Re: moving to new version of MS Office

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anne-ology anne-ology
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

       yes, I so agree.



Hi :)

I am sick of people going on about MS Office all the time.  People ask
for a list of reasons why LibreOffice should be considered but are
never going to listen to any of the reasons.  [This started as a
letter to a work-colleague but i think i would get the sack if i sent
it.]  Here are a few i've noticed ...


1.  Each of the following versions/releases are quite different menus
from each other
2007, 2010, 2013 and then radically different for 365
All those are radically different from 2003 and prior.  Prior to 2003
their menus were all quite similar but now the all new ribbon-bar
keeps changing quite a lot.  The menus/ribbon-bar is so different
between each one that many, perhaps even most, people need re-training
between each one.  People trained in 2010 often have trouble with
2007, 2013 and can't cope with 365.  'IT Training' organisations have
huge books about the different ways of doing things in each version.

People trained in 2010 who go on to get an office job might well find
they struggle to use whichever other version their new workplace uses.
 Many of the people doing IT Training are not even looking for work
that would involve using desktop computers.  They just need to learn
just enough to write a CV (which could be done using menus in their
own language in LibreOffice rather than first having to learn enough
English (US)).

2.  Formats are slightly different.  From 2010 they open documents
from other versions in "Compatibility Mode" but that doesn't always
work.  Images get moved or corrupted.  Paragraphs sometimes have
chunks that are a different font or size.

3.  The macro programming language changes between each version so
that macros written for 2007 probably wont work in 2010.  Sometimes
people have to buy a different version of MS Office than they already
have, purely to be able to run a particular macro.

One of the reasons the macro language keeps being changed is due to
it's vulnerability to attacks.  Apparently it's fairly easy to add
extra code to a macro to execute code, insert trojans, open ports.  MS
keep trying to make it safer and keep assuring us it is safe now but
then another attack reaches the news.  Many places lock-down MS Office
so that it cannot open or use macros.  To move to a newer version of
MS Office macros need to be re-written and that might cost time and
money.


By contrast LibreOffice;
1.  keeps the same menu layout for each different version.  They just
add new features into the existing menus.  Retraining might be needed
1 time when people first move to LibreOffice.  After that they need no
new training between different versions/releases.

2.  The format stays the same between different versions of the
program.  It is the same format used "natively" by many other programs
such as IBM Lotus Symphony, Google-docs, K.Office, Calligra and
others.  Even MS Office 2013, and more recent, can open and use the
format which is an ISO format.

3.  Macros can be written in proper programming languages such as C++
or Python but people can use a slightly different version of "Basic"
that is not so vulnerable.  Macros are run slightly differently so
that they can't cause infections.


Often IT training organisations will put months into learning newer
versions of MS Office and Windows but not put any time into learning
LibreOffice and then grumble that LibreOffice is not identical to "MS
Office" (without stating which version of MS Office they expected it
to be similar to.  They don't grumble about changes in MS Office and
don't expect it to be easy to change versions.  Even so, one was able
to show me some neat tricks in LibreOffice, that i hadn't realised it
could do.


Getting into some petty details. LibreOffice;
1.  produces better quality Pdfs more easily and gives more options
for them (such as loss-less compression instead of creating smudges)
2.  handles images more smoothly
3.  better quality documents faster and more easily
4.  more secure and robust.  Even if it does run into troubles it
doesn't affect other programs so much.
5.  once it's open it's faster
6.  works well on much lower spec machines
7.  of the 4 main platforms (Windows, Mac, Linux, Bsd) MS office only
works on 1, occasionally 2.  There wont be a Mac version of 2013.
LibreOffice works on all 4.
8.  handles a much wider range of formats from other programs
including many MS ones that have been dropped by MS.
9.  Relatively easily switches between different languages so that
non-English speakers can still use it.  On Windows you have to
struggle to find an appropriate font and "regionalisation" but on
Ubuntu it loads the font when you load the language.
10.  if you want changes you can program them or pay for someone
locally to do the programming.  You do not have to sit back and just
hope 1 monolithic organisation takes notice of your own needs.
11.  it's a LOT cheaper, especially for individual people (rather than
large companies who may end up employing programmers at a fraction the
cost license fees would have been)


Many companies, especially charities, can buy MS Office for bargain
discount special deals.  When an individual person tries to buy MS
Office it can easily cost them over £100 and may be several hundred.
Individuals usually only get some of the programs and may need to buy
Publisher or other things separately.

