Roadmap - More structure, please!

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
49 messages Options
Next » 123
Ivan M. Ivan M.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Roadmap - More structure, please!

Hello all,

As we all know, there's a lot of design work to be done over the
coming months/year. Recently, we have had a broad, general roadmap
proposed, which is a good first step. However, there are specifics
that (IMHO) should be decided as early as possible so that we can
channel people's creativity into areas where they will confidently
have a good chance of making a difference and seeing their work in the
hands of LibO's users. So, this is one of the first discussions I
would like to continue here on the design list.

Just for reference, here is the proposed roadmap [1]:

* For LibO 3.3: Use the branding material what is available and refine
it according to the feedback that is available until now. We might be
able to provide essential and stable information for the other teams
(artwork, presentation material, portable LibO version). --> let's
call that "initial branding"
* From LibO 3.3. to 3.4: Finalize the branding stuff for "initial
branding" and further refine it (e.g. create missing MIME icons etc.)
and use it for the software. More important, start working on the
"community branding" (e.g. brainstorming, community values, demos,
agreement, ...).
* After LibO 3.5: Use the "community branding" and for both the
software and also for the web presence etc.

For 3.3, is there anything left to refine, and is there still time to
do it? For example, I noticed that the LibO installer icon comes in
only 32x32, which looks bad on versions of Windows where icons are
scalable - is there time to change things like that?

Between 3.4 and 3.5, there will be a transition from initial branding
to community branding, but we will supposedly already have new
mimetype icons in 3.4. If the community branding is different, the
we'll have a different set of icons in 3.3, 3.4 and 3.5. The examples
of community branding given are broad, but what about specifics, such
as the logo? We've already had lots of logo proposals; will the logo
be up for change between 3.4 and 3.5? If the community branding is
going to involve such a major overhaul, then I don't think spending
too much time refining initial branding would be a wise decision since
it's probably going to be dropped in 3.5.

Of course, this depends on the time spans we're talking about (i.e.,
will the time between 3.3 and 3.4 be the same as the time between 3.4
and 3.5). It also doesn't even begin to consider UI & UX changes - can
we expect any (bigger) UI changes in 3.4 and 3.5? Is there anything we
can start working on in that domain?

I don't mean to say that all these questions need to be answered now
(or that we need a super-detailed point-by-point roadmap to hold our
hands each step of the way). I'd like to see how many of the blurry
details can be brought into focus initially so that we can start
working on things that will have tangible results soon.

Regards,
Ivan.

[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Work_Items

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

marcpare4 marcpare4
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Roadmap - More structure, please!

Le 2010-11-22 04:53, Ivan M. a écrit :

> Hello all,
>
> As we all know, there's a lot of design work to be done over the
> coming months/year. Recently, we have had a broad, general roadmap
> proposed, which is a good first step. However, there are specifics
> that (IMHO) should be decided as early as possible so that we can
> channel people's creativity into areas where they will confidently
> have a good chance of making a difference and seeing their work in the
> hands of LibO's users. So, this is one of the first discussions I
> would like to continue here on the design list.
>
> Just for reference, here is the proposed roadmap [1]:
>
> * For LibO 3.3: Use the branding material what is available and refine
> it according to the feedback that is available until now. We might be
> able to provide essential and stable information for the other teams
> (artwork, presentation material, portable LibO version). -->  let's
> call that "initial branding"
> * From LibO 3.3. to 3.4: Finalize the branding stuff for "initial
> branding" and further refine it (e.g. create missing MIME icons etc.)
> and use it for the software. More important, start working on the
> "community branding" (e.g. brainstorming, community values, demos,
> agreement, ...).
> * After LibO 3.5: Use the "community branding" and for both the
> software and also for the web presence etc.
>
> For 3.3, is there anything left to refine, and is there still time to
> do it? For example, I noticed that the LibO installer icon comes in
> only 32x32, which looks bad on versions of Windows where icons are
> scalable - is there time to change things like that?
>
> Between 3.4 and 3.5, there will be a transition from initial branding
> to community branding, but we will supposedly already have new
> mimetype icons in 3.4. If the community branding is different, the
> we'll have a different set of icons in 3.3, 3.4 and 3.5. The examples
> of community branding given are broad, but what about specifics, such
> as the logo? We've already had lots of logo proposals; will the logo
> be up for change between 3.4 and 3.5? If the community branding is
> going to involve such a major overhaul, then I don't think spending
> too much time refining initial branding would be a wise decision since
> it's probably going to be dropped in 3.5.
>
> Of course, this depends on the time spans we're talking about (i.e.,
> will the time between 3.3 and 3.4 be the same as the time between 3.4
> and 3.5). It also doesn't even begin to consider UI&  UX changes - can
> we expect any (bigger) UI changes in 3.4 and 3.5? Is there anything we
> can start working on in that domain?
>
> I don't mean to say that all these questions need to be answered now
> (or that we need a super-detailed point-by-point roadmap to hold our
> hands each step of the way). I'd like to see how many of the blurry
> details can be brought into focus initially so that we can start
> working on things that will have tangible results soon.
>
> Regards,
> Ivan.
>
> [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Work_Items
>
Hi Ivan:

