 'children'.
>
> This is not meant as an insult, but the key movers and
> shakers here, to whom we all owe the very existence of this
> wonderful project, are most likely the least able to judge a
> good name.
>
> And "LibreOffice" is a very poor name.
>
> Reasons:
>
> 1/ "Libre" is an insider's term. Ask any but a romance
> language speaker or a free software supporter what it means.
> Seriously, ask your mum, your boss, your students, the guy
> serving at the local deli. The name is doomed to
> misunderstanding and obscurity. Geeks will give you lots of
> good feedback and you'll judge you got it right, but you
> haven't, and you need to actually try the little experiment
> I just gave if you want to see why.
>
> 2/ As Mirek explains, the pronunciation breaks the rules,
> and showing disrespect for the rules of the linguistic
> source of a term doesn't seem like a sensitive or a
> politically wise thing to do.
>
> 3/ Also as Mirek points out, the adjacent vowels make the
> word hard to roll off the tongue by a speaker of any
> language. (It occurs to me as I write this that (2) and (3)
> could be fixed by calling it "OfficeLibre".)
>
> Thus my only disagreement with Mirek's comments: "If nobody
> else thinks it's an issue..." - the people here (again, with
> apologies) are all self-selected for their in-depth
> knowledge of the field, love of the software, love of the
> ideals, and understanding of the jargon. All of us (myself
> included) are almost certain to have a useless opinion on
> what would actually be a good name.
>
> So, this is just a recommendation, but one which I know is
> worth doubling the support base: Get a better name. Even
> something pedestrian like "Free Office" would do much
> better. And of course, if someone could conjure up that rare
> animal, the magic name, well who knows...?
>
> And PS: Don't worry about having already announced the
> name: it was stated it was temporary and it's a name
> destined for forgetability in any case.
>
> -- Ron Hous

I also am sorry to butt in this conversation.  But IMHO, the name does no
t matter.  It is the software, the freedom to work with it.  This softw
are has been created before a major catastrophe occurs, i.e, Oracle a big c
ompany controls|controlled OpenOffice.org as soon as it bought Sun Microsys
tems.  Now they have killed OpenSolaris, their next target would have bee
n, ..., yes OpenOffice.  Before that occured, some kind people have decid
ed to protect the software before that happens. 

LibreOffice, is an office suite that is "Libre", meaning free, not only fre
e in speech but free in mostly every aspect like free and open source.  I
t is also "Libre", meaning free from control of a single company or a singl
e person.  It champions free software and will continue what OpenOffice.o
rg started a while back. 

The name should not matter, what matters is that users of OpenSource/Free S
oftware folks have an office suite that is not tied up to a single company
or entity that will control the code.

Regards,

Antonio

Happily using Free and Open Software for some time.
Fedora 12/Fedora 13/Slackware 13.1/FreeBSD 8.1/...
olivares@darkstar:~$ uname -r
2.6.35.7-smp





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Ron House Ron House
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

On 03/10/10 12:00, Antonio Olivares wrote:
> --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Ron House<[hidden email]>  wrote:

>> Names are a hard thing, but one lesson I have learned in 30
>> years of software development is: for widespread acceptance
>> a good name matters much more than good content. (Sad but
>> true.)
>>
>> Examples: "Object-oriented programming" : All the ideas
>> were there in Simula 67 (yes, that's 1967), but until the
>> cool name, OOP, was invented, no one took any notice. Then
>> "Extreme programming", "Open Office", "relational database"
>> (just a cool name for the bad idea of busting up all the
>> objects and losing the natural hierarchies). I could think
>> of dozens if I spent another ten minutes at it.
>>
>> Another key lesson: Insiders are very, VERY bad at picking
>> good names for their own 'children'.
>>
>> This is not meant as an insult, but the key movers and
>> shakers here, to whom we all owe the very existence of this
>> wonderful project, are most likely the least able to judge a
>> good name.
>>
>> And "LibreOffice" is a very poor name.
>>
>> Reasons:
>>
>> 1/ "Libre" is an insider's term. Ask any but a romance
>> language speaker or a free software supporter what it means.
>> Seriously, ask your mum, your boss, your students, the guy
>> serving at the local deli. The name is doomed to
>> misunderstanding and obscurity. Geeks will give you lots of
>> good feedback and you'll judge you got it right, but you
>> haven't, and you need to actually try the little experiment
>> I just gave if you want to see why.
>>
>> 2/ As Mirek explains, the pronunciation breaks the rules,
>> and showing disrespect for the rules of the linguistic
>> source of a term doesn't seem like a sensitive or a
>> politically wise thing to do.
>>
>> 3/ Also as Mirek points out, the adjacent vowels make the
>> word hard to roll off the tongue by a speaker of any
>> language. (It occurs to me as I write this that (2) and (3)
>> could be fixed by calling it "OfficeLibre".)
>>
>> Thus my only disagreement with Mirek's comments: "If nobody
>> else thinks it's an issue..." - the people here (again, with
>> apologies) are all self-selected for their in-depth
>> knowledge of the field, love of the software, love of the
>> ideals, and understanding of the jargon. All of us (myself
>> included) are almost certain to have a useless opinion on
>> what would actually be a good name.
>>
>> So, this is just a recommendation, but one which I know is
>> worth doubling the support base: Get a better name. Even
>> something pedestrian like "Free Office" would do much
>> better. And of course, if someone could conjure up that rare
>> animal, the magic name, well who knows...?
>>
>> And PS: Don't worry about having already announced the
>> name: it was stated it was temporary and it's a name
>> destined for forgetability in any case.
>>
>> -- Ron Hous
>
> I also am sorry to butt in this conversation.  But IMHO, the name does no
> t matter.  It is the software, the freedom to work with it.  This softw
> are has been created before a major catastrophe occurs, i.e, Oracle a big c
> ompany controls|controlled OpenOffice.org as soon as it bought Sun Microsys
> tems.  Now they have killed OpenSolaris, their next target would have bee
> n, ..., yes OpenOffice.  Before that occured, some kind people have decid
> ed to protect the software before that happens.