Is it morally right for a charity to expect it's service-users to
spend so much more money than they need to and thus ensure the charity
can keep getting special discounts?

Regards from
Tom :)

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Pedro Pedro
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

Hi Tom

Tom wrote
2.  The format stays the same between different versions of the
program.  It is the same format used "natively" by many other programs
such as IBM Lotus Symphony, Google-docs, K.Office, Calligra and
others.  Even MS Office 2013, and more recent, can open and use the
format which is an ISO format.
Actually this is not true. The file extension is the same but the format has been changing (that is why you have options to save to ODF 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 and 1.2 Extended)
If you try to open an ODF 1.2 Extended file more complex than simple text with any other of those programs (even with some older versions of LibreOffice) you will find some incompatibilities...

So, I agree with most of your points but this argument is shooting yourself on the foot. ODF does share that problem with MS XML files: same extension, different file structure.

The advantage is that you can always get the latest LibreOffice version for free (unlike MS Office...)

Cheers,
Pedro
Tom Tom
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

Hi :)
Thanks Pedro :)  I am looking for criticism and for other points so
that i can write a much shorter and less emotional list and maybe give
a link to the "White Paper" that someone has been writing
Regards from
Tom :)



On 29 November 2013 00:06, Pedro <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Tom
>
>
> Tom wrote
>> 2.  The format stays the same between different versions of the
>> program.  It is the same format used "natively" by many other programs
>> such as IBM Lotus Symphony, Google-docs, K.Office, Calligra and
>> others.  Even MS Office 2013, and more recent, can open and use the
>> format which is an ISO format.
>
> Actually this is not true. The file extension is the same but the format has
> been changing (that is why you have options to save to ODF 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 and
> 1.2 Extended)
> If you try to open an ODF 1.2 Extended file more complex than simple text
> with any other of those programs (even with some older versions of
> LibreOffice) you will find some incompatibilities...
>
> So, I agree with most of your points but this argument is shooting yourself
> on the foot. ODF does share that problem with MS XML files: same extension,
> different file structure.
>
> The advantage is that you can always get the latest LibreOffice version for
> free (unlike MS Office...)
>
> Cheers,
> Pedro
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Re-moving-to-new-version-of-MS-Office-tp4085488p4085496.html
> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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jonathon-6 jonathon-6
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

In reply to this post by anne-ology


Tom wrote:

>3.  Macros can be written in proper programming languages such as C++
>or Python but people can use a slightly different version of "Basic"
>that is not so vulnerable.  Macros are run slightly differently so that they can't cause infections.

It is, however, easier to find material that teavches one how to write a macro for MSO, than  to write a macro for LibO

>8.  handles a much wider range of formats from other programs including many MS ones that have been dropped by MS.

There has been some discussion about dropping support for some of the older file formats.  Not from the  vintage when WangWriter reigned supreme, but from the days of OpenOffice 1.5.  

>9.  Relatively easily switches between different languages so that
non-English speakers can still use it.  On Windows you have to struggle to find an appropriate font and "regionalisation" but on Ubuntu it loads the font when you load the language.

How does LibreOfffice in say, Korean, behave, when installed on an English (GB) version of Windows? On the flipside, how does English (UK) LibO behave, when installed on a Japanese version of Windows?  

And along those lines, is there still a person, or group that constructs:
* A Pan-Indian LibO DVD.  (LibO for the four major operating systems, in all of the official languaes, and most of the semi-official languages of India.);
*A Southern African DVD (LibO in the official languages of South Africa, Namibia, Mocambique, Angola, Lesotho, Swaziland, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Malawi, for the four major operating systems.);
* The Arabic, English, German, Hebrew, Russian compilation LibO DVD, for the four major operating systems.;

>11.  it's a LOT cheaper, especially for individual people (rather than
large companies who may end up employing programmers at a fraction the
cost license fees would have been)

Whether or not LibO is cheaper than MSO, is a matter of deciding what factors to look at, and how to define those factors.

*  For the typical individual, there is no visible difference between the upfront cost of MSO, and the upfront cost of LibO. They both appear to be gratis.
*   On the support end of things, there is a huge cost difference between the two. (US$50 per incident versus US$500 per incident.)

* For corporations, it is much easier, and cheaper to find Level 3 Tier support for MSO, than LibO.  On the flipside, Level 3 Tier support for LibO can be done in-house --- if the board of directors fully backs that proposition, and provides the requisite support to carry it off.