This page should also be used as reference:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Work_Items

I believe the SC is also referring to this page for updates on the
progress of the work mentioned on the page.

Marc

--
Marc Paré
http://www.parEntreprise.com


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Roadmap - More structure, please!

In reply to this post by Ivan M.
Hi Ivan!

Thanks for starting / continuing the idea of a better roadmap!

Am Montag, den 22.11.2010, 22:53 +1300 schrieb Ivan M.:

> Hello all,
>
> As we all know, there's a lot of design work to be done over the
> coming months/year. Recently, we have had a broad, general roadmap
> proposed, which is a good first step. However, there are specifics
> that (IMHO) should be decided as early as possible so that we can
> channel people's creativity into areas where they will confidently
> have a good chance of making a difference and seeing their work in the
> hands of LibO's users. So, this is one of the first discussions I
> would like to continue here on the design list.

Absolutely! One thing I'd like to clarify in advance (or at least in
parallel), is the collaboration between Design and Marketing. There have
been lots of mails - I consider to talk about that in my very next mail.

> Just for reference, here is the proposed roadmap [1]:
[... roadmap ...]

> For 3.3, is there anything left to refine, and is there still time to
> do it? For example, I noticed that the LibO installer icon comes in
> only 32x32, which looks bad on versions of Windows where icons are
> scalable - is there time to change things like that?

Oh, there are some more important things ... like the application icons,
or the MIME type icons. Some of us might accept the old OOo icons to
serve as placeholders, but if anybody comes up with a viable alternative
(that continues the design language of the LibO branding and the old
icons), it might be possible to ship them (he said that, without having
talked to the development or even QA).

> Between 3.4 and 3.5, there will be a transition from initial branding
> to community branding, but we will supposedly already have new
> mimetype icons in 3.4. If the community branding is different, the
> we'll have a different set of icons in 3.3, 3.4 and 3.5. The examples
> of community branding given are broad, but what about specifics, such
> as the logo? We've already had lots of logo proposals; will the logo
> be up for change between 3.4 and 3.5? If the community branding is
> going to involve such a major overhaul, then I don't think spending
> too much time refining initial branding would be a wise decision since
> it's probably going to be dropped in 3.5.

Well, since we don't have all required items yet (e.g. presentation
material), there is no time spent un-wisely ;-) However, the better the
initial branding is, the better the first impression within our user
base ... and the more relaxing will be (and better in terms of quality)
the transition from initial to community branding.

> Of course, this depends on the time spans we're talking about (i.e.,
> will the time between 3.3 and 3.4 be the same as the time between 3.4
> and 3.5). It also doesn't even begin to consider UI & UX changes - can
> we expect any (bigger) UI changes in 3.4 and 3.5? Is there anything we
> can start working on in that domain?

Let's say that UI changes (improvements) are to be expected - but I
consider them rather small. We already do have developer asking for the
famous "UX easy hacks". Here, we'll require some input by people who
have some experience with usability and GUI design ... e.g. to pick up
some of the requests that are already available (there has been a
message concerning that on one of the lists ... mmmh ... I should should
look up my own mails).