Absolutely the right policy. 100% support from me for this wonderful
development.

> LibreOffice, is an office suite that is "Libre", meaning free, not only fre
> e in speech but free in mostly every aspect like free and open source.  I
> t is also "Libre", meaning free from control of a single company or a singl
> e person.  It champions free software and will continue what OpenOffice.o
> rg started a while back.

And there you have the problem: You have to explain it. Good marketing
requires that you engage with customers' existing understanding and
expectations. "Well, you see, the name come from..." "Yeah, forget it."

> The name should not matter, what matters is that users of OpenSource/Free S
> oftware folks have an office suite that is not tied up to a single company
> or entity that will control the code.
>
> Antonio

Again, exactly correct: the name _should_ not matter. Unfortunately
names _do_ matter. Bad names do and have sunk good projects, whilst good
names have successfully sold bad projects.

--
Ron House
Building Peace: http://peacelegacy.org
Australian Birds: http://wingedhearts.org
Principle of Goodness academic site: http://principleofgoodness.net
--
To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to [hidden email]
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yorick yorick
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

In reply to this post by Antonio Olivares
On Sunday 03 Oct 2010 15:00:04 Antonio Olivares wrote:

> --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Ron House <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > From: Ron House <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] [GENERAL] New name
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 6:35 PM
> >
> > On 02/10/10 23:41, Mirek M. wrote:
> > > Well, "Open Office" was usually the spoken term used
> >
> > to refer to
> >
> > > OpenOffice.org, and I'd say that's much easier to
> >
> > pronounce than
> >
> > > LibreOffice. And it flows much more nicely.
> > > "LibreOffice" is hard to pronounce the French way
> >
> > because there are two
> >
> > > (written) vowels next to each other. That's one thing
> >
> > the French language
> >
> > > tries to avoid, by having special forms for the few
> >
> > adjectives that come
> >
> > > before nouns that start with a vowel, like "bel",
> >
> > "vieil", and "nouvel". So
> >
> > > LibreOffice doesn't really fit in with French
> >
> > pronunciation either...
> >
> > > But you don't need professionals to know if a name
> >
> > sounds good. I'd say
> >
> > > "Firefox" and "Inkscape" are great names, but I'm sure
> >
> > those projects didn't
> >
> > > spend millions of dollars on coming up with a name.
> >
> > And just look at how the
> >
> > > name "Google" came about: it was made up by a daughter
> >
> > of a mathematician.
> >
> > > I liked it, too, at first, but I'm afraid that
> >
> > pronunciation will be an
> >
> > > issue...
> > >
> > > Anyway, if nobody else thinks it's an issue, then it
> >
> > should stay.
> >
> > Hmm, I joined the list to find out about compiling the
> > source, but this discussion took my interest. Apologies for
> > butting in late.
> >
> > Names are a hard thing, but one lesson I have learned in 30
> > years of software development is: for widespread acceptance
> > a good name matters much more than good content. (Sad but
> > true.)
> >
> > Examples: "Object-oriented programming" : All the ideas
> > were there in Simula 67 (yes, that's 1967), but until the
> > cool name, OOP, was invented, no one took any notice. Then
> > "Extreme programming", "Open Office", "relational database"
> > (just a cool name for the bad idea of busting up all the
> > objects and losing the natural hierarchies). I could think
> > of dozens if I spent another ten minutes at it.
> >
> > Another key lesson: Insiders are very, VERY bad at picking
> > good names for their own 'children'.
> >
> > This is not meant as an insult, but the key movers and
> > shakers here, to whom we all owe the very existence of this
> > wonderful project, are most likely the least able to judge a
> > good name.
> >
> > And "LibreOffice" is a very poor name.
> >
> > Reasons:
> >
> > 1/ "Libre" is an insider's term. Ask any but a romance
> > language speaker or a free software supporter what it means.
> > Seriously, ask your mum, your boss, your students, the guy
> > serving at the local deli. The name is doomed to
> > misunderstanding and obscurity. Geeks will give you lots of
> > good feedback and you'll judge you got it right, but you
> > haven't, and you need to actually try the little experiment
> > I just gave if you want to see why.
> >
> > 2/ As Mirek explains, the pronunciation breaks the rules,
> > and showing disrespect for the rules of the linguistic
> > source of a term doesn't seem like a sensitive or a
> > politically wise thing to do.
> >
> > 3/ Also as Mirek points out, the adjacent vowels make the
> > word hard to roll off the tongue by a speaker of any
> > language. (It occurs to me as I write this that (2) and (3)
> > could be fixed by calling it "OfficeLibre".)
> >
> > Thus my only disagreement with Mirek's comments: "If nobody
> > else thinks it's an issue..." - the people here (again, with
> > apologies) are all self-selected for their in-depth
> > knowledge of the field, love of the software, love of the
> > ideals, and understanding of the jargon. All of us (myself
> > included) are almost certain to have a useless opinion on
> > what would actually be a good name.
> >
> > So, this is just a recommendation, but one which I know is
> > worth doubling the support base: Get a better name. Even
> > something pedestrian like "Free Office" would do much
> > better. And of course, if someone could conjure up that rare
> > animal, the magic name, well who knows...?
> >
> > And PS: Don't worry about having already announced the
> > name: it was stated it was temporary and it's a name
> > destined for forgetability in any case.
> >
> > -- Ron Hous
>
> I also am sorry to butt in this conversation.  But IMHO, the name does no
> t matter.  It is the software, the freedom to work with it.  This softw
> are has been created before a major catastrophe occurs, i.e, Oracle a big c
> ompany controls|controlled OpenOffice.org as soon as it bought Sun Microsys
> tems.  Now they have killed OpenSolaris, their next target would have bee
> n, ..., yes OpenOffice.  Before that occured, some kind people have decid
> ed to protect the software before that happens.
>
> LibreOffice, is an office suite that is "Libre", meaning free, not only fre
> e in speech but free in mostly every aspect like free and open source.  I
> t is also "Libre", meaning free from control of a single company or a singl
> e person.  It champions free software and will continue what OpenOffice.o
> rg started a while back.
>
> The name should not matter, what matters is that users of OpenSource/Free S
> oftware folks have an office suite that is not tied up to a single company
> or entity that will control the code.
>
> Regards,
>
> Antonio
>
> Happily using Free and Open Software for some time.
> Fedora 12/Fedora 13/Slackware 13.1/FreeBSD 8.1/...
> olivares@darkstar:~$ uname -r
> 2.6.35.7-smp