>Many companies, especially charities, can buy MS Office for bargain discount special deals.

Microsoft's hypocracy in offering discounts for their software to charitable organizations has been well documented for more than a decade.  Their charitable sales arm is best known for ensuring its victims spend more money on software and hardware, than those victims receives in gifts, kind, and related donations.

 >When an individual person tries to buy MS Office it can easily cost them over £100 and may be several hundred.

For the majority of individuals, MSO is effectively gratis, because it is included in the junkware that infects their new computer.  For a significant proportion of the rest of the population, MSO can be had for under 100 Euros.

What people tend to forget, is that MSO was not designed for SOHO usage.

>Individuals usually only get some of the programs and may need to buy Publisher or other things separately.

Publisher has never been part of the basic MSO packages.  
I'm not even sure it was part of any of the professional packages.
I know that it came with an enterprise edition, but those  editions are best compared with Debian, or Xubuntu.  

>Is it morally right for a charity to expect it's service-users to spend so much more money than they need to and thus ensure the charity can keep getting special discounts?

I've had this discussion in three different states, with double that number of organizations, private, public, and government agencies.  The bottom line is that the system is not designed to help those that are ostensibly being helped.  Rephrased, it is designed to ensure the highest possible cost, for the lowest quality goods, with no input from those who are supposed to benefit from the services that are allegedly being rendered.

jonathon
--
Sent from the eating establishment at the far side of the universe, from the begining of time.

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doug-2 doug-2
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

In reply to this post by Pedro
On 11/28/2013 07:06 PM, Pedro wrote:

> Hi Tom
>
>
> Tom wrote
>> 2.  The format stays the same between different versions of the
>> program.  It is the same format used "natively" by many other programs
>> such as IBM Lotus Symphony, Google-docs, K.Office, Calligra and
>> others.  Even MS Office 2013, and more recent, can open and use the
>> format which is an ISO format.
>
> Actually this is not true. The file extension is the same but the format has
> been changing (that is why you have options to save to ODF 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 and
> 1.2 Extended)
> If you try to open an ODF 1.2 Extended file more complex than simple text
> with any other of those programs (even with some older versions of
> LibreOffice) you will find some incompatibilities...
>
> So, I agree with most of your points but this argument is shooting yourself
> on the foot. ODF does share that problem with MS XML files: same extension,
> different file structure.
>
> The advantage is that you can always get the latest LibreOffice version for
> free (unlike MS Office...)
>
> Cheers,
> Pedro
>

If you save your file in .doc 1997~2000 (or 1997~2003) every program will be
able to open it. Never use .docx.

--doug

--
Blessed are the peacemakers..for they shall be shot at from both sides.
--A.M.Greeley

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anne-ology anne-ology
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

In reply to this post by anne-ology
       But what I cannot understand is why the continual changing by any
...
           to improve - ok; but this continual changing makes it nearly
impossible to stay up-to-date;

       forinstance, the typewriter basically stayed the same -
           yes, they electrified it, even adding memory ... yet the
operation of it remained as it had been  ;-)

       forinstance, the automobile basically stayed the same -
           yes, they switched the driver's seat, the ignition, horn, brake
placements ... yet the operation of it remained as it had been -
               up until the electronics were added  ;-)

       forinstance, the craftsman took pride in his workmanship -
           then came advertising & the 'throw-away' society  ;-(

       Are we better off with these changes or merely more 'n more confused
& frustrated  ;-)

       From me - the goofy, horse 'n buggy era-er  ;-)



Date: Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office


Hi :)

Thanks Pedro :)  I am looking for criticism and for other points so
that i can write a much shorter and less emotional list and maybe give
a link to the "White Paper" that someone has been writing
Regards from
Tom :)



On 29 November 2013 00:06, Pedro <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Tom
>
>
> Tom wrote
>> 2.  The format stays the same between different versions of the
>> program.  It is the same format used "natively" by many other programs
>> such as IBM Lotus Symphony, Google-docs, K.Office, Calligra and
>> others.  Even MS Office 2013, and more recent, can open and use the
>> format which is an ISO format.
>
> Actually this is not true. The file extension is the same but the format
has
> been changing (that is why you have options to save to ODF 1.0, 1.1, 1.2
and
> 1.2 Extended)
> If you try to open an ODF 1.2 Extended file more complex than simple text
> with any other of those programs (even with some older versions of
> LibreOffice) you will find some incompatibilities...
>
> So, I agree with most of your points but this argument is shooting
yourself
> on the foot. ODF does share that problem with MS XML files: same
extension,
> different file structure.
>
> The advantage is that you can always get the latest LibreOffice version
for
> free (unlike MS Office...)
>
> Cheers,
> Pedro
>