> I don't mean to say that all these questions need to be answered now
> (or that we need a super-detailed point-by-point roadmap to hold our
> hands each step of the way). I'd like to see how many of the blurry
> details can be brought into focus initially so that we can start
> working on things that will have tangible results soon.

I'd be happy if somebody could step in to support the work on a refined
plan. As we already discussed on the marketing list, we need the
"community briefing" (goals, values, ...) serving as input, the schedule
of the website team, and ... Furthermore, I do have an idea how we can
make the visual artwork within LibO rock (in comparison to the past).
I'll post that later ... and here, we do need dev support.

> Regards,
> Ivan.

Cheers,
Christoph

> [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Work_Items
>



--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

bedipp bedipp
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Roadmap - More structure, please!

Hi Christoph, Ivan, all

Christoph Noack schrieb:
> Hi Ivan!
>
> Thanks for starting / continuing the idea of a better roadmap!

+1 !

I'll stay with LibO 3.3 for the moment, as this is the most pressing
action item IMHO.

>
> Am Montag, den 22.11.2010, 22:53 +1300 schrieb Ivan M.:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> [...] Recently, we have had a broad, general roadmap
>> proposed, which is a good first step. However, there are specifics
>> that (IMHO) should be decided as early as possible so that we can
>> channel people's creativity [...]
>> Just for reference, here is the proposed roadmap [1]:
> [... roadmap ...]
>
>> For 3.3, is there anything left to refine, and is there still time to
>> do it? For example, I noticed that the LibO installer icon comes in
>> only 32x32, which looks bad on versions of Windows where icons are
>> scalable - is there time to change things like that?

*Graphics included in the product*

I think Christoph has done a great job in creating the fist version of
these graphics:

- Start center
- About box
- Installer graphics for Windows, Linux and Mac

I didn't manage to download and install Beta 3 by now, so I can't say if
there is anything left to update these graphics and adapt them to the
new contemporary style.

Reading Christoph's blog and knowing him for some time I think they are
all up-to-date: ;-)
http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/11/libreoffice-33-artwork-improvements_18.html

>
*New Mimetype and Document Icons*

> Oh, there are some more important things ... like the application icons,
> or the MIME type icons. Some of us might accept the old OOo icons to
> serve as placeholders, but if anybody comes up with a viable alternative
> (that continues the design language of the LibO branding and the old
> icons), it might be possible to ship them (he said that, without having
> talked to the development or even QA).

I'd love to see new LibO icons (still as placeholders) to avoid people
thinking we're going back to OOo3.0 not only with visuals but with
content too.

The number of necessary icons can be seen if you look at the galaxy
mimetype icon page:
http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo30MimeType.html

But these have been the icons for OOo3.0. Since OOo3.2.1 the document
icons have been replaced by the ODF icons, and if yo u look at this
list, I can't imagine, that they can be replaced in appropriate time:
http://odftoolkit.org/projects/operations/sources/repository/show/odficons2?rev=3

For design, I like Ivan's second proposal best:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding/Mimetype_Icons/Proposals#Second_Draft

They don't introduce any new metaphors, but repeat the existing interim
design, so they can be replaced together with the other initial branding
by the community branding.

I don't know how much it takes to adapt them to the latest color scheme
and to create the icons still missing (different sizes, math, high
contrast). For document icons we could use the mimetype icons at the
moment (perhaps with only the border of the upper right corner),
templates should look a bit differently.

If we could agree on documents using the unchanged mimetype icons, the
"empty corner" icons could be used for the templates.

Ivan - Do you think such work is manageable?

Can you provide the sources (or did you already)?

Does anybody know about the time left to integrate them in the sources
for LibO 3.3 ?


*Promotional Material*

Nearly as important as the icons is artwork and marketing material based
on the initial branding.

We need

- Web buttons
- Web banners
- Posters
- Flyers
- Presentation Template (already done)
- CD labels and covers
- Stickers and Merchandising (important for fairs and "launch parties")

- a dedicated area to present them
(similar to what I did for OOo:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Art/Gallery)

Probably I forgot something important - please add your thoughts and ideas.

