Re: Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2018-Dec-06

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Samuel Mehrbrodt-2 Samuel Mehrbrodt-2
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Re: Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2018-Dec-06

Am 06.12.2018 um 14:41 schrieb Heiko Tietze:
>   * Doesn't active menu item Insert->Headers and Footers in Calc 6.2
>     +https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=121759
>     + WFM/Move menu item
>     => Assigned to Heiko
Please don't move this again. It has just been moved to the Insert menu
a few releases ago. This will make users (and documentation writers)
despair.

Moving it also doesn't fix the problem that the menu entry is disabled
and there is no hint how to enable it.

Thanks
Samuel
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Re: Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2018-Dec-06

On 06.12.18 14:44, Samuel Mehrbrodt wrote:
> Please don't move this again. It has just been moved to the Insert menu a few releases ago. This will make users (and documentation writers) despair.
>
> Moving it also doesn't fix the problem that the menu entry is disabled and there is no hint how to enable it.

Please comment on BZ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=121759; so far there is no other opinion and yours would be 1 against 2. The patch is here https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/64712/


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Re: Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2018-Dec-06

Am 06.12.2018 um 15:12 schrieb Heiko Tietze:
> Please comment on BZ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=121759;

I already commented a week ago:
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=121759#c6

>   so far there is no other opinion and yours would be 1 against 2.
Since when is this decided by votes?

I tried to do what you are doing (disable header and footer by default
in Calc) some time ago, but I came to the conclusion that there needs to
be some serious UX improvements before we can do that.
Joe Average will not know how to enable them (that he has to go to
Format->Page to enable them).

If you want to disable headers and footers by default, you need to

1) Always enable the Insert->Header/Footer menu entry
2) Add an option to enable Header/Footer to the Header/Footer dialog

or something similiar.

Regards
Samuel
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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Re: Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2018-Dec-06

I was just now looking at this using the tabbed notebook interface (though I'm running the 6.3Alpha0 build, so maybe there is some difference there from 6.2) and I see that the different places where the header/footer dialog is available already enables or disables depending on what was selected in the page format dialog.  Given that the page format button is next to the header/footer button it becomes a visual clue that when you disable them in the page format dialog and return to the main window the h/f dialog button is immediately disabled. 

Plus it is good to see that both the page format and header/footer dialog is available during print preview, which is where one can notice that it is or isn't there, right. 

My question Is; Will this change in menus to happen in the 6.2 release?

Thanks and best wishes,

Drew


On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 9:27 AM Samuel Mehrbrodt <[hidden email]> wrote:
Am 06.12.2018 um 15:12 schrieb Heiko Tietze:
> Please comment on BZ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=121759;

I already commented a week ago:
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=121759#c6

>   so far there is no other opinion and yours would be 1 against 2.
Since when is this decided by votes?

I tried to do what you are doing (disable header and footer by default
in Calc) some time ago, but I came to the conclusion that there needs to
be some serious UX improvements before we can do that.
Joe Average will not know how to enable them (that he has to go to
Format->Page to enable them).

If you want to disable headers and footers by default, you need to

1) Always enable the Insert->Header/Footer menu entry
2) Add an option to enable Header/Footer to the Header/Footer dialog

or something similiar.

Regards
Samuel
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Re: Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2018-Dec-06

On 06.12.18 15:41, Drew Jensen wrote:
> ...
> My question Is; Will this change in menus to happen in the 6.2 release?

Yes it is/was in 6.2 But I will revert the patch that disables header/footer by default and abort this menu change.


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Re: Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2018-Dec-06

ah ok - once again I seem to be failing at understanding, I didn't notice any of this till the email today and thought the patch was pending not that it was already incorporated. 
I was not attempting to comment on whether it was a good thing or not - just that what I see in the UI using the tabbed bar makes reasonable sense IMO. I just wanted to make sure to pay attention to the change for the documentation work. 



On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 11:12 AM Heiko Tietze <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 06.12.18 15:41, Drew Jensen wrote:
> ...
> My question Is; Will this change in menus to happen in the 6.2 release?

Yes it is/was in 6.2 But I will revert the patch that disables header/footer by default and abort this menu change.

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