Re: New name

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jonathon jonathon
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Re: New name

On 10/04/2010 03:43 PM, Carlos Rocha wrote:

>and the good, old, and beautiful OOo.

Oracle has named their product Oracle OpenOffice, with the abbreviation
of OOO. One consequence of that act is that Oracle has poisoned both the
OOo and OpenOffice.org brand names.

jonathon
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Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by Andy Brown
Hi Andy,

a last mail ... for me it is far past 1 am already, but since your mind
is eager to know :-)))

Am Montag, den 04.10.2010, 16:10 -0700 schrieb Andy Brown:
> On Mon Oct 04 2010 15:12:06 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Christoph Noack wrote:
> >
> >>> Martin, from Oracle, was linking to this article:
> >>> http://tinyurl.com/36u3ksn

Well, a person from Oracle referred to that article ... so they might
also know where they put that statement. :-)

> I have to agree with Jean.  Anyone can "make a statement" but that is
> like listening to sound bits on tv.  What was the complete statement?
> Where can it be found?

It has already been cited by Kürti on this list:
http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/msg00282.html

> Inquiring mind what to know..:)

Of course ... ;-)

Good night,
Christoph

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Andy Brown Andy Brown
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Re: New name

Hi Christoph,

On Mon Oct 04 2010 16:29:37 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Christoph Noack wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
> a last mail ... for me it is far past 1 am already, but since your mind
> is eager to know :-)))
>

Well the message could have waited till morning.  That is the great
thing, at least to me, about email.

> Am Montag, den 04.10.2010, 16:10 -0700 schrieb Andy Brown:
>> On Mon Oct 04 2010 15:12:06 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Christoph Noack wrote:
>>>>> Martin, from Oracle, was linking to this article:
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/36u3ksn
>
> Well, a person from Oracle referred to that article ... so they might
> also know where they put that statement. :-)

It would be interesting to get a copy of the "comment".

>
> It has already been cited by Kürti on this list:
> http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/msg00282.html

A repeat of the "news article".

>
> Good night,
> Christoph


Good night.. :)

Andy
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Ron House Ron House
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Re: New name

It's unfortunate that this thread has morphed into a criticism of the
key workers to whom we all owe so much.

I posted earlier only in the spirit of contributing my opinion (which is
based on thirty years of observation of project successes and failures)
that the name chosen will be less effective than it might be in
furthering the goals of the project. (Although, aside, the abbreviation
"LibO" has a lot going for it!)

So I here express my thanks and appreciation to the project leaders and
to everyone who has ever contributed to this project.

But back to the name... ;-)  How about a competition? Just have a go and
see what suggestions the entire community of FLOSS supporters and users
can dream up. Then, maybe, put the heavy on some of the corporate
sponsors to buy whatever trademarks and domains are needed for a really
good name that speaks, not only to those of us who are familiar with
"free", "open source", FLOSS", etc., but also to the wide world of
millions of folk to who we would love to have on board supporting the
project.

I would like to forestall one objection I sometimes hear: This is free,
so who cares about the great unwashed masses - let them eat Microsoft!

I think that is shortsighted. Microsoft is a malignant corporation and
their monopolies in OSes and office suites have harmed and do harm all
of us. Every game, every serious application, written only for windows
is an application that might have run on a safer, more open OS if not
for the monopolies. Even if I prefer open source, if someone has a
commercial app. that I need, I would like to be able to buy it for
Linux! So for our own benefit, even discounting the goal of improving
the world of computing in general, bringing wonderful apps like this one
to the world is important, and we should give ourselves the best chance
of pulling it off.

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yorick yorick
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by Thorsten Behrens
And now I have to eat humble pie and apologise profusely.  I did a search back
over the marketing list and the announcement is there on the 28th posted by
Varun.  I don't know how I missed it and now I feel like such an idiot

Thorsten, Charles and Christoph, please accept abject apologies.  I shall now
go hide in a hole somewheres.


Cheers
GL
 
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OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.

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Simo Kaupinmäki Simo Kaupinmäki
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by jonathon
paul.hermeneutic wrote:
> There will be few problems understanding "LibreOffice."  It is likely
> to be more universally understood than "OpenOffice."

For Romance languages that may be true, but I'm not so sure about the rest
of the world. Even on this mailing list I've already seen LibreOffice
spelled as "LibraOffice", "LiberOffice" and "LiberteOffice", so the name
does not seem too easy to adopt internationally. (Not to mention that on
some Finnish discussion forums it was immediately nicknamed "Libresse"
after an international brand of feminine hygiene products, which also
happens to have a seagull attached to its logo. But of course puns could
get inspired by any name.)