And when we decided about our wiki pages structure (discussed on the
marketing list), we should create a page containing these points...

Best regards

Bernhard

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

Ivan M. Ivan M.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Roadmap - More structure, please!

Hi Bernhard, Chirstoph, all,

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Bernhard Dippold
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> [...]
>
> *Graphics included in the product*
>
> I think Christoph has done a great job in creating the fist version of these
> graphics:

+1.

> - Start center
> - About box
> - Installer graphics for Windows, Linux and Mac
>
> I didn't manage to download and install Beta 3 by now, so I can't say if
> there is anything left to update these graphics and adapt them to the new
> contemporary style.
>
> Reading Christoph's blog and knowing him for some time I think they are all
> up-to-date: ;-)
> http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/11/libreoffice-33-artwork-improvements_18.html

Unfortunately I didn't see any of the new graphics in Beta 3. I know
the progressbar in Christoph's graphic doesn't match the actual
progressbar (of course, that's really easy to fix)... but it makes me
worry that it takes time to get these things into the final version,
which is why I'm unsure about how much room/time there is for further
change in 3.3

> *New Mimetype and Document Icons*
>
>> Oh, there are some more important things ... like the application icons,
>> or the MIME type icons. Some of us might accept the old OOo icons to
>> serve as placeholders, but if anybody comes up with a viable alternative
>> (that continues the design language of the LibO branding and the old
>> icons), it might be possible to ship them (he said that, without having
>> talked to the development or even QA).
>
> I'd love to see new LibO icons (still as placeholders) to avoid people
> thinking we're going back to OOo3.0 not only with visuals but with content
> too.
>
> The number of necessary icons can be seen if you look at the galaxy mimetype
> icon page:
> http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo30MimeType.html

Thanks for this little reminder of just how much there is to do :P

> But these have been the icons for OOo3.0. Since OOo3.2.1 the document icons
> have been replaced by the ODF icons, and if yo u look at this list, I can't
> imagine, that they can be replaced in appropriate time:
> http://odftoolkit.org/projects/operations/sources/repository/show/odficons2?rev=3
>
> For design, I like Ivan's second proposal best:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding/Mimetype_Icons/Proposals#Second_Draft
>
> They don't introduce any new metaphors, but repeat the existing interim
> design, so they can be replaced together with the other initial branding by
> the community branding.
>
> I don't know how much it takes to adapt them to the latest color scheme and
> to create the icons still missing (different sizes, math, high contrast).
> For document icons we could use the mimetype icons at the moment (perhaps
> with only the border of the upper right corner), templates should look a bit
> differently.
>
> If we could agree on documents using the unchanged mimetype icons, the
> "empty corner" icons could be used for the templates.
>
> Ivan - Do you think such work is manageable?

I wouldn't like to start anything without getting a clear signal from
the devs/QA as to just how much time we have to do this - if there's
not much time, then I'd prefer to avoid rushing. For example, has the
new color pallet been OK'd in terms of accessibility (i.e, will they
meet the needs of colorblind users?).

At the same time, the concept itself is pretty simple, so if we are OK
in terms of timeframe and accessibility, then I have nothing against
putting in some time for this. But we'd need (at least) a small team
to work through this.

> Can you provide the sources (or did you already)?

I could export the shapes, but they're roughly traced - it'd probably
be quicker to recreate it in Inkscape using the logo SVG sources and
it'd be pixel perfect.

> [... promotional materials... I might leave that for a later email]

Regards,
Ivan.

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Product Artwork (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Roadmap - More structure, please!)

Hi Ivan, Bernhard, Thorsten!

@ Thorsten: I shamelessly CCed you, so maybe you can answer a question
concerning the LibO 3.3 timeline? If possible, so thanks in advance :-)

Am Mittwoch, den 24.11.2010, 16:04 +1300 schrieb Ivan M.:
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Bernhard Dippold
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
[...]

> > I didn't manage to download and install Beta 3 by now, so I can't say if
> > there is anything left to update these graphics and adapt them to the new
> > contemporary style.
> >
> > Reading Christoph's blog and knowing him for some time I think they are all
> > up-to-date: ;-)
> > http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/11/libreoffice-33-artwork-improvements_18.html
>
> Unfortunately I didn't see any of the new graphics in Beta 3. I know
> the progressbar in Christoph's graphic doesn't match the actual
> progressbar (of course, that's really easy to fix)...

