Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [REVIEW 3-5: Late feature] Improvements in the header / footer behavior

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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [REVIEW 3-5: Late feature] Improvements in the header / footer behavior

Hi Kendy,

Jan Holesovsky wrote (29-12-11 17:22)

> On 2011-12-29 at 14:46 +0100, Cor Nouws wrote:
>> How does that behave when while scrolling the mouse moves over the
>> top/bottom of a page?
>
> Like, when you use the mouse wheel?  It seems that there are cases when
> it makes the makers to appear; but does not feel annoying to me, because
> it does not cause any jumping - the controls just slowly appear.

There are many ways to go through a document, also with keys.
And when the mouse pointer just hangs somewhere on the screen, which
happens often, then at random the markers/control appears...
And this will be fast - immediate appear / disappear, in the new
situation. Like a disco :-)
Would it be an idea to show the marker/control only if the mouse is
moved in the area (or Ctrl-PgUp/PgDwn is used) and not during random
scrolling through the document?

> I'll try to check it more&  polish if necessary.

OK :-)

Cheers,

--
  - Cor
  - http://nl.libreoffice.org

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Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [REVIEW 3-5: Late feature] Improvements in the header / footer behavior

Hi Astron, Kendy, Cedric and Cor!

Kendy, I've noticed your mail since I try to follow the mail stuff from
time to time ... still not real chance to be a bit more active. Hope to
change that soon. However, I'm now sitting on my "tethered" laptop with
a painfully slow network connection :-)

Am Donnerstag, den 29.12.2011, 17:42 +0100 schrieb Stefan Knorr
(Astron):
> Hi Jan, Cor, Cédric,
>
> both of the things you fixed were conscious decisions, but after
> seeing how well libo works with your patches, I think, they weren't
> good decisions after all, so +2 for your patches.

Concerning ...

* Change #1: Faster fade-in

I don't fully understand the change, whether it is a faster fade-in or
whether the control appear without delay. If the latter, I fear that
people will be heavily bothered if they just move the mouse cursor or
"park" their mouse pointer anywhere. Personally, I think that reducing
the delay to 500ms (from 1s) is reasonable.

It would be cool if you could have a look at the recommendation about
how to make it behave better (could not be implemented in the given
time, I assume):
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboard/Writer_SpecialIndicators#Behavior_2

So the idea was to have some more "intelligent" handling to balance the
"show as early as possible" vs. "don't bother the user". I'm sure some
details are still missing (e.g. I thought about removing the markers
after some time of mouse inactivity). Once we have a good working
behavior, I recommend using it for all the (upcoming?) visual markers we
have in LibO.


* Change #2: Separate handling of header/footer

I haven't tried that yet (download too slow), so I can just state the
reasons. Maybe it helps to decide ...
      * Word handles the header/footer area the same way, so we show
        these special ranges at the same time.
      * It also directly shows the user the current status of the
        "other" area (e.g. if a footer is enabled, not just empty).
      * I saves some time for the user for the controls to appear; and
        it makes things less visually "noisy".


> By the way...
> > It is because there is no real animation framework used / existing, the
> > controls are just painted several times with various opacity, which is
> > not ideal, but best we can do for 3.5 I am afraid.
>
> Is there any way, we could use Impress's animations for this in the future?

Hhm, clueless guess ... wasn't the Drawing Layer made for that? The Sun
guys told me years ago that smooth animations would be possible.
Something I still really miss for the Notes in the side pane - less
jumping ;-)

However, since we soon start into 2012 - I hope you all are well, you
have been able to enjoy family and friends, and you'll have an amazing
new year.

Cheers,
Christoph

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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [REVIEW 3-5: Late feature] Improvements in the header / footer behavior

Hi Christoph!

Christoph Noack wrote (30-12-11 21:52)

> However, since we soon start into 2012 - I hope you all are well, you
> have been able to enjoy family and friends, and you'll have an amazing
> new year.

Thanks a lot.
Wishing you and your family - hope the smallest one is catching up in
due speed - all good wishes for 2012.

