Re: Naming builds. Please???

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Terrence Enger Terrence Enger
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Re: Naming builds. Please???

Bjoern wrote the dev list.  I am responding on "discuss" because of
the vagueness of my comment.

On Wed, 2011-12-07 at 13:25 +0100, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> On Tue, Dec 06, 2011 at 11:18:02PM +0100, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 06, 2011 at 04:09:15AM -0800, Pedro wrote:
> > [very long thread]
>
> I think the whole concept of manually tracking masterbuilds is mostly broken. I
> think I have a better solution, and will post about it RSN. I would urge you to
> suspend this topic for a bit, as it might be obsolete soon wth that anyway.
> Details follow.

I wonder if I can get away with suggesting some additional
functionality?

Quite often, as I take notes about what I see happening, I want to
note just what version of LO is involved.  Perhaps others around here
do the same thing.

So, we could make LibreOffice copy its identification to the clipboard
in a form suitable for pasting into a Writer document (yes, I usually
have two versions of LO running), or into an email, or into a bug
report.  This could be available either as a button on the About
dialog or as an option on the Help menu.

The benefit, if there *is* any benefit, would come from
consistent-looking emails and bug reports.  The actual effort of
copying selected info is so small as not to justify much programming
effort.

Just a random idea,
Terry.



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Uwe Altmann Uwe Altmann
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Re: Naming builds. Please???

Hi Terry

Am 07.12.11 15:13, schrieb Terrence Enger:
> So, we could make LibreOffice copy its identification to the clipboard
> in a form suitable for pasting into a Writer document (yes, I usually
> have two versions of LO running), or into an email, or into a bug
> report.  This could be available either as a button on the About
> dialog or as an option on the Help menu.


Since recently, you can just copy the content of the upper
"About"-Dialog textbox; looks like

  LibreOffice 3.4.4
  OOO340m1 (Build:402)

Would that be good enough or what Information else is needed there? Then
perhaps it should be visible (and copyable) in this box too??

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Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Uwe Altmann

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Terrence Enger Terrence Enger
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Re: Naming builds. Please???

On Wed, 2011-12-07 at 18:22 +0100, Uwe Altmann wrote:

> Hi Terry
>
> Am 07.12.11 15:13, schrieb Terrence Enger:
> > So, we could make LibreOffice copy its identification to the clipboard
> > in a form suitable for pasting into a Writer document (yes, I usually
> > have two versions of LO running), or into an email, or into a bug
> > report.  This could be available either as a button on the About
> > dialog or as an option on the Help menu.
>
>
> Since recently, you can just copy the content of the upper
> "About"-Dialog textbox; looks like
>
>   LibreOffice 3.4.4
>   OOO340m1 (Build:402)
>
> Would that be good enough or what Information else is needed there?

That question has has provoked a long discussion
"Naming builds. Please???"
<http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2011-December/021742.html>
on the dev list.  I should have thought to include that link
with my original comment; sigh.  The proposals include
identification of the downloaded package file, commit ids of
each contributing repository, times of commit to each
contributing repository, configuration options.

> Then
> perhaps it should be visible (and copyable) in this box too??

Presumably the implementation of whatever is chosen will
allow copying.  The suggesion here is that we may get
easier-to-read reports by making it easy for people to copy
the same stuff the same way.

Terry.



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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: Naming builds. Please???

Le 2011-12-07 12:58, Terrence Enger a écrit :

> On Wed, 2011-12-07 at 18:22 +0100, Uwe Altmann wrote:
>> Hi Terry
>>
>> Am 07.12.11 15:13, schrieb Terrence Enger:
>>> So, we could make LibreOffice copy its identification to the clipboard
>>> in a form suitable for pasting into a Writer document (yes, I usually
>>> have two versions of LO running), or into an email, or into a bug
>>> report.  This could be available either as a button on the About
>>> dialog or as an option on the Help menu.
>>
>> Since recently, you can just copy the content of the upper
>> "About"-Dialog textbox; looks like
>>
>>    LibreOffice 3.4.4
>>    OOO340m1 (Build:402)
>>
>> Would that be good enough or what Information else is needed there?
> That question has has provoked a long discussion
> "Naming builds. Please???"
> <http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2011-December/021742.html>
> on the dev list.  I should have thought to include that link
> with my original comment; sigh.  The proposals include
> identification of the downloaded package file, commit ids of
> each contributing repository, times of commit to each
> contributing repository, configuration options.
>
>> Then
>> perhaps it should be visible (and copyable) in this box too??
> Presumably the implementation of whatever is chosen will
> allow copying.  The suggesion here is that we may get
> easier-to-read reports by making it easy for people to copy
> the same stuff the same way.
>
> Terry.
>
>
>
Why not just make it automatic by having a "Submit bug" button somewhere
and it would already fill in all of the identifying fields without the
user having to fill them out. This would make sure the devs get the
right information on the bug submissions all the time and the button
would be programmed right into the software. Probably the best place to
put it would be in the "About" menu.

Cheers,

Marc

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Terrence Enger Terrence Enger
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Re: Naming builds. Please???