I agree that the reference to liberty is an appealing idea from a semantic
and philosophical point of view, but like a few others here, I'm not quite
convinced that the new name will be optimal for actually marketing the
product. It would be interesting to hear more details about the other
options that were discussed, and why exactly they were rejected. For
example, were there any serious alternatives that could have been
abbreviated as OO (with just two Os, as opposed to OOo)?

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Varun Mittal Varun Mittal
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by yorick
Hello Galvin,

No need to hide anywhere. It is okay,everyone makes mistakes...that just
proves you are  human and not some BOT  ;)

Hope to have a fruitful discussion from hereon.

 Thank You

Best Regards
Varun Mittal <http://www.varunmittal.info>
Moderator, Mailing Lists(all)
Market Project
www.OpenOffice.org

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"Uncertainty is the only Certainty of LIFE"

On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Graham Lauder <[hidden email]>wrote:

> And now I have to eat humble pie and apologise profusely.  I did a search
> back
> over the marketing list and the announcement is there on the 28th posted by
> Varun.  I don't know how I missed it and now I feel like such an idiot
>
> Thorsten, Charles and Christoph, please accept abject apologies.  I shall
> now
> go hide in a hole somewheres.
>
>
> Cheers
> GL
>
> --
> Graham Lauder,
> OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
> http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html
>
> OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.
>
> INGOTs Assessor Trainer
> (International Grades in Open Technologies)
> www.theingots.org
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>
>

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by Simo Kaupinmäki
  Le 2010-10-05 02:49, Simo Kaupinmäki a écrit :

> paul.hermeneutic wrote:
>> There will be few problems understanding "LibreOffice."  It is likely
>> to be more universally understood than "OpenOffice."
>
> For Romance languages that may be true, but I'm not so sure about the
> rest of the world. Even on this mailing list I've already seen
> LibreOffice spelled as "LibraOffice", "LiberOffice" and
> "LiberteOffice", so the name does not seem too easy to adopt
> internationally. (Not to mention that on some Finnish discussion
> forums it was immediately nicknamed "Libresse" after an international
> brand of feminine hygiene products, which also happens to have a
> seagull attached to its logo. But of course puns could get inspired by
> any name.)
>
> I agree that the reference to liberty is an appealing idea from a
> semantic and philosophical point of view, but like a few others here,
> I'm not quite convinced that the new name will be optimal for actually
> marketing the product. It would be interesting to hear more details
> about the other options that were discussed, and why exactly they were
> rejected. For example, were there any serious alternatives that could
> have been abbreviated as OO (with just two Os, as opposed to OOo)?
>
> --
>   /\__/\    Simo            Opin jo kauan sitten, että sian kanssa
>  ( o  o )   Kaupinmäki        ei kannata painia. Siinä likaantuu,
>  ( (oo) )   [hidden email]       ja sika sitä paitsi pitää siitä.
>  http://www.uta.fi/~lisika/       ------- Cyrus Ching -------

So far, if you read most threads on this, you will find the most are
adopting the LibO as the acronym. It is catchy, cute and fluffy! LOL

Seriously, it is cute, catchy and fluffy! It looks like it will be
adopted by everyone just be the sheer fact of usage or common practice.

LibO (a.k.a LibreOffice)

Marc
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Valter Mura (Google Drive) Valter Mura (Google Drive)
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by jonathon
In data sabato 2 ottobre 2010 19:00:20, Italo Vignoli ha scritto:

> Gianluca Turconi wrote:
> > Was the "Office" suffix a mandatory requirement for marketing reasons?
>
> Of course not, but most of the people involved in the project since the
> first day felt that "office" was stressing the continuity between the
> past and the future.
>
> We have considered names without "office", but we have not been able to
> find anything good enough to become memorable. Though, we have found a
> nice acronym: "LibO", pronounced "libò".

FreeOffice? :-)

Does it already exist?

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italovignoli italovignoli
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Re: New name

Valter Mura wrote:

>> We have considered names without "office", but we have not been able to
>> find anything good enough to become memorable. Though, we have found a
>> nice acronym: "LibO", pronounced "libò".
>
> FreeOffice? :-)
>
> Does it already exist?

Was, of course, the first option. Trademark registered everywhere, from
software to office furniture to stationery.

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Valter Mura (Google Drive) Valter Mura (Google Drive)
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by italovignoli
In data lunedì 4 ottobre 2010 12:06:39, Italo Vignoli ha scritto:

> James Wilde wrote:
> > As I understand it, most of the development team of OOo jumped ship to
> > set up LibO in anticipation of Oracle making unacceptable changes to the
> > OOo concept.  I don't know how many they are, but I'd be surprised if
> > they're over 30, and as far as I and most users are concerned, they
> > "own" the product.
>
> We don't "own" anything. We have simply started the process, and we have
> tried to push it forward putting all our enthusiasm and energies behind i
t.