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Kolbjørn Stuestøl Kolbjørn Stuestøl
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No offline help 4.2.0.0

In reply to this post by doug-2
Libreoffice 4.2.0.0 (beta 1).
When I press F1 or "Help -> Help for LibreOffice" in the menu I get the
online help (https://help.libreoffice.org/), not the inbuilt offline
help. Any way to force the program to open offline help as in LO 4.1 or
do I have to wait untill the next release of 4.2?
I have not the knowledge to built my own version of 4.2.
Running LO 4.2 on Windows 7. LO downloaded from
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/pre-releases/
Kolbjoern

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Tom Tom
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Re: No offline help 4.2.0.0

Hi :)
Which language?  It's possible that non-English(US) languages might
still be being translated.  Even the English (US) one might possibly
not be completely ready yet = which would make it difficult to
translate!  There is a carefully thought out process and series of
freezes for these things to ensure that everything is ready for the
proper release date but i just have no idea about the various teams
schedules for that.  I thought they normally have it ready for the
betas but that wouldn't give them much time to do the work!

On the other hand it might be that you just didn't download the 2nd
package?  If you only downloaded the main installer then there should
be a 2nd download to get the help package.  If you are using
non-English (US) then i think you have a 3rd package for the User
Interface?

If you did download all the appropriate packages then you might have
installed them in the wrong order.  The main installer should be first
and then the other 2 in any order you like (i think).  With that sort
of thing i lose track of which to do first so i just redo the 1st one
after donig the others and that usually fixes it.

So, if you already have a download of the help package then just reinstall it.

Regards from
Tom :)





On 29 November 2013 12:42, Kolbjørn Stuestøl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Libreoffice 4.2.0.0 (beta 1).
> When I press F1 or "Help -> Help for LibreOffice" in the menu I get the
> online help (https://help.libreoffice.org/), not the inbuilt offline help.
> Any way to force the program to open offline help as in LO 4.1 or do I have
> to wait untill the next release of 4.2?
> I have not the knowledge to built my own version of 4.2.
> Running LO 4.2 on Windows 7. LO downloaded from
> http://www.libreoffice.org/download/pre-releases/
> Kolbjoern
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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>

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Kolbjørn Stuestøl Kolbjørn Stuestøl
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Re: No offline help 4.2.0.0

Den 29.11.2013 14:27, skreiv Tom Davies:
> Hi :)
> Which language?  It's possible that non-English(US) languages might
> still be being translated.  Even the English (US) one might possibly
> not be completely ready yet = which would make it difficult to
> translate!  There is a carefully thought out process and series of
> freezes for these things to ensure that everything is ready for the
> proper release date but i just have no idea about the various teams
> schedules for that.  I thought they normally have it ready for the
> betas but that wouldn't give them much time to do the work!
Thank you for answering, Tom.

Language Norwegian nynorsk (LANG=nn).
I am translating UI and help files to this language.
Later I'll download the English (original) version to give it a try.
Perhaps tomorrow. (There is a life outside LO too).
>
> On the other hand it might be that you just didn't download the 2nd
> package?  If you only downloaded the main installer then there should
> be a 2nd download to get the help package.  If you are using
> non-English (US) then i think you have a 3rd package for the User
> Interface?
As usual I downloaded the installation package (package no 1) using the
default settings which placed the program in C:Programfiles (x86) ->
LibreOfficeDev 4 folder. Second I installed the help packets nb, nn, and
en-US (C:Programfiles (x86) -> LibreOfficeDev 4 -> help). I found no 3rd
package.
I have not found the language files for UI in the LO folder. It looks
like the languages is integrated in some way in all the program files.
In other programs they usually are put in a separate share -> language
folder or something like that, but not so in LO.
>
> If you did download all the appropriate packages then you might have
> installed them in the wrong order.  The main installer should be first
> and then the other 2 in any order you like (i think).  With that sort
> of thing i lose track of which to do first so i just redo the 1st one
> after donig the others and that usually fixes it.
>
> So, if you already have a download of the help package then just reinstall it.
As mentioned above, I think I installed LO correct. I installed the
developer version just as previous versions. Normally I am doing my work
using LO 4.1. Running 4.2 only for translation works.