Antonio,
You in fact wear the best argument for a unique name in your sig.  Who is
arguably the most successful Open Source company:  Red Hat

What in gods name does a Red Hat have to do with software other than give them
a really cool logo.

This discussion is indicative, much of marketing is about creating buzz.  I
would like a name that leads to a logo that is sexy enough for people to use
as a desktop background, Redhat does and Fedora and Firefox.  I was looking at
the "LibO" abbreviation and the thing that I suddenly saw was LbD, or LBD
which is abrreviation for "Little Black Dress", suddenly I see a very cool
logo and marketing campaign and a buzz.  One great thing is that LBD is cool
to both men and women, both groups tend to like the way they look.

What has it to do with Office suites? About the same amount that Computer
Operating systems have to do with Hats.

But dang what a buzz it would cause:  An office suite that was sexy, now THAT
would be cool to market.  

Cheers
GL

--
Graham Lauder,
OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html

OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.

INGOTs Assessor Trainer
(International Grades in Open Technologies)
www.theingots.org
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Alexandro Colorado Alexandro Colorado
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

In reply to this post by Ron House
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 1:06 AM, Ron House <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 03/10/10 12:00, Antonio Olivares wrote:
>
>> --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Ron House<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>
>  Names are a hard thing, but one lesson I have learned in 30
>>> years of software development is: for widespread acceptance
>>> a good name matters much more than good content. (Sad but
>>> true.)
>>>
>>> Examples: "Object-oriented programming" : All the ideas
>>> were there in Simula 67 (yes, that's 1967), but until the
>>> cool name, OOP, was invented, no one took any notice. Then
>>> "Extreme programming", "Open Office", "relational database"
>>> (just a cool name for the bad idea of busting up all the
>>> objects and losing the natural hierarchies). I could think
>>> of dozens if I spent another ten minutes at it.
>>>
>>> Another key lesson: Insiders are very, VERY bad at picking
>>> good names for their own 'children'.
>>>
>>> This is not meant as an insult, but the key movers and
>>> shakers here, to whom we all owe the very existence of this
>>> wonderful project, are most likely the least able to judge a
>>> good name.
>>>
>>> And "LibreOffice" is a very poor name.
>>>
>>> Reasons:
>>>
>>> 1/ "Libre" is an insider's term. Ask any but a romance
>>> language speaker or a free software supporter what it means.
>>> Seriously, ask your mum, your boss, your students, the guy
>>> serving at the local deli. The name is doomed to
>>> misunderstanding and obscurity. Geeks will give you lots of
>>> good feedback and you'll judge you got it right, but you
>>> haven't, and you need to actually try the little experiment
>>> I just gave if you want to see why.
>>>
>>> 2/ As Mirek explains, the pronunciation breaks the rules,
>>> and showing disrespect for the rules of the linguistic
>>> source of a term doesn't seem like a sensitive or a
>>> politically wise thing to do.
>>>
>>> 3/ Also as Mirek points out, the adjacent vowels make the
>>> word hard to roll off the tongue by a speaker of any
>>> language. (It occurs to me as I write this that (2) and (3)
>>> could be fixed by calling it "OfficeLibre".)
>>>
>>> Thus my only disagreement with Mirek's comments: "If nobody
>>> else thinks it's an issue..." - the people here (again, with
>>> apologies) are all self-selected for their in-depth
>>> knowledge of the field, love of the software, love of the
>>> ideals, and understanding of the jargon. All of us (myself
>>> included) are almost certain to have a useless opinion on
>>> what would actually be a good name.
>>>
>>> So, this is just a recommendation, but one which I know is
>>> worth doubling the support base: Get a better name. Even
>>> something pedestrian like "Free Office" would do much
>>> better. And of course, if someone could conjure up that rare
>>> animal, the magic name, well who knows...?
>>>
>>> And PS: Don't worry about having already announced the
>>> name: it was stated it was temporary and it's a name
>>> destined for forgetability in any case.
>>>
>>> -- Ron Hous
>>>
>>
>> I also am sorry to butt in this conversation.  But IMHO, the name does n
o
>> t matter.  It is the software, the freedom to work with it.  This softw
>> are has been created before a major catastrophe occurs, i.e, Oracle a bi
g
>> c
>> ompany controls|controlled OpenOffice.org as soon as it bought Sun
>> Microsys
>> tems.  Now they have killed OpenSolaris, their next target would have be
e
>> n, ..., yes OpenOffice.  Before that occured, some kind people have deci
d