Ouch, Bernhard. To be honest, I am kept busy with all the mails: the
website stuff, some requests at the LibreOffice dev lists, collecting
further ideas (not yet published). So I use very small time slots to
progress with the branding.

According Thorsten, there is still enough time to get this implemented
(I checked this in advance, to have an excuse for my laziness) :-)

[...]

> > *New Mimetype and Document Icons*
> >
> >> Oh, there are some more important things ... like the application icons,
> >> or the MIME type icons.

[... discussion on icons development for LibO 3.3 ...]

> > Ivan - Do you think such work is manageable?
>
> I wouldn't like to start anything without getting a clear signal from
> the devs/QA as to just how much time we have to do this - if there's
> not much time, then I'd prefer to avoid rushing.

Thorsten, the question to you - is implementing a set of preliminary
icons possible. Will there be another beta to make sure that everything
works fine? Or should we forget about the idea of different icons (to be
honest, if we could come up with own icons, this would make the LibO
release perfect).

> For example, has the
> new color pallet been OK'd in terms of accessibility (i.e, will they
> meet the needs of colorblind users?).

Although we did not judge the visual experience with real people that do
have color vision problems, but Johannes created some simulated versions
of the color palette. Available here:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Color_blindness_issues

In my reply, I asked whether we can come up with "preferred" color
combinations that still work effectively ... No reply yet ;-)
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentation.libreoffice.marketing/1045

> At the same time, the concept itself is pretty simple, so if we are OK
> in terms of timeframe and accessibility, then I have nothing against
> putting in some time for this. But we'd need (at least) a small team
> to work through this.

Sounds good :-)

Cheers,
Christoph


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

Thorsten Behrens Thorsten Behrens
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Product Artwork (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Roadmap - More structure, please!)

Christoph Noack wrote:

> > I wouldn't like to start anything without getting a clear signal from
> > the devs/QA as to just how much time we have to do this - if there's
> > not much time, then I'd prefer to avoid rushing.
>
> Thorsten, the question to you - is implementing a set of preliminary
> icons possible. Will there be another beta to make sure that everything
> works fine? Or should we forget about the idea of different icons (to be
> honest, if we could come up with own icons, this would make the LibO
> release perfect).
>
Hi Chris, all,

hm, slightly disconnected from the whole icon topic - what's the
scope, surely not a complete icon set? If this is only about some
10-20 icons, and you folks are quick, that could be doable - I've
heard other people asking for another beta, too.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

Ivan M. Ivan M.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Product Artwork (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Roadmap - More structure, please!)

Hi Thorsten, Christoph, all,

On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Thorsten Behrens
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> [...]
> Hi Chris, all,
>
> hm, slightly disconnected from the whole icon topic - what's the
> scope, surely not a complete icon set? If this is only about some
> 10-20 icons, and you folks are quick, that could be doable - I've
> heard other people asking for another beta, too.

The scope would involve mimetype (file) icons - 28 in total according
to [1]... of course, with at least half a dozen sizes per icon, that
number escalates a bit. In short, it involves new icons for
applications, documents and templates. So (presumably) there'd be 3
different designs (one design for applications, one for documents, and
one for templates) and the only thing that would differ between the
different icons under each design would be the color, application icon
and size. The design part wouldn't be hard, it'd just be a somewhat
mechanical process to create all the variations. At least, that's how
it goes in theory :)

Regards,
Ivan.

[1] http://ui.openoffice.org/nonav/VisualDesign/OOo30MimeType.html

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

bedipp bedipp
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]

Hi Ivan, Thorsten, *

Ivan M. schrieb:

> Hi Thorsten, Christoph, all,
>
> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Thorsten Behrens
> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> [...]
>> Hi Chris, all,
>>
>> hm, slightly disconnected from the whole icon topic - what's the
>> scope, surely not a complete icon set? If this is only about some
>> 10-20 icons, and you folks are quick, that could be doable - I've
>> heard other people asking for another beta, too.