As a try I even used the Windows solution for solving all problems:
restarting the computer.
Kolbjoern

>
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
>
>
> On 29 November 2013 12:42, Kolbjørn Stuestøl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Libreoffice 4.2.0.0 (beta 1).
>> When I press F1 or "Help -> Help for LibreOffice" in the menu I get the
>> online help (https://help.libreoffice.org/), not the inbuilt offline help.
>> Any way to force the program to open offline help as in LO 4.1 or do I have
>> to wait untill the next release of 4.2?
>> I have not the knowledge to built my own version of 4.2.
>> Running LO 4.2 on Windows 7. LO downloaded from
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/download/pre-releases/
>> Kolbjoern

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Jay Lozier Jay Lozier
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

In reply to this post by anne-ology

On 11/29/2013 07:21 AM, anne-ology wrote:

>         But what I cannot understand is why the continual changing by any
> ...
>             to improve - ok; but this continual changing makes it nearly
> impossible to stay up-to-date;
>
>         forinstance, the typewriter basically stayed the same -
>             yes, they electrified it, even adding memory ... yet the
> operation of it remained as it had been  ;-)
>
>         forinstance, the automobile basically stayed the same -
>             yes, they switched the driver's seat, the ignition, horn, brake
> placements ... yet the operation of it remained as it had been -
>                 up until the electronics were added  ;-)
>
>         forinstance, the craftsman took pride in his workmanship -
>             then came advertising & the 'throw-away' society  ;-(
>
>         Are we better off with these changes or merely more 'n more confused
> & frustrated  ;-)
>
>         From me - the goofy, horse 'n buggy era-er  ;-)
+1

The problem is with many software packages the basic functionality has
been under development for 30+ years and for most packages the most
useful/needed features have been added many years ago. So companies like
MS are faced with how to convince/force users to stay on the upgrade
treadmill to maintain sales. Also, MS faces the problem that MSO is
dominant that they are likely to lose market share (and sales) in the
future.

>
> Date: Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 6:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office
>
>
> Hi :)
>
> Thanks Pedro :)  I am looking for criticism and for other points so
> that i can write a much shorter and less emotional list and maybe give
> a link to the "White Paper" that someone has been writing
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
> On 29 November 2013 00:06, Pedro <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Tom
>>
>>
>> Tom wrote
>>> 2.  The format stays the same between different versions of the
>>> program.  It is the same format used "natively" by many other programs
>>> such as IBM Lotus Symphony, Google-docs, K.Office, Calligra and
>>> others.  Even MS Office 2013, and more recent, can open and use the
>>> format which is an ISO format.
>> Actually this is not true. The file extension is the same but the format
> has
>> been changing (that is why you have options to save to ODF 1.0, 1.1, 1.2
> and
>> 1.2 Extended)
>> If you try to open an ODF 1.2 Extended file more complex than simple text
>> with any other of those programs (even with some older versions of
>> LibreOffice) you will find some incompatibilities...
>>
>> So, I agree with most of your points but this argument is shooting
> yourself
>> on the foot. ODF does share that problem with MS XML files: same
> extension,
>> different file structure.
>>
>> The advantage is that you can always get the latest LibreOffice version
> for
>> free (unlike MS Office...)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Pedro
>>

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M. Fioretti M. Fioretti
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

In reply to this post by jonathon-6
On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 18:00:31 PM -0800, tk wrote:

> And along those lines, is there still a person, or group that constructs:

> * A Pan-Indian LibO DVD.

Hi Jonathon, not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that there WERE such dvds, or that somebody SHOULD do them?

> >Many companies, especially charities, can buy MS Office for bargain
> >discount special deals.

> Microsoft's hypocracy in offering discounts for their software to
> charitable organizations has been well documented for more than a
> decade.

True: all NGOs should avoid making a mess with those donations, as I
too wrote here:

http://stop.zona-m.net/2010/10/note-to-all-ngos-please-dont-make-a-mess-with-microsoft-donations/

Of course, answering to the earlier poster, not Jonathon:

> >Is it morally right for a charity to expect it's service-users to
> >spend so much more money than they need to and thus ensure the
> >charity can keep getting special discounts?