>> ed to protect the software before that happens.
>>
>
> Absolutely the right policy. 100% support from me for this wonderful
> development.
>
>
>  LibreOffice, is an office suite that is "Libre", meaning free, not only
>> fre
>> e in speech but free in mostly every aspect like free and open source.
I
>> t is also "Libre", meaning free from control of a single company or a
>> singl
>> e person.  It champions free software and will continue what OpenOffice.
o
>> rg started a while back.
>>
>
> And there you have the problem: You have to explain it. Good marketing
> requires that you engage with customers' existing understanding and
> expectations. "Well, you see, the name come from..." "Yeah, forget it."
>
>  The name should not matter, what matters is that users of OpenSource/Fre
e
>> S
>> oftware folks have an office suite that is not tied up to a single compa
ny

>> or entity that will control the code.
>>
>> Antonio
>>
>
> Again, exactly correct: the name _should_ not matter. Unfortunately names
> _do_ matter. Bad names do and have sunk good projects, whilst good names
> have successfully sold bad projects.
>
>
> --
> Ron House
> Building Peace: http://peacelegacy.org
> Australian Birds: http://wingedhearts.org
> Principle of Goodness academic site: http://principleofgoodness.net
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>
For the record LibreOffice is perfect in Italian, Spanish and Portguese and
most Romantic languages so I guess just certain language could struggle wit
h
the pronuciation. Also Libre come from FLOSS, most people know and pronounc
e
Free/Libre/Open Source Software with no issue including americans.

Libre means Free from freedom, so there is really a more exact cognotaion
since Open Source vs Free Software, LibreOffice get us back to freedom and
not just being open.

--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org

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Jean Weber Jean Weber
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

On Sun, 2010-10-03 at 01:52 -0500, Alexandro Colorado wrote:

> Also Libre come from FLOSS, most people know and pronounce
> Free/Libre/Open Source Software with no issue including americans.

Most people have never heard of FLOSS, don't know what it means, and
don't care. But I don't think that's relevant here.

To whoever in this thread said, "And there you have the problem: You
have to explain it. Good marketing requires that you engage with
customers' existing understanding and expectations." : I don't see why
anyone needs to explain the name (unlike OpenOffice.org, which looks
like a URL). Good marketing can make a name memorable even if it's
totally outside customers' expectations. Does anyone have to explain
what "Firefox" means? Other than to say "it's a web browser"? Does it
mean anything? Who cares? How about "Ubuntu"? Yes, it has a meaning, and
some people wonder and we tell them and they say "cool" and that's that.

>
> Libre means Free from freedom, so there is really a more exact cognotaion
> since Open Source vs Free Software, LibreOffice get us back to freedom and
> not just being open.

I agree totally. In those cases where we might have to explain the name,
we say "Libre means Free". What's the big deal? It's a good name. Not as
catchy as Firefox or Ubuntu, but a good name.

--Jean



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Michèle Garoche Michèle Garoche
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

In reply to this post by yorick

On 3 oct. 10, at 08:21, Graham Lauder wrote:

> On Sunday 03 Oct 2010 15:00:04 Antonio Olivares wrote:
>> --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Ron House <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> From: Ron House <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] [GENERAL] New name
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 6:35 PM
>>>
>>> On 02/10/10 23:41, Mirek M. wrote:
>>>> Well, "Open Office" was usually the spoken term used
>>>
>>> to refer to
>>>
>>>> OpenOffice.org, and I'd say that's much easier to
>>>
>>> pronounce than
>>>
>>>> LibreOffice. And it flows much more nicely.
>>>> "LibreOffice" is hard to pronounce the French way
>>>
>>> because there are two
>>>
>>>> (written) vowels next to each other. That's one thing
>>>
>>> the French language
>>>
>>>> tries to avoid, by having special forms for the few
>>>
>>> adjectives that come
>>>
>>>> before nouns that start with a vowel, like "bel",
>>>
>>> "vieil", and "nouvel". So
>>>
>>>> LibreOffice doesn't really fit in with French
>>>
>>> pronunciation either...
It fits perfectly with French language. The last e of Libre is not
pronounced (mute e). That is the whole thing is pronounced as
Libroffice (or librofis - last e not pronounced again).
But frankly I don't understand this discussion. Which language will be

used at most in 10 years? Probably not a western language and probably

not written in roman characters.
Meanwhile, users as me wait for bug fixes.