On Wed, 2011-12-07 at 13:50 -0500, Marc Paré wrote:

> Le 2011-12-07 12:58, Terrence Enger a écrit :
> > On Wed, 2011-12-07 at 18:22 +0100, Uwe Altmann wrote:
> > > Hi Terry
> > >
> > > Am 07.12.11 15:13, schrieb Terrence Enger:
> > > > So, we could make LibreOffice copy its identification to the clipboard
> > > > in a form suitable for pasting into a Writer document
>
> Why not just make it automatic by having a "Submit bug" button somewhere
> and it would already fill in all of the identifying fields without the
> user having to fill them out. This would make sure the devs get the
> right information on the bug submissions all the time and the button
> would be programmed right into the software. Probably the best place to
> put it would be in the "About" menu.

That sounds good, but I see some difficulties, too.

(*) The user may be writing notes to herself or an email to
    a list instead of a bug report.

(*) The user's intention may be a comment on an existing bug
    rather than a new bug report.  (Having created bug 43468
    <https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43468>, I
    came back later with observations (more useful ones, I
    hope) of later version of maaster.)

(*) For a bug report, it would be tempting to collect
    information about not just the build, but about the
    particular situation as well.  (Klutz that I am, I kepp
    forgetting that the list of undo actions can help me
    remember what I was doing.)  Where does this end?

(*) This sounds so good that we might want to include it in
    product builds.  But then, we have to explain to users
    under what conditions the program collects what
    information for what purpose.  That is a can of worms
    that we may not want to open.

Each point boils down to a version of "where is it going to
end?".  To say "it ends where the work exceeds the benefit"
is true but unhelpful.  That's why we have the discuss list,
right? <grin />

Terry.



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Christoph Noack-2 Christoph Noack-2
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Re: Naming builds. Please???

In reply to this post by marcpare4
Hi Marc, all,

see http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboard/LibreOffice_Send_Feedback

Help appreciated :-)

Cheers,
Christoph



"Marc Paré" <[hidden email]> schrieb:

Le 2011-12-07 12:58, Terrence Enger a écrit :

> On Wed, 2011-12-07 at 18:22 +0100, Uwe Altmann wrote:
>> Hi Terry
>>
>> Am 07.12.11 15:13, schrieb Terrence Enger:
>>> So, we could make LibreOffice copy its identification to the clipboard
>>> in a form suitable for pasting into a Writer document (yes, I usually
>>> have two versions of LO running), or into an email, or into a bug
>>> report. This could be available either as a button on the About
>>> dialog or as an option on the Help menu.
>>
>> Since recently, you can just copy the content of the upper
>> "About"-Dialog textbox; looks like
>>
>> LibreOffice 3.4.4
>> OOO340m1 (Build:402)
>>
>> Would that be good enough or what Information else is needed there?
> That question has has provoked a long discussion
> "Naming builds. Please???"
> <http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2011-December/021742.html>;
> on the dev list. I should have thought to include that link
> with my original comment; sigh. The proposals include
> identification of the downloaded package file, commit ids of
> each contributing repository, times of commit to each
> contributing repository, configuration options.
>
>> Then
>> perhaps it should be visible (and copyable) in this box too??
> Presumably the implementation of whatever is chosen will
> allow copying. The suggesion here is that we may get
> easier-to-read reports by making it easy for people to copy
> the same stuff the same way.
>
> Terry.
>
>
>
Why not just make it automatic by having a "Submit bug" button somewhere
and it would already fill in all of the identifying fields without the
user having to fill them out. This would make sure the devs get the
right information on the bug submissions all the time and the button
would be programmed right into the software. Probably the best place to
put it would be in the "About" menu.

Cheers,

Marc

--
Marc Paré
[hidden email]
http://www.parEntreprise.com
parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org


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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: Naming builds. Please???

Hi Christoph,

Le 2011-12-07 16:54, [hidden email] a écrit :
> Hi Marc, all,
>
> see http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboard/LibreOffice_Send_Feedback
>
> Help appreciated :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
Nice!

I imagine, that if the user finally got to the point of filling out a
bug, that, perhaps, there would be an automatic forced search of any
similar bug(s) having been submitted? I know that the hardest part of
filing a bug on any project is the initial search for similar
bugs/complaints. Once the search completed then it is all pretty easy to
complete aside from giving a good description and a way to replicate the
bug.

Nice whiteboard on automating the process.

Cheers,

Marc

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Olav Dahlum Olav Dahlum
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Re: Naming builds. Please???

On 08/12/11 02:12, Marc Paré wrote:

> Hi Christoph,
>
> Le 2011-12-07 16:54, [hidden email] a écrit :
>> Hi Marc, all,
>>
>> see
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboard/LibreOffice_Send_Feedback
>>
>>
>> Help appreciated :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Christoph
> Nice!
>
> I imagine, that if the user finally got to the point of filling out a
> bug, that, perhaps, there would be an automatic forced search of any
> similar bug(s) having been submitted? I know that the hardest part of
> filing a bug on any project is the initial search for similar
> bugs/complaints. Once the search completed then it is all pretty easy to
> complete aside from giving a good description and a way to replicate the
> bug.
>
> Nice whiteboard on automating the process.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
>

Maybe someone have the time to dig into the KDE KCrash Handler source
and check out these features there?