*Big* charities often have the problems that Jonathon said. Very small
organizations, instead, need to spend zero time/money on
maintaining/re-learning the software they have to use, because it
would be all resources subtracted to working in the streets with the
people they assist. That's why they stick to proprietary software in
general, not just MSO.

         Marco
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Tom Tom
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Re: No offline help 4.2.0.0

In reply to this post by Kolbjørn Stuestøl
Hi :)
Rebooting solves many problem and not just in Windows.  It's even
helped me in Gnu&Linux once or twice.

With the Windows version of LibreOffice you don't get the 3rd download
because that 3rd one is included in the main installer.  I think that
to change the UI in Windows go to
Tools - Options - Languages - "Language Settings"
and change the top box to whichever language.  In Gnu&Linux it only
offers the ones you have deliberately downloaded as the 3rd package
but in Windows you get the choice of all of them automatically.  For
Windows you can choose to download LibreOffice in any language but
then use the route i described to switch to any other language (well,
almost any language)

Have you tried asking on the L10n mailing list to see what they
suggest?  It sounds like they are more likely to have experience with
this sort of issue.  I thought they translate the online help and then
someone packages that for them?

Also i thought you have to have the UI in a language in order for
LibreOffice to offer that language in the in-built help?  So if you
have the UI set to English (US) then it will be looking for the en-us
help package, fail to find it locally and therefore jump online for
you.  Except that you do have the en-us one so i don't know why it's
not finding that :(  Anyway, try changing to the correct Norwegian one
(not the other Norwegian one! (there are 2 aren't there)) and then
hopefully the help should work
Regards from
Tom :)





On 29 November 2013 15:41, Kolbjørn Stuestøl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Den 29.11.2013 14:27, skreiv Tom Davies:
>
>> Hi :)
>> Which language?  It's possible that non-English(US) languages might
>> still be being translated.  Even the English (US) one might possibly
>> not be completely ready yet = which would make it difficult to
>> translate!  There is a carefully thought out process and series of
>> freezes for these things to ensure that everything is ready for the
>> proper release date but i just have no idea about the various teams
>> schedules for that.  I thought they normally have it ready for the
>> betas but that wouldn't give them much time to do the work!
>
> Thank you for answering, Tom.
>
> Language Norwegian nynorsk (LANG=nn).
> I am translating UI and help files to this language.
> Later I'll download the English (original) version to give it a try. Perhaps
> tomorrow. (There is a life outside LO too).
>
>>
>> On the other hand it might be that you just didn't download the 2nd
>> package?  If you only downloaded the main installer then there should
>> be a 2nd download to get the help package.  If you are using
>> non-English (US) then i think you have a 3rd package for the User
>> Interface?
>
> As usual I downloaded the installation package (package no 1) using the
> default settings which placed the program in C:Programfiles (x86) ->
> LibreOfficeDev 4 folder. Second I installed the help packets nb, nn, and
> en-US (C:Programfiles (x86) -> LibreOfficeDev 4 -> help). I found no 3rd
> package.
> I have not found the language files for UI in the LO folder. It looks like
> the languages is integrated in some way in all the program files. In other
> programs they usually are put in a separate share -> language folder or
> something like that, but not so in LO.
>
>>
>> If you did download all the appropriate packages then you might have
>> installed them in the wrong order.  The main installer should be first
>> and then the other 2 in any order you like (i think).  With that sort
>> of thing i lose track of which to do first so i just redo the 1st one
>> after donig the others and that usually fixes it.
>>
>> So, if you already have a download of the help package then just reinstall
>> it.
>
> As mentioned above, I think I installed LO correct. I installed the
> developer version just as previous versions. Normally I am doing my work
> using LO 4.1. Running 4.2 only for translation works.
>
> As a try I even used the Windows solution for solving all problems:
> restarting the computer.
> Kolbjoern
>
>>
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 29 November 2013 12:42, Kolbjørn Stuestøl <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Libreoffice 4.2.0.0 (beta 1).
>>> When I press F1 or "Help -> Help for LibreOffice" in the menu I get the
>>> online help (https://help.libreoffice.org/), not the inbuilt offline
>>> help.
>>> Any way to force the program to open offline help as in LO 4.1 or do I
>>> have
>>> to wait untill the next release of 4.2?
>>> I have not the knowledge to built my own version of 4.2.
>>> Running LO 4.2 on Windows 7. LO downloaded from
>>> http://www.libreoffice.org/download/pre-releases/
>>> Kolbjoern
>
>
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Pedro Pedro
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

In reply to this post by doug-2
Hi Doug, all

doug-2 wrote
If you save your file in .doc 1997~2000 (or 1997~2003) every program will be
able to open it. Never use .docx.
Actually this is not true either. Saving as doc (but especially in docx) in LO sometimes produces a document that opens correctly in LO but can not be opened in MS Office (OR the MS warning message *wording* might lead the user to think that it can't/shouldn't be opened).