Michèle Garoche

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Jean Weber Jean Weber
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

In reply to this post by yorick
On Sun, 2010-10-03 at 19:21 +1300, Graham Lauder wrote:

> Antonio,
> You in fact wear the best argument for a unique name in your sig.  Who is
> arguably the most successful Open Source company:  Red Hat
>
> What in gods name does a Red Hat have to do with software other than give them
> a really cool logo.
>
> This discussion is indicative, much of marketing is about creating buzz.  I
> would like a name that leads to a logo that is sexy enough for people to use
> as a desktop background, Redhat does and Fedora and Firefox.  I was looking at
> the "LibO" abbreviation and the thing that I suddenly saw was LbD, or LBD
> which is abrreviation for "Little Black Dress", suddenly I see a very cool
> logo and marketing campaign and a buzz.  One great thing is that LBD is cool
> to both men and women, both groups tend to like the way they look.
>
> What has it to do with Office suites? About the same amount that Computer
> Operating systems have to do with Hats.
>
> But dang what a buzz it would cause:  An office suite that was sexy, now THAT
> would be cool to market.  
>
> Cheers
> GL

Graham, you & I think alike! But I should have thought of Red Hat when I
was hurling out examples. And... Hmmm.... a sexy office suite? I'm sure
someone could manage that, without it being also sexist.

Cheers, Jean

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

Hi :-) Is it considered likely that Oracle will contribute the
OpenOffice.org name, domain name, etc? It would be much better if
there was no need for re-branding...

David
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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

In reply to this post by Ron House

> And there you have the problem: You have to explain it. Good marketing
> requires that you engage with customers' existing understanding and
> expectations. "Well, you see, the name come from..." "Yeah, forget it."
>
>> The name should not matter, what matters is that users of
>> OpenSource/Free S
>> oftware folks have an office suite that is not tied up to a single
>> company
>> or entity that will control the code.
>>
>> Antonio
>
> Again, exactly correct: the name _should_ not matter. Unfortunately
> names _do_ matter. Bad names do and have sunk good projects, whilst
> good names have successfully sold bad projects.
>
Hi Ron:

Actually, I think that you will find that most latin-based languages
will have not problems with the significance or pronunciation of the
word "Libre". If you then take into account people who have studied a
second latin-base language, they would have studied the word "libre" as
part of their core vocabulary list. I am not sure of the other language
base pronunciation of "libre". I think is this is the real issue that
you are raising, the pronunciation. However, I don't believe it to be
such a large problem. Yes, if you count the number of people who would
need to hear an example of the accepted pronunciation of "LibreOffice"
(as pointed out in one of the responses, the French version would
approach more of the phonetic version of "leebrohfece" (for English
speaking people), the numbers could be considered high. But in the
context of people having enough cultural knowledge to pronounce the word
without any coaching is probably quite extensive by comparison.

So, I agree with one of the responders who suggested that we could
perhaps post a "sound" file (let's keep it as an OSS format) on the main
Mageia page, in both male/female versions (hey, let's get a younger
boy/girl version too!), of the accepted pronunciation of the LibreOffice
suite. We can all remember the "Linux" pronunciation arguments, and in
the end, the father of Linux decreed: "Pronounce it like you want!" It
is just great that you can advocate its use to anyone who is willing to
listen, regardless of the pronunciation.

Cheers

Marc
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Volker Merschmann Volker Merschmann
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

In reply to this post by davidnelson
Hi David,

2010/10/3 Traduction.BIZ <[hidden email]>:
> Hi :-) Is it considered likely that Oracle will contribute the
> OpenOffice.org name, domain name, etc? It would be much better if
> there was no need for re-branding...
>
They are invited to join us and bringing back the namee-rights to the
community. In their first reaction we did not read anything in this
direction but the invitiation is still there.

Volker


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Michèle Garoche Michèle Garoche
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

In reply to this post by marcpare4

On 3 oct. 10, at 10:28, Marc Paré wrote:

>
>> And there you have the problem: You have to explain it. Good
>> marketing requires that you engage with customers' existing
>> understanding and expectations. "Well, you see, the name come
>> from..." "Yeah, forget it."
>>
>>> The name should not matter, what matters is that users of
>>> OpenSource/Free S
>>> oftware folks have an office suite that is not tied up to a single

>>> company
>>> or entity that will control the code.
>>>
>>> Antonio
>>
>> Again, exactly correct: the name _should_ not matter. Unfortunately

>> names _do_ matter. Bad names do and have sunk good projects, whilst

>> good names have successfully sold bad projects.
>>
> Hi Ron:
>
> Actually, I think that you will find that most latin-based languages

> will have not problems with the significance or pronunciation of the

> word "Libre". If you then take into account people who have studied

> a second latin-base language, they would have studied the word
> "libre" as part of their core vocabulary list. I am not sure of the

> other language base pronunciation of "libre". I think is this is the

> real issue that you are raising, the pronunciation. However, I don't

> believe it to be such a large problem. Yes, if you count the number

> of people who would need to hear an example of the accepted
> pronunciation of "LibreOffice" (as pointed out in one of the
> responses, the French version would approach more of the phonetic
> version of "leebrohfece" (for English speaking people), the numbers