So let's speak about a few days (until Monday or Tuesday?) - would
integration will be possible?

I don't know about Ivan's time, but I would spend any time I can afford,
because I think this is one of the most visible areas of LibreOffice at all.
>
> The scope would involve mimetype (file) icons - 28 in total according
> to [1]... of course, with at least half a dozen sizes per icon, that
> number escalates a bit.

Even if the different sizes would be good to be crafted one by one, it
is more important that we have them at all.

I think we should have 16x16 and 32x32 created pixel-wise, while larger
icons can be exported from the same SVG source.

> In short, it involves new icons for
> applications, documents and templates. So (presumably) there'd be 3
> different designs (one design for applications, one for documents, and
> one for templates)

In my eyes all the three icons should be based on a common design.

As already mentioned, I like Ivan's second draft best, because it uses
the graphical elements of the initial branding without introducing
anything different or new.

What I'd like to see is:

The icons should get the shading of the new logo (and their corners
should be rounded as in the logo) and get the official branding colors.

We need to find a color scheme for the Math icon and the Chart document
icon. For Math Blue3 might be a possibility, but I don't think that this
would work very well.

Probably we need to define different colors for both icons.

With regards to application, document and template icons:

Is it really necessary to have a different icon set for the applications
and the "normal" documents?

Both open the same application - the one with a document name just
starts with an open document.

If we could start with the same icons for application and document, we
would only need to differ between document and template icons (this
seems to be a more important difference to me).

As an easy approach I'd just remove the filling of the colored corner
for templates.

For future icons a much more detailed and sophisticated approach could
be chosen. But for the time being we definitively need the work done -
not to discuss the best possible approach for several days or weeks...

Ivan, Christoph, everybody else: Do you have an other / better proposal
we can agree upon during the next hours ?

Ivan: Could you upload the sources (perhaps already with the shading
integrated?) so that we can share the work on the icons among several
people?

Who would be interested to do a piece of the work (I think Inkscape
would be the source for larger icons, Inkscape or GIMP for the 32x32 and
16x16 ones)?

Best regards

Bernhard


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

bedipp bedipp
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]

Going to bed now - if anybody wants to use what I started to work on,
here is the SVG source file:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Bedipp/Drafts

Bernhard Dippold schrieb:
> [...]
>
> As an easy approach I'd just remove the filling of the colored corner
> for templates.

That's what I did by now - and used the present branding colors, added
Blue3 for Math and a dark green for Chart documents/templates.

I imagine some kind of inverted filling of the icons (becoming lighter
in general) - perhaps with inverted symbols too...

Fell free to use my work as a basis for yours, or Ivan's (if he could
share his sources - I don't want to recreate the symbols being simple
and recognizable).

We should have a basic design tomorrow or at least on Saturday in order
to create the different sizes (and perhaps high contrast icons too).

Best regards

Bernhard

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]

In reply to this post by bedipp
Hi Bernhard,

I already decided to go to bed ... so just a few thoughts.

Am Donnerstag, den 25.11.2010, 23:03 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
> Ivan, Christoph, everybody else: Do you have an other / better
> proposal we can agree upon during the next hours ?

You proposals look fine for me. But, do we really need additional colors
for less used applications / files like Math, Macros, HTML, Global
Documents, ... Wouldn't it be better to use a neutral gray (and only for
those icons)?

In contrast to the ODF approach, this would even help to better identify
the "real" documents. And, it would also reduce the amount of initial
work to be spent.

The only question to me is, whether we want to use the "original"
Document Symbol for that. The branding guidelines currently state to not
modify the document symbol - so maybe changing the "edge" back to mimic
a default icon?

And of course: Thank you both! It seems that you both don't need any
sleep ;-)

Good night!
Christoph


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

bedipp bedipp
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]

Hi Christoph,

Christoph Noack schrieb:
> Hi Bernhard,
>
> I already decided to go to bed ... so just a few thoughts.