In any case, regardless of who is to be blamed, there is a "digital divide" that prevents MS and LO users to communicate...

IMHO the only way to change this is to send ODF files and ask the users at the other end to install a free ODF compatible software (LO or other) since it is costless, while refusing to do so means that on your end you would have to *buy* a software license from MS...

Cheers,
Pedro
Urmas D. Urmas D.
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

"Pedro":

...a free ODF compatible software (LO or other)

That's nonsense. There is the only one ODF software: OpenOffice and its
clones. The entire format is built around the single application from a
single vendor.



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mhenriday mhenriday
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013/11/30 Urmas <[hidden email]>

> "Pedro":
>
> ...a free ODF compatible software (LO or other)
>
> That's nonsense. There is the only one ODF software: OpenOffice and its
> clones. The entire format is built around the single application from a
> single vendor.
>

​Not «clones», Urmas, but forks. LO is not identical to OO, as we who use
it know....

Henri​

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Jay Lozier Jay Lozier
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

In reply to this post by Urmas D.

On 11/30/2013 10:44 AM, Urmas wrote:
> "Pedro":
>
> ...a free ODF compatible software (LO or other)
>
> That's nonsense. There is the only one ODF software: OpenOffice and
> its clones. The entire format is built around the single application
> from a single vendor.
>
>
The ODF is an ISO format with the full specification published for
anyone to use or implement. It is a recognized international standard.
It use or lack of use by vendors (MS specifically) is another issue. If
any national government wanted to force the issue they could mandate
that default format(s) for any software is the appropriate international
standard(s) for that type of file. If enough national governments
mandate this then MS will change their tune and "enthusiastically"
support the ODF standard.

Open, recognized standards, derived from one group or company's internal
specifications are not that uncommon. The Material Safety Data Sheet
specifications used by many governmental mandated safety programs was
originally developed by Dow Chemical for their own internal use. Many US
OSHA safety standards are actually industry standards adopted without
change from the original (US) industry group best practices and some of
these standards may have their origin in one company's practices.

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Phil Troy Phil Troy
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

In reply to this post by Urmas D.
Hi!

I noticed earlier that there was a brief mention of incompatability between libreoffice files and microsoft office files.  This is a major problem that has been going on for years and it is a major stumbling block to achieving the libreoffice goal "to eliminate the digital divide in society by giving everyone access to office productivity tools free of charge to enable them to participate as full citizens in the 21st century"

This issue has existed for years.  Importing files from microsoft office to libreoffice corrupts the files and documents.  This should have been fixed by somehow cleaning the imported document, even if it meant some loss of formatting, during the import process.  If the above goal is to be taken seriously, this needs to be one of the highest priorities.  Period.

Phil Troy


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jonathon-6 jonathon-6
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

In reply to this post by M. Fioretti


"M. Fioretti"  wrote:
>> And along those lines, is there still a person, or group that constructs:

>> * A Pan-Indian LibO DVD.

>Hi Jonathon, not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that there
WERE such dvds, or that somebody SHOULD do them?

Back in the days of OOo, they were such DVDs.


 
jonathon
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jonathon-6 jonathon-6
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

In reply to this post by Urmas D.


Urmas wrote:

> There is the only one ODF software: OpenOffice and its clones.

a)  The common base for the various OOo clones might be as recent as OOo 1.1.3, but I suspect it is several versions earlier.

b)  There are office suites that are not deroved from either OOo or MSO that fully implement ODF specifications and criteria.

>The entire format is built around the single application from a single vendor.

There is a reference implementation for the ODF file format.

There are two major, and a dozen or so minor variations of how that standard is to be implemented.

jonathon

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Urmas D. Urmas D.
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Re: moving to new version of MS Office

"tk":

b)  There are office suites that are not deroved from either OOo or MSO that
fully implement ODF specifications and criteria.

And those are... right, none.

There is a reference implementation for the ODF file format.

And it is called...



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