Cheers,

--
  - Cor
  - http://nl.libreoffice.org

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Cedric Bosdonnat Cedric Bosdonnat
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [REVIEW 3-5: Late feature] Improvements in the header / footer behavior

In reply to this post by Cor Nouws
Hi Kendy all,

On Thu, 2011-12-29 at 14:15 +0100, Jan Holesovsky wrote:

> I have been playing recently with the great new header / footer
> indicators, and there were 2 things that I considered suboptimal from
> the UX point of view:
>
> - Appearing / disappearing of the controls after 1 second
>
>   I noticed that most of the time when I am using that, I am terribly
>   impatient even if it is just 1 second, and end up clicking the
>   header / footer area hoping that it will appear earlier; similarly for
>   disappearing.  I played with that, and with the faster appearing /
>   disappearing implemented by Thomas Collerton, there is no need for the
>   1 second timeout it seems; so I got rid of that:
>
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=64e08fd3c5980b74bb958dc566c229d92db18726
>
> - Showing both the header and footer controls, while the user is able to
>   use just one of them at a time
>
>   While it makes some sense from the implementation point of view to
>   keep the headers and footers close in the code, from the user point of
>   view I don't see why we should show both at the same time; the user is
>   able to edit either header, or footer, but never both at the same
>   time - she has only one caret ;-)  So I decoupled that:
>
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=cce76e658af88813e17dea4f04388a29d7e582df
>
> Both this is in master.  I recall the headers / footers were implemented
> together with our UX guys, so I don't push it to libreoffice-3-5 as a
> normal fix, but rather use the 'late feature' track - with more review,
> hoping in consensus about this :-)  I believe the above mentioned
> changes make the use of the new feature even more slick and sexy.
>
> So - can we agree to cherry-pick this to libreoffice-3-5 too? :-)

I'm all for it, but the following commits are fixing some side-effects
or UI weird things on this thread:


Show the page break tab under the mouse instead of the end of the line.
That fixes the UI problems mentioned in this thread.
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=5807b07161d84ef105cc1a2292c8c1f09888e39f
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=965e72d64c3e38780a69cace3f1bcc5fb35d6c1e
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=a0fa723ed5761609d2c31061fdd0282a2f1df6e7
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=3a326395a48db313b907b4a35392216d7b2e2a11

Fixes for your commits:
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=fef489ad0f1f14bd9f018552c47a93a80e8b353d
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=b7d6bff10a85986e5e6ebfa961f29fa8b3815b40

Thanks for your reviews,

--
Cedric

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Jan Holesovsky Jan Holesovsky
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [REVIEW 3-5: Late feature] Improvements in the header / footer behavior

Hi Cedric, all,

On 2012-01-05 at 17:06 +0100, Cedric Bosdonnat wrote:

> I'm all for it, but the following commits are fixing some side-effects
> or UI weird things on this thread:

Thank you! :-)

3 more commits; the most important is bringing back the delay before
appearing of the controls (500ms instead of 1s):

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=6abeafcd6a409c0910b19d1c935fe08431d66ae0
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=aa3bfbe776bcefd7e7b143e6843315df6b2a5ecb
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=60c968e9a2ef14aa289e677bd7f40d2c4724fd12

I hope / believe it is perfect now; or at least near to perfection :-)
It also seems to me that the appearing when you use keyboard to navigate
is gone too; but testing appreciated, of course.

So - do we want to get it into 3.5? ;-)

Thank you,
Kendy

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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [REVIEW 3-5: Late feature] Improvements in the header / footer behavior

Hi all,

Build just finished
   LibreOffice 3.6.0alpha0+
Build ID: ba759d7-ebf1e88-87c767e-libreoffice-3-5
        branch-point

Jan Holesovsky wrote (07-01-12 04:34)

>> Show the page break tab under the mouse instead of the end of the line.

it does, but I cannot click on it. It disappears when the mouse moves over.

> I hope / believe it is perfect now; or at least near to perfection :-)

Appearance of the blue markers is (close to perfect.
And also: they do not appear when the header/footer area just appears
under a non moving mouse pointer.

> It also seems to me that the appearing when you use keyboard to navigate
> is gone too; but testing appreciated, of course.

In some corner cases, the blue dotted line is persistent for some time
and shows in the middle of pages. Hard to pin that down - otherwise I
would have done that earlier.

> So - do we want to get it into 3.5? ;-)

Most seems great to me.