Me too ;-)
>
> Am Donnerstag, den 25.11.2010, 23:03 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
>> Ivan, Christoph, everybody else: Do you have an other / better
>> proposal we can agree upon during the next hours ?
>
> You proposals look fine for me. But, do we really need additional colors
> for less used applications / files like Math, Macros, HTML, Global
> Documents, ... Wouldn't it be better to use a neutral gray (and only for
> those icons)?

As Math seems to be an independent application (with it's own file
extension) I thought it would be necessary. Same for Chart documents.

But these thoughts derive from the Galaxy icons - I don't mind at all,
if we stay grey/neutral with all of the less used icons.
>
> In contrast to the ODF approach, this would even help to better identify
> the "real" documents. And, it would also reduce the amount of initial
> work to be spent.
>
> The only question to me is, whether we want to use the "original"
> Document Symbol for that. The branding guidelines currently state to not
> modify the document symbol - so maybe changing the "edge" back to mimic
> a default icon?

The "empty corner" idea was only meant for template icons - document and
application icons should have the "filled corner" as the default icons.

I thought it would be an easy approach to differentiate between
documents and templates while keeping the branding language.

But you might be right that this could be regarded as "allowed
modification to the symbol" for other use-cases too.

I'm indecisive at the moment - it depends on how we modify the main part
of the icons...
>
> And of course: Thank you both! It seems that you both don't need any
> sleep ;-)

I definitely do!

Good night!

Bernhard

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

Ivan M. Ivan M.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]

Hi Christoph, Bernhard, all,

I wonder if we could work together some time over a few hours on
something like IRC - at least initially. I will be online tomorrow
from around 9pm your time (CET), so if you happen to be free, reply to
this thread with the mode of communication you prefer, or a different
time that suits you. I, for one, am not very experienced with Inkscape
so it would be useful to swap files between each other as we work on
them - of course anyone interested is welcome to join and we can keep
the list updated with all progress.

Regards,
Ivan.

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

marcpare4 marcpare4
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]

Le 2010-11-26 04:51, Ivan M. a écrit :

> Hi Christoph, Bernhard, all,
>
> I wonder if we could work together some time over a few hours on
> something like IRC - at least initially. I will be online tomorrow
> from around 9pm your time (CET), so if you happen to be free, reply to
> this thread with the mode of communication you prefer, or a different
> time that suits you. I, for one, am not very experienced with Inkscape
> so it would be useful to swap files between each other as we work on
> them - of course anyone interested is welcome to join and we can keep
> the list updated with all progress.
>
> Regards,
> Ivan.
>
You may want to arrange for a dedicated irc channel. It would probably
be more efficient and won' t confuse other members on the main LO irc
channel. If the channel is always available then, at the very least,
will give the design team members channel access to work with.

Marc

--
Marc Paré
http://www.parEntreprise.com


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

bedipp bedipp
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]

In reply to this post by Ivan M.
Ivan M. schrieb:
> Hi Christoph, Bernhard, all,
>
> I wonder if we could work together some time over a few hours on
> something like IRC - at least initially. I will be online tomorrow
> from around 9pm your time (CET), so if you happen to be free, reply to
> this thread with the mode of communication you prefer, or a different
> time that suits you.

I'll try to be at IRC.

Bernhard

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

Ivan M. Ivan M.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]

Hi Bernhard, Christoph,

On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Bernhard Dippold
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ivan M. schrieb:
>>
>> Hi Christoph, Bernhard, all,
>>
>> I wonder if we could work together some time over a few hours on
>> something like IRC - at least initially. I will be online tomorrow
>> from around 9pm your time (CET), so if you happen to be free, reply to
>> this thread with the mode of communication you prefer, or a different
>> time that suits you.
>
> I'll try to be at IRC.

Aargh, my bad. I got the time right, but I got the date wrong (I was
hoping for a reply 24 hours ago)! I will be out most of the day today
- I was just about to leave and I saw this. I'll try to do some more
work on this and upload a file tonight (that will be early Sunday
morning for you) - use this opportunity to catch up on your sleep :)

Regards,
Ivan.

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

bedipp bedipp
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]

Sorry Ivan, timeshift problem...

I just updated my SVG with a first version of a Writer icon:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Template_icon_draft.svg

Will be working on the next icons during the next hours...