>
> The process has started a long time before the conference in Budapest,
> where there have not been any "parallel" or "secret" sessions. We have
> been there as regular OOo community members.
>
> As far as the process of creation of the group is concerned, I would say
> that has been very "natural": i.e. we have started discussing the
> problem over beers at OOo conferences, then we have started to write
> emails and sometimes discuss the subject over the phone or Skype.
>
> Those that were in the loop are part of the group of founding members:
> there has not been any deliberate process for bringing in "friends". We
> have all "earned" - if I can use this term - the right to belong to the
> group based on merit and contribution.

I agree with you Italo. But, as a long lasting active member of the Italian

Localization Team, could I become a member of the Document Foundation? Is
there a process for that? I mean, like applying for the PLIO?

I wonder: do I have the right to participate in the Foundation, not only as
 a
volunteer in a specific area (in my case, localization)?

>
> > But the point is, the 30 or whatever developers have been planning this
> > for some time.  They didn't launch LibO after a beer last Friday, and
> > they, for better or worse, chose LibreOffice as the name.
>
> There is one single concept that has not been raised during the
> discussion about the name: the OOo (and now LibO) community is in the
> same marketplace as corporations with a turnover of tens of billions of
> dollars. Brand names and trademarks are key for protecting the software
> and the foundation, and our lawyers have suggested to come out with a
> name which was difficult or impossible to attack.
>
> I think that it is time to concentrate on the development of the
> community and the software. As far as I am concerned, LibreOffice is
> terrible for Italian speakers, but LibO is nice and cute, especially if
> you pronounce it with an accent on the last letter: Libò.

I also agree with this and I like very much the short name. :-)

Best regards,
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italovignoli italovignoli
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Re: New name

Valter Mura wrote:

>> Those that were in the loop are part of the group of founding members:
>> there has not been any deliberate process for bringing in "friends". We
>> have all "earned" - if I can use this term - the right to belong to the
>> group based on merit and contribution.
>
> I agree with you Italo. But, as a long lasting active member of the Italian
> Localization Team, could I become a member of the Document Foundation? Is
> there a process for that? I mean, like applying for the PLIO?
>
> I wonder: do I have the right to participate in the Foundation, not only as
> a volunteer in a specific area (in my case, localization)?

I would say, definitely yes.

If you look at the web site, the foundation will be a meritocracy (I
think that Ubuntu calls it a do-ocracy, but there might be dozens of
flavours of the same concept).

My friends are working hard at opening new mailing lists, and the
localization is already active at [hidden email] (subscription
works as for the other lists: [hidden email]).

We are working hard also at setting up the foundation, but in the
meantime every additional hand is really welcome, although it may be
difficult to give each one a specific role now. Things are a little
hectic at the moment (we have all reduced our amount of sleep).

You know, OOo is really huge, and TDF will not be a foundation like many
others, because it will be a baby with the size of an adult.

What I can suggest at the moment is to watch carefully the progress, and
jump on board as soon as possible.

Of course, if you have a specific question, feel free to drop me a line.
Thanks, Italo

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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by marcpare4
On 2010-10-05 10:15 AM, Marc Paré wrote:
> Seriously, it is cute, catchy and fluffy! It looks like it will be
> adopted by everyone just be the sheer fact of usage or common practice.
>
> LibO (a.k.a LibreOffice)

Too bad none of the main libo domains (I checked .com/org) are available.
..

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Friedrich Strohmaier Friedrich Strohmaier
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by Simo Kaupinmäki
Hi Simo, *,

Simo Kaupinmäki schrieb:

> paul.hermeneutic wrote:
>> There will be few problems understanding "LibreOffice."  It is
>> likely to be more universally understood than "OpenOffice."

> For Romance languages that may be true, but I'm not so sure about the
> rest of the world.

Probably we Germans are in a similar situation as You from Finnland: The
name is without sense. Even worse: no problem to pronounce! ;o))

So we have a boring bare hook instead of a christmas tree, but hey: much
space to put on nice and useful things! :o))

We are in process doing so right now on this place! :o))

[..]

Gruß/regards
--
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Ansprechpartner / contact person for the "PrOOo-Box"
german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD
http://prooo-box.org 

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nabbler nabbler
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by jonathon
I don't like LibO because I don't like medial capitals (!). For me LO
to mean Liberty Office (Software).
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Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by Andy Brown
Hi Andy!

Am Montag, den 04.10.2010, 17:03 -0700 schrieb Andy Brown:

> On Mon Oct 04 2010 16:29:37 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Christoph Noack wrote:
> > Am Montag, den 04.10.2010, 16:10 -0700 schrieb Andy Brown:
> >> On Mon Oct 04 2010 15:12:06 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Christoph Noack wrote:
> >>>>> Martin, from Oracle, was linking to this article:
> >>>>> http://tinyurl.com/36u3ksn
> >
> > Well, a person from Oracle referred to that article ... so they might
> > also know where they put that statement. :-)
>
> It would be interesting to get a copy of the "comment".