> could be considered high. But in the context of people having enough

> cultural knowledge to pronounce the word without any coaching is
> probably quite extensive by comparison.
>
> So, I agree with one of the responders who suggested that we could
> perhaps post a "sound" file (let's keep it as an OSS format) on the

> main Mageia page, in both male/female versions (hey, let's get a
> younger boy/girl version too!), of the accepted pronunciation of the

> LibreOffice suite. We can all remember the "Linux" pronunciation
> arguments, and in the end, the father of Linux decreed: "Pronounce
> it like you want!" It is just great that you can advocate its use to

> anyone who is willing to listen, regardless of the pronunciation.
In French that sounds like that:
(m4a)





Michèle

>
> Cheers
>
> Marc
> --
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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

  Le 2010-10-03 05:39, Michèle Garoche a écrit :

>
> On 3 oct. 10, at 10:28, Marc Paré wrote:
>
>>
>>> And there you have the problem: You have to explain it. Good
>>> marketing requires that you engage with customers' existing
>>> understanding and expectations. "Well, you see, the name come
>>> from..." "Yeah, forget it."
>>>
>>>> The name should not matter, what matters is that users of
>>>> OpenSource/Free S
>>>> oftware folks have an office suite that is not tied up to a single
>
>>>> company
>>>> or entity that will control the code.
>>>>
>>>> Antonio
>>>
>>> Again, exactly correct: the name _should_ not matter. Unfortunately
>
>>> names _do_ matter. Bad names do and have sunk good projects, whilst
>
>>> good names have successfully sold bad projects.
>>>
>> Hi Ron:
>>
>> Actually, I think that you will find that most latin-based languages
>
>> will have not problems with the significance or pronunciation of the
>
>> word "Libre". If you then take into account people who have studied
>
>> a second latin-base language, they would have studied the word
>> "libre" as part of their core vocabulary list. I am not sure of the
>
>> other language base pronunciation of "libre". I think is this is the
>
>> real issue that you are raising, the pronunciation. However, I don't
>
>> believe it to be such a large problem. Yes, if you count the number
>
>> of people who would need to hear an example of the accepted
>> pronunciation of "LibreOffice" (as pointed out in one of the
>> responses, the French version would approach more of the phonetic
>> version of "leebrohfece" (for English speaking people), the numbers
>
>> could be considered high. But in the context of people having enough
>
>> cultural knowledge to pronounce the word without any coaching is
>> probably quite extensive by comparison.
>>
>> So, I agree with one of the responders who suggested that we could
>> perhaps post a "sound" file (let's keep it as an OSS format) on the
>
>> main Mageia page, in both male/female versions (hey, let's get a
>> younger boy/girl version too!), of the accepted pronunciation of the
>
>> LibreOffice suite. We can all remember the "Linux" pronunciation
>> arguments, and in the end, the father of Linux decreed: "Pronounce it
>> like you want!" It is just great that you can advocate its use to
>
>> anyone who is willing to listen, regardless of the pronunciation.
> In French that sounds like that:
> (m4a)
>
>
>
>
>
> Michèle
>
Désolé Michèle:

The ML does not permit attachments. Perhaps if it were posted in a site?

Merci

Marc
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Michèle Garoche Michèle Garoche
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Re: [GENERAL] New name


On 3 oct. 10, at 11:44, Marc Paré wrote:

> Le 2010-10-03 05:39, Michèle Garoche a écrit :
>>
>> On 3 oct. 10, at 10:28, Marc Paré wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> And there you have the problem: You have to explain it. Good
>>>> marketing requires that you engage with customers' existing
>>>> understanding and expectations. "Well, you see, the name come
>>>> from..." "Yeah, forget it."
>>>>
>>>>> The name should not matter, what matters is that users of
>>>>> OpenSource/Free S
>>>>> oftware folks have an office suite that is not tied up to a single
>>
>>>>> company
>>>>> or entity that will control the code.
>>>>>
>>>>> Antonio
>>>>
>>>> Again, exactly correct: the name _should_ not matter. Unfortunately
>>
>>>> names _do_ matter. Bad names do and have sunk good projects, whilst
>>
>>>> good names have successfully sold bad projects.
>>>>
>>> Hi Ron:
>>>
>>> Actually, I think that you will find that most latin-based languages
>>
>>> will have not problems with the significance or pronunciation of the
>>
>>> word "Libre". If you then take into account people who have studied
>>
>>> a second latin-base language, they would have studied the word
>>> "libre" as part of their core vocabulary list. I am not sure of the
>>
>>> other language base pronunciation of "libre". I think is this is the
>>
>>> real issue that you are raising, the pronunciation. However, I don't
>>
>>> believe it to be such a large problem. Yes, if you count the number
>>
>>> of people who would need to hear an example of the accepted
>>> pronunciation of "LibreOffice" (as pointed out in one of the
>>> responses, the French version would approach more of the phonetic

>>> version of "leebrohfece" (for English speaking people), the numbers
>>
>>> could be considered high. But in the context of people having enough
>>
>>> cultural knowledge to pronounce the word without any coaching is
>>> probably quite extensive by comparison.
>>>
>>> So, I agree with one of the responders who suggested that we could