– Olav

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steveedmonds steveedmonds
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Re: Naming builds. Please???

In reply to this post by marcpare4


On 2011-12-08 14:12, Marc Paré wrote:

> Hi Christoph,
>
> Le 2011-12-07 16:54, [hidden email] a écrit :
>> Hi Marc, all,
>>
>> see
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboard/LibreOffice_Send_Feedback
>>
>>
>> Help appreciated :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Christoph
> Nice!
>
> I imagine, that if the user finally got to the point of filling out a
> bug, that, perhaps, there would be an automatic forced search of any
> similar bug(s) having been submitted? I know that the hardest part of
> filing a bug on any project is the initial search for similar
> bugs/complaints. Once the search completed then it is all pretty easy
> to complete aside from giving a good description and a way to
> replicate the bug.
>
> Nice whiteboard on automating the process.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
Opensuse has this in their bug reports. When you file a report, the top
100 bugs are listed (search with /) then a search box if not in top 100,
then on down to filing the bug.
steve

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Michael Adams-2 Michael Adams-2
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Re: Naming builds. Please???

In reply to this post by marcpare4
On Thursday 08 December 2011 07:50, Marc Paré wrote:
> Le 2011-12-07 12:58, Terrence Enger a écrit :
[snip]

> >
> > Presumably the implementation of whatever is chosen will
> > allow copying.  The suggesion here is that we may get
> > easier-to-read reports by making it easy for people to copy
> > the same stuff the same way.
> >
> > Terry.
>
> Why not just make it automatic by having a "Submit bug" button
> somewhere and it would already fill in all of the identifying
> fields without the user having to fill them out. This would make
> sure the devs get the right information on the bug submissions all
> the time and the button would be programmed right into the
> software. Probably the best place to put it would be in the "About"
> menu.
>

Traditionally i understand reporting a bug is not an easy one step
process. This to:

 * Prevent frivolous bugs - "I can't find "File - Page Layout".

 * Prevent duplications, which happen anyway partly due to many
terminologies that people employ. (Lost track of how often i've heard
people call a system box a hard drive).

******

Why not add this to "Insert - Field" as "Insert - Field - Program
Version" and "Insert - Field - ODF Version".

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Michael

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Tony Pursell Tony Pursell
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Re: Naming builds. Please???

In reply to this post by Olav Dahlum
On 8 December 2011 02:01, Olav Dahlum <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 08/12/11 02:12, Marc Paré wrote:
> > Hi Christoph,
> >
> > Le 2011-12-07 16:54, [hidden email] a écrit :
> >> Hi Marc, all,
> >>
> >> see
> >>
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboard/LibreOffice_Send_Feedback
> >>
> >>
> >> Help appreciated :-)
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Christoph
> > Nice!
> >
> > I imagine, that if the user finally got to the point of filling out a
> > bug, that, perhaps, there would be an automatic forced search of any
> > similar bug(s) having been submitted? I know that the hardest part of
> > filing a bug on any project is the initial search for similar
> > bugs/complaints. Once the search completed then it is all pretty easy to
> > complete aside from giving a good description and a way to replicate the
> > bug.
> >
> > Nice whiteboard on automating the process.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Marc
> >
>
> Maybe someone have the time to dig into the KDE KCrash Handler source
> and check out these features there?
>
>
Christoph's design is great.  I like, particularly, the clear distinction
between reporting a bug and offering an idea or suggestion.

The point I do want to raise is how the bug/problem reporting functionality
will work with an OS like Ubuntu that already has its own bug reporting
procedures.  Many apps there have a Help > Report a Problem option which
calls Ubuntu's own bug reporting package (apport) to collect system
information and then connect to the Launchpad bug reporting web page.
Launchpad looks for possible duplicates and has quite extensive links to
synchronise with upstream bug reporting.  Here is an example of a bug I
reported.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/df-libreoffice/+bug/433563

Currently, with no functionality built in to LibreOffice, this would be
reported from the command line (ubuntu-bug libreoffice).  As you can see,
it is linked to both the LO and OOo upstream bug trackers.

Tony

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Pedro Pedro
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Re: Naming builds. Please???

In reply to this post by Christoph Noack-2
The current Bug Submission Assistant is the nicest, most user friendly Bug reporting form I have _ever_ come across. Kudos to all that contributed to make it such a nice experience!

I have two suggestions that I think could increase user input:

1) Add OpenID to the login options. Requiring people to subscribe to yet another site is sometimes enough to make them give up on their best intentions to contribute. Many users already have an OpenID even if they don't realize it
http://openid.net/get-an-openid/

2) It would be nice (I have no idea if this technically possible) if the list of Related bug reports showing under the input box was filtered (in addition to the Component, Sub-component and Version! Well done !) using the words in the Subject.
Maybe if the words chosen are expressive enough a similar result will appear below. If the user realizes that he might save himself and the triage people some time by not reporting a duplicate item.

--
Pedro