Indeed :-) But then we have to ask Graham, whether he is so kind to tell
us where to find Martin's mail.

> > It has already been cited by Kürti on this list:
> > http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/msg00282.html
>
> A repeat of the "news article".

Aha. But what you mean? :-)

Cheers,
Christoph

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Christoph Noack-2 Christoph Noack-2
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by yorick
Good evening Graham!

Am Dienstag, den 05.10.2010, 19:24 +1300 schrieb Graham Lauder:
> Thorsten, Charles and Christoph, please accept abject apologies.  I
> shall now go hide in a hole somewheres.

Oh, please do not :-) I owe you a lot of respect to state this here,
really. Vice versa, please (everyone) please accept our apologies if
things sometimes don't work like expected. Especially if it takes us so
long to resolve such a (rather) small mis-understanding.

So please let's continue to work together ... at the end, it is about
the value of the idea :-)

Bye,
Christoph

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Valter Mura (Google Drive) Valter Mura (Google Drive)
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by italovignoli
In data martedì 5 ottobre 2010 18:04:26, Italo Vignoli ha scritto:

--cut--
> You know, OOo is really huge, and TDF will not be a foundation like many
> others, because it will be a baby with the size of an adult.
>
> What I can suggest at the moment is to watch carefully the progress, and
> jump on board as soon as possible.

thanks for the clarification, Italo

Ciao
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Andy Brown Andy Brown
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by Christoph Noack
On Tue Oct 05 2010 14:10:26 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Christoph Noack wrote:

> Hi Andy!
>
> Am Montag, den 04.10.2010, 17:03 -0700 schrieb Andy Brown:
>> On Mon Oct 04 2010 16:29:37 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Christoph Noack wrote:
>>> Am Montag, den 04.10.2010, 16:10 -0700 schrieb Andy Brown:
>>>> On Mon Oct 04 2010 15:12:06 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Christoph Noack wrote:
>>>>>>> Martin, from Oracle, was linking to this article:
>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/36u3ksn
>>> Well, a person from Oracle referred to that article ... so they might
>>> also know where they put that statement. :-)
>> It would be interesting to get a copy of the "comment".
>
> Indeed :-) But then we have to ask Graham, whether he is so kind to tell
> us where to find Martin's mail.

The article only states "Oracle said it was investing substantial
resources in OpenOffice.org.

“With more than 100 million users, we believe OpenOffice.org is the most
advanced, most feature-rich open-source implementation and will strongly
encourage the OpenOffice community to continue to contribute through
www.openoffice.org,” the enterprise software and hardware giant said in
a statement."  With no name or reference to where the statement can be see.

>
>>> It has already been cited by Kürti on this list:
>>> http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/msg00282.html
>> A repeat of the "news article".
>
> Aha. But what you mean? :-)

Just what I said, the message only repeats the same "statement".  Again
no name or reference to where the full "statement" can be found.

Who made the statement?  What is their position at Oracle?  Anyone can
make a statement but how much weight does that statement carry?

If you take it a face value then there is no way that Oracle is going to
hand over the trademark or anything else to the community that has
helped build it.  Do they actually think that "they" did all the work to
get that 100 million users?  Yet there are some that hold to the idea.

Andy
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Friedrich Strohmaier Friedrich Strohmaier
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Re: New name

In reply to this post by Christoph Noack
Hi Christoph, Andy, *,

Christoph Noack schrieb:
>Am Montag, den 04.10.2010, 17:03 -0700 schrieb Andy Brown:
>> On Mon Oct 04 2010 16:29:37 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Christoph Noack wrote:
>>> Am Montag, den 04.10.2010, 16:10 -0700 schrieb Andy Brown:
>>>> On Mon Oct 04 2010 15:12:06 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Christoph Noack wrote:

>>>>>>> Martin, from Oracle, was linking to this article:
>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/36u3ksn

>>> Well, a person from Oracle referred to that article ... so they
>>> might also know where they put that statement. :-)

>> It would be interesting to get a copy of the "comment".

>Indeed :-) But then we have to ask Graham, whether he is so kind to
> tell us where to find Martin's mail.

I think Andy expects - like I do - that Oracle one of the big companies
worldwide is able to give an official statement. This isn´t true yet.

The info mentioned aparently was passed to computerworld:
http://blogs.computerworld.com/17097/the_openoffice_fork_is_officially_here

Seems, they have to stay hidden for some reason. ;o))

[..]

Gruß/regards
--
Friedrich

Ansprechpartner / contact person for the "PrOOo-Box"
german language OpenOffice.org and more on CD/DVD
http://prooo-box.org 

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