Best

Bernhard

Ivan M. schrieb:

> Hi Bernhard, Christoph,
>
> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Bernhard Dippold
> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Ivan M. schrieb:
>>>
>>> Hi Christoph, Bernhard, all,
>>>
>>> I wonder if we could work together some time over a few hours on
>>> something like IRC - at least initially. I will be online tomorrow
>>> from around 9pm your time (CET), so if you happen to be free, reply to
>>> this thread with the mode of communication you prefer, or a different
>>> time that suits you.
>>
>> I'll try to be at IRC.
>
> Aargh, my bad. I got the time right, but I got the date wrong (I was
> hoping for a reply 24 hours ago)! I will be out most of the day today
> - I was just about to leave and I saw this. I'll try to do some more
> work on this and upload a file tonight (that will be early Sunday
> morning for you) - use this opportunity to catch up on your sleep :)
>
> Regards,
> Ivan.
>

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]

Hi Ivan, hi Bernhard!

Just an "argh", since I just read your message. Yesterday, I visited
some frieds, today I fiddled around with MythTV and a huge stack of
organization stuff (that has been pushed forward some weeks). And to
avoid LibO distraction, I didn't even touch the keyboard :-)

So sorry for having not noticed your mail (besides any timezone issue).

Am Samstag, den 27.11.2010, 21:07 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
> Will be working on the next icons during the next hours...

By the way, if something is really important, ping anybody within the
TDF or Bernhard. They can easily get in touch with me via phone...

Cheers,
Christoph


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

bedipp bedipp
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Initial icon design

In reply to this post by bedipp
Hi Ivan, Christoph, all,

Bernhard Dippold schrieb:
> [...]
> Will be working on the next icons during the next hours...

Here what I managed to create.

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Bedipp/Drafts

Please consider this as first draft - some of the colored gradients are
still too dark, so the symbols are not easily to discriminate in small
sizes.

If the general design is valid to continue working on it, I'd start to
resize the icons, modify the gradients (perhaps only in small sizes) and
think about the still lacking icons for Math application and Math,
Chart, Master, HTML and Macro documents.

Best regards

Bernhard

PS: I'm quite curious about Ivan's work: Perhaps we can combine the
positive aspects of both our efforts and create the ultimate iconset...

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

Ivan M. Ivan M.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]

In reply to this post by bedipp
Hi Bernhard, Christoph, all,

This is a little late, but when putting things into practice, small
details come up.

First, the good part: I managed to get some headway in Inkscape and
create basic designs for 16x16 and 32x32 document icons that are
pixel-perfect (the preview image doesn't show this) [1]. They're
missing the application icons - I tried to adapt existing ones from my
own designs and Bernhard's designs, but in order to be pixel-perfect,
they have to be drawn specially for smaller icon sizes, otherwise
there is quite a lot of distortion, particularly at 16x16. Since I'm
no good at manipulating objects in Inkscape, I'll leave that for
someone more skilled.

Now, the ambiguous part: working with the color pallet at [2], I found
some small points of possible improvement. Mostly that applies to
perceived lightness of colors (which, in my experience, is not always
equivalent to the actual luminosity value in the HSL color model). For
example, Green 4 appears much lighter than Blue 4, so that a gradient
that goes from Green 4 to Green 3 appears more distinct than a
gradient that goes from Blue 4 to Blue 3. At the same time, a gradient
from Blue 2 to Blue 1 appears darker than a gradient going from Green
2 to Green 1 - try it out and let me know if you see it that way too.

Based on this, I created a reference image [3] that (for me at least)
had the greatest apparent consistency between designs. It's imperfect,
but out of all the possible combinations, this worked best
subjectively. That doesn't mean I propose we use these colors, but
rather that we make small adjustments to the existing color table. It
would be ideal if we could use the same corresponding colors from each
set of colors (i.e. use Blue 1 for the Writer icon where Green 1 is
used in the Calc icon...)

I will comment on Bernhard's design tomorrow - hopefully what I just
wrote makes some sense :)

Regards,
Ivan.

[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:IvanIconDraft.svg
[2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Color_Table
[3] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/9/9d/IvanIconDraftReference.png

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***

Next » 123