>>> perhaps post a "sound" file (let's keep it as an OSS format) on the
>>
>>> main Mageia page, in both male/female versions (hey, let's get a
>>> younger boy/girl version too!), of the accepted pronunciation of the
>>
>>> LibreOffice suite. We can all remember the "Linux" pronunciation
>>> arguments, and in the end, the father of Linux decreed: "Pronounce

>>> it like you want!" It is just great that you can advocate its use to
>>
>>> anyone who is willing to listen, regardless of the pronunciation.
>> In French that sounds like that:
>> (m4a)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michèle
>>
> Désolé Michèle:
>
> The ML does not permit attachments. Perhaps if it were posted in a
> site?
Sure, let me some time to do it. I will then report the url.

Michèle

>
> Merci
>
> Marc
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Michèle Garoche Michèle Garoche
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

In reply to this post by marcpare4

On 3 oct. 10, at 11:44, Marc Paré wrote:

> Le 2010-10-03 05:39, Michèle Garoche a écrit :
>>
>> On 3 oct. 10, at 10:28, Marc Paré wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> And there you have the problem: You have to explain it. Good
>>>> marketing requires that you engage with customers' existing
>>>> understanding and expectations. "Well, you see, the name come
>>>> from..." "Yeah, forget it."
>>>>
>>>>> The name should not matter, what matters is that users of
>>>>> OpenSource/Free S
>>>>> oftware folks have an office suite that is not tied up to a single
>>
>>>>> company
>>>>> or entity that will control the code.
>>>>>
>>>>> Antonio
>>>>
>>>> Again, exactly correct: the name _should_ not matter. Unfortunately
>>
>>>> names _do_ matter. Bad names do and have sunk good projects, whilst
>>
>>>> good names have successfully sold bad projects.
>>>>
>>> Hi Ron:
>>>
>>> Actually, I think that you will find that most latin-based languages
>>
>>> will have not problems with the significance or pronunciation of the
>>
>>> word "Libre". If you then take into account people who have studied
>>
>>> a second latin-base language, they would have studied the word
>>> "libre" as part of their core vocabulary list. I am not sure of the
>>
>>> other language base pronunciation of "libre". I think is this is the
>>
>>> real issue that you are raising, the pronunciation. However, I don't
>>
>>> believe it to be such a large problem. Yes, if you count the number
>>
>>> of people who would need to hear an example of the accepted
>>> pronunciation of "LibreOffice" (as pointed out in one of the
>>> responses, the French version would approach more of the phonetic

>>> version of "leebrohfece" (for English speaking people), the numbers
>>
>>> could be considered high. But in the context of people having enough
>>
>>> cultural knowledge to pronounce the word without any coaching is
>>> probably quite extensive by comparison.
>>>
>>> So, I agree with one of the responders who suggested that we could

>>> perhaps post a "sound" file (let's keep it as an OSS format) on the
>>
>>> main Mageia page, in both male/female versions (hey, let's get a
>>> younger boy/girl version too!), of the accepted pronunciation of the
>>
>>> LibreOffice suite. We can all remember the "Linux" pronunciation
>>> arguments, and in the end, the father of Linux decreed: "Pronounce

>>> it like you want!" It is just great that you can advocate its use to
>>
>>> anyone who is willing to listen, regardless of the pronunciation.
>> In French that sounds like that:
>> (m4a)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michèle
>>
> Désolé Michèle:
>
> The ML does not permit attachments. Perhaps if it were posted in a
> site?
Here you are:
http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/openoffice/index.shtml.shtml
http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/openoffice/index.shtml.en
http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/openoffice/index.shtml.fr

Michèle
>
> Merci
>
> Marc
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Michèle Garoche Michèle Garoche
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Re: [GENERAL] New name


On 3 oct. 10, at 12:09, Michèle Garoche wrote:

>
> On 3 oct. 10, at 11:44, Marc Paré wrote:
>
>> Le 2010-10-03 05:39, Michèle Garoche a écrit :
>>>
>>> On 3 oct. 10, at 10:28, Marc Paré wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> And there you have the problem: You have to explain it. Good
>>>>> marketing requires that you engage with customers' existing
>>>>> understanding and expectations. "Well, you see, the name come
>>>>> from..." "Yeah, forget it."
>>>>>
>>>>>> The name should not matter, what matters is that users of
>>>>>> OpenSource/Free S
>>>>>> oftware folks have an office suite that is not tied up to a
>>>>>> single
>>>
>>>>>> company
>>>>>> or entity that will control the code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Antonio
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, exactly correct: the name _should_ not matter.
>>>>> Unfortunately
>>>
>>>>> names _do_ matter. Bad names do and have sunk good projects,
>>>>> whilst
>>>
>>>>> good names have successfully sold bad projects.
>>>>>
>>>> Hi Ron:
>>>>
>>>> Actually, I think that you will find that most latin-based
>>>> languages
>>>
>>>> will have not problems with the significance or pronunciation of

>>>> the
>>>
>>>> word "Libre". If you then take into account people who have studied
>>>
>>>> a second latin-base language, they would have studied the word
>>>> "libre" as part of their core vocabulary list. I am not sure of the
>>>
>>>> other language base pronunciation of "libre". I think is this is