Cheers,


--
  - Cor
  - http://nl.libreoffice.org

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Jean-Baptiste Faure Jean-Baptiste Faure
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [REVIEW 3-5: Late feature] Improvements in the header / footer behavior

In reply to this post by Jan Holesovsky
Hi,

Le 07/01/2012 04:34, Jan Holesovsky a écrit :

> [...]
> 3 more commits; the most important is bringing back the delay before
> appearing of the controls (500ms instead of 1s):
>
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=6abeafcd6a409c0910b19d1c935fe08431d66ae0
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=aa3bfbe776bcefd7e7b143e6843315df6b2a5ecb
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=60c968e9a2ef14aa289e677bd7f40d2c4724fd12
>
> I hope / believe it is perfect now; or at least near to perfection :-)
> It also seems to me that the appearing when you use keyboard to navigate
> is gone too; but testing appreciated, of course.
Hmmm, well, for me (Gnome 3.2, gnome-shell, Ubuntu 11.10 x86_64) the
button blinks under the mouse pointer until it leaves the page break,
then the button becomes visible.
If you are lucky, you may succeed to get the dropdown menu when clicking
the blinking button.


Best regards.
JBF

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Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.

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Petr Mladek Petr Mladek
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [REVIEW 3-5: Late feature][PUSHED-3-5] Improvements in the header / footer behavior

In reply to this post by Jan Holesovsky
Jan Holesovsky píše v So 07. 01. 2012 v 04:34 +0100:

> Hi Cedric, all,
>
> On 2012-01-05 at 17:06 +0100, Cedric Bosdonnat wrote:
>
> > I'm all for it, but the following commits are fixing some side-effects
> > or UI weird things on this thread:
>
> Thank you! :-)
>
> > Show the page break tab under the mouse instead of the end of the line.
> > That fixes the UI problems mentioned in this thread.
> > http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=5807b07161d84ef105cc1a2292c8c1f09888e39f
> > http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=965e72d64c3e38780a69cace3f1bcc5fb35d6c1e
> > http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=a0fa723ed5761609d2c31061fdd0282a2f1df6e7
> > http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=3a326395a48db313b907b4a35392216d7b2e2a11
> >
> > Fixes for your commits:
> > http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=fef489ad0f1f14bd9f018552c47a93a80e8b353d
> > http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=b7d6bff10a85986e5e6ebfa961f29fa8b3815b40
>
> 3 more commits; the most important is bringing back the delay before
> appearing of the controls (500ms instead of 1s):
>
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=6abeafcd6a409c0910b19d1c935fe08431d66ae0
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=aa3bfbe776bcefd7e7b143e6843315df6b2a5ecb
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=60c968e9a2ef14aa289e677bd7f40d2c4724fd12
>
> I hope / believe it is perfect now; or at least near to perfection :-)
> It also seems to me that the appearing when you use keyboard to navigate
> is gone too; but testing appreciated, of course.
>
> So - do we want to get it into 3.5? ;-)

Kendy promised to fix the blinking and other potential issues in next
builds.

Otherwise, many people liked and wanted the feature: Cedric, Michael,
Cor, Astron, Ivan => I have pushed the two original commits and the 9
above mentioned fixes into libreoffice-3-5 branch for 3.5.0-beta3.

See also
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-3-5&id=77ec56689230606281c60b945f3d5edc1e97d7f7
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-3-5&id=cdd2364f23f92a3f63a551aa883b99cadf0bcf28
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-3-5&id=d3ea6fe7473049f421c1f72cde4bbd5c4c6348a9
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-3-5&id=0aff79354dc368e0c0a16070943b63c1ca91259d
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-3-5&id=5fb10a076a9192f8f37f6936231b742bae9ca44a
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-3-5&id=a0347a9b94e2dc4ee1906341aa187d6a9f7749af
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-3-5&id=c17724737cc54fbecb32c510c437c4fda045d94b
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-3-5&id=6e3d9d601cf7a9f20a93eb8fc9abf5d8464eec28
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-3-5&id=d5143dba0fa2f6e47088a574cef1b6d626100841
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-3-5&id=a5f59c3802199f01dfbce70b01183d4d0166c2f2
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-3-5&id=1e0de54d88a79c99f0671f608f7de096cb721537


Best Regards,
Petr

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