>>>> the
>>>
>>>> real issue that you are raising, the pronunciation. However, I
>>>> don't
>>>
>>>> believe it to be such a large problem. Yes, if you count the number
>>>
>>>> of people who would need to hear an example of the accepted
>>>> pronunciation of "LibreOffice" (as pointed out in one of the
>>>> responses, the French version would approach more of the phonetic
>
>>>> version of "leebrohfece" (for English speaking people), the numbers
>>>
>>>> could be considered high. But in the context of people having
>>>> enough
>>>
>>>> cultural knowledge to pronounce the word without any coaching is
>>>> probably quite extensive by comparison.
>>>>
>>>> So, I agree with one of the responders who suggested that we could
>
>>>> perhaps post a "sound" file (let's keep it as an OSS format) on the
>>>
>>>> main Mageia page, in both male/female versions (hey, let's get a
>>>> younger boy/girl version too!), of the accepted pronunciation of

>>>> the
>>>
>>>> LibreOffice suite. We can all remember the "Linux" pronunciation
>>>> arguments, and in the end, the father of Linux decreed: "Pronounce
>
>>>> it like you want!" It is just great that you can advocate its use

>>>> to
>>>
>>>> anyone who is willing to listen, regardless of the pronunciation.
>>> In French that sounds like that:
>>> (m4a)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michèle
>>>
>> Désolé Michèle:
>>
>> The ML does not permit attachments. Perhaps if it were posted in a
>> site?
> Here you are:
> http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/openoffice/index.shtml.shtml
> http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/openoffice/index.shtml.en
> http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/openoffice/index.shtml.fr
Sorry my bad; better with LibreOffice as title and subdirectory:
http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/libreoffice/index.shtml.shtml
http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/libreoffice/index.shtml.en
http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/libreoffice/index.shtml.fr

Old links are removed

Michèle

>
> Michèle
>>
>> Merci
>>
>> Marc
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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

  Sorry my bad; better with LibreOffice as title and subdirectory:
> http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/libreoffice/index.shtml.shtml
> http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/libreoffice/index.shtml.en
> http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/libreoffice/index.shtml.fr
>
> Old links are removed
>
> Michèle

Merci Michèle:

There is a plugin notice on the page but we can still download the sound
file. Sounds great. I guess some people were wondering about the English
pronunciation as an example.

Still nice to have as an example.

Marc
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Michèle Garoche Michèle Garoche
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Re: [GENERAL] New name


On 3 oct. 10, at 12:49, Marc Paré wrote:

> Sorry my bad; better with LibreOffice as title and subdirectory:
>> http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/libreoffice/index.shtml.shtml
>> http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/libreoffice/index.shtml.en
>> http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/libreoffice/index.shtml.fr
>>
>> Old links are removed
>>
>> Michèle
>
> Merci Michèle:
>
> There is a plugin notice on the page but we can still download the
> sound file.
Yes, it is normal, you have to get the QuickTime plugin to hear the
embedded sound.
That's why I put the zipped file, maybe I should put a tar.gz file as

well.

> Sounds great. I guess some people were wondering about the English
> pronunciation as an example.
Sorry, here, I'm not a native English speaker, so I could not do it
(my English prononciation is a French one, so probably will sound very

very special to anyone not French lol;), but if someone does a m4a
file with the English pronunciation, I can put it on the same page and

next you will be able to download it and put it elsewhere (maybe on a

FAQ page as someone suggested on the list).

Michèle

>
> Still nice to have as an example.
>
> Marc
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yorick yorick
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Re: [GENERAL] New name

In reply to this post by Jean Weber
On Sunday 03 Oct 2010 20:55:11 Jean Hollis Weber wrote:

> On Sun, 2010-10-03 at 19:21 +1300, Graham Lauder wrote:
> > Antonio,
> > You in fact wear the best argument for a unique name in your sig.  Who is
> > arguably the most successful Open Source company:  Red Hat
> >
> > What in gods name does a Red Hat have to do with software other than give
> > them a really cool logo.
> >
> > This discussion is indicative, much of marketing is about creating buzz.
> > I would like a name that leads to a logo that is sexy enough for people
> > to use as a desktop background, Redhat does and Fedora and Firefox.  I
> > was looking at the "LibO" abbreviation and the thing that I suddenly saw
> > was LbD, or LBD which is abrreviation for "Little Black Dress", suddenly
> > I see a very cool logo and marketing campaign and a buzz.  One great
> > thing is that LBD is cool to both men and women, both groups tend to
> > like the way they look.
> >
> > What has it to do with Office suites? About the same amount that Computer
> > Operating systems have to do with Hats.
> >
> > But dang what a buzz it would cause:  An office suite that was sexy, now
> > THAT would be cool to market.
> >
> > Cheers
> > GL
>
> Graham, you & I think alike! But I should have thought of Red Hat when I
> was hurling out examples. And... Hmmm.... a sexy office suite? I'm sure
> someone could manage that, without it being also sexist.
>
> Cheers, Jean

Heh, As soon as I thought of it, I thought Jean is going to burn me for this!  
:)

But then I thought Oh well No Pain No Gain.  :D

Cheers
G  

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Graham Lauder,
OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html

OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.

INGOTs Assessor Trainer
(International Grades in Open Technologies)
www.theingots.org
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