Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

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Anthony Papillion Anthony Papillion
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Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?


I've been thinking a lot about this lately as many of my clients are coming to LibreOffice from Microsoft Office and I deal with both packages quite a bit. Many times, one of the first things I do once LibreOffice is set up is to show clients how to save in Microsoft format as opposed to .odf. It's actually one of the first questions they ask. Lately, I've been wondering about the wisdom of an open source package actively supporting a secret format like the Office ones.

Would it not be preferable to support *only* saving in the open document format and then providing a plugin for Microsoft Office users who needed it? IMHO, allowing users to save in secret formats just continues the problem. They're still using proprietary software, just packaged a different way.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Anthony
     
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Onyeibo Oku-2 Onyeibo Oku-2
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

Makes sense but u need to be able to reach others. I think the edge is in supporting a broader range of options not just the vendors. Those moving to opensource solutions need an air of security that they are not isolated from the rest of the world

---------------------------------------------
from [hidden email] :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Papillion <[hidden email]>
Sender: <[hidden email]>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:28:27
To: LibreOffice Mailing List<[hidden email]>
Reply-To: [hidden email]
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?


I've been thinking a lot about this lately as many of my clients are coming to LibreOffice from Microsoft Office and I deal with both packages quite a bit. Many times, one of the first things I do once LibreOffice is set up is to show clients how to save in Microsoft format as opposed to .odf. It's actually one of the first questions they ask. Lately, I've been wondering about the wisdom of an open source package actively supporting a secret format like the Office ones.

Would it not be preferable to support *only* saving in the open document format and then providing a plugin for Microsoft Office users who needed it? IMHO, allowing users to save in secret formats just continues the problem. They're still using proprietary software, just packaged a different way.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Anthony
     
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Gordon Burgess-Parker Gordon Burgess-Parker
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Anthony Papillion
On 10/09/2011 20:28, Anthony Papillion wrote:
> I've been thinking a lot about this lately as many of my clients are coming to LibreOffice from Microsoft Office and I deal with both packages quite a bit. Many times, one of the first things I do once LibreOffice is set up is to show clients how to save in Microsoft format as opposed to .odf. It's actually one of the first questions they ask. Lately, I've been wondering about the wisdom of an open source package actively supporting a secret format like the Office ones.
>
> Would it not be preferable to support *only* saving in the open document format and then providing a plugin for Microsoft Office users who needed it? IMHO, allowing users to save in secret formats just continues the problem. They're still using proprietary software, just packaged a different way.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Anthony
>    
There was an ENORMOUS discussion about this on the tdf-discuss list on
20 July this year.
You can see the thread here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@.../msg07427.html


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Anthony Papillion-2 Anthony Papillion-2
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RE: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Onyeibo Oku-2

I agree, but is not supporting saving in secret formats really isolating them from the rest of the world? Especially if the other software can read the open format, wouldn't it be preferable to just tell them 'don't worry about it, you're compatible' and leave it at that? Besides, I'd think that creating a plugin that helps Microsoft Offices users read .odf files is a lot easier than constantly playing catchup with the secret Microsoft formats.

Anthony

----------------------------------------

> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?
> To: [hidden email]
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 19:45:02 +0000
>
> Makes sense but u need to be able to reach others. I think the edge is in supporting a broader range of options not just the vendors. Those moving to opensource solutions need an air of security that they are not isolated from the rest of the world
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> from [hidden email] :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Papillion <[hidden email]>
> Sender: <[hidden email]>
> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:28:27
> To: LibreOffice Mailing List<[hidden email]>
> Reply-To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [libreoffice-users] Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?
>
>
> I've been thinking a lot about this lately as many of my clients are coming to LibreOffice from Microsoft Office and I deal with both packages quite a bit. Many times, one of the first things I do once LibreOffice is set up is to show clients how to save in Microsoft format as opposed to .odf. It's actually one of the first questions they ask. Lately, I've been wondering about the wisdom of an open source package actively supporting a secret format like the Office ones.
>
> Would it not be preferable to support *only* saving in the open document format and then providing a plugin for Microsoft Office users who needed it? IMHO, allowing users to save in secret formats just continues the problem. They're still using proprietary software, just packaged a different way.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Anthony
>
> --
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>
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Dennis E. Hamilton Dennis E. Hamilton
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RE: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Anthony Papillion

Which formats to you consider to still be secret?  Microsoft has provided free-to-the-public, downloadable specifications for a great number of formats and protocols.  

Have you checked the lists of those?

[I am not objecting to the plug-in strategy either way, just wondering whether secrecy of formats applies these days.]

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Anthony Papillion
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 12:28
To: LibreOffice Mailing List
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?


I've been thinking a lot about this lately as many of my clients are coming to LibreOffice from Microsoft Office and I deal with both packages quite a bit. Many times, one of the first things I do once LibreOffice is set up is to show clients how to save in Microsoft format as opposed to .odf. It's actually one of the first questions they ask. Lately, I've been wondering about the wisdom of an open source package actively supporting a secret format like the Office ones.

Would it not be preferable to support *only* saving in the open document format and then providing a plugin for Microsoft Office users who needed it? IMHO, allowing users to save in secret formats just continues the problem. They're still using proprietary software, just packaged a different way.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Anthony
     
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Anthony Papillion Anthony Papillion
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RE: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?


Hi Dennis,

While I haven't looked at the list, I'd have to guess that the entirety of the MSO file formats probably isn't documented since we don't have 100% MSO compatibility in any open source office suite. Microsoft has done a good job of opening up a lot of their specifications, but there is still more work to be done.

Anthony

----------------------------------------

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: RE: [libreoffice-users] Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?
> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 13:14:57 -0700
>
>
> Which formats to you consider to still be secret? Microsoft has provided free-to-the-public, downloadable specifications for a great number of formats and protocols.
>
> Have you checked the lists of those?
>
> [I am not objecting to the plug-in strategy either way, just wondering whether secrecy of formats applies these days.]
>
> - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Anthony Papillion
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 12:28
> To: LibreOffice Mailing List
> Subject: [libreoffice-users] Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?
>
>
> I've been thinking a lot about this lately as many of my clients are coming to LibreOffice from Microsoft Office and I deal with both packages quite a bit. Many times, one of the first things I do once LibreOffice is set up is to show clients how to save in Microsoft format as opposed to .odf. It's actually one of the first questions they ask. Lately, I've been wondering about the wisdom of an open source package actively supporting a secret format like the Office ones.
>
> Would it not be preferable to support *only* saving in the open document format and then providing a plugin for Microsoft Office users who needed it? IMHO, allowing users to save in secret formats just continues the problem. They're still using proprietary software, just packaged a different way.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Anthony
>
> --
> For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: [hidden email]
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>
>
> --
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Spencer Graves-2 Spencer Graves-2
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

This question was studied in considerable detail by Carl Shapiro and Hal
Varian (1998) Information rules:  a strategic guide to the network
economy (Harvard U. Pr.).  In brief, Shapiro and Varian say that
organizations with a small market share need to make the effort to make
it as easy as possible for others to use their product.  Organizations
with a dominant market share may make more money being arrogant, making
it as difficult as possible for their customers to try a competitor's
product.  Spencer


On 9/10/2011 1:51 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:

> Hi Dennis,
>
> While I haven't looked at the list, I'd have to guess that the entirety of the MSO file formats probably isn't documented since we don't have 100% MSO compatibility in any open source office suite. Microsoft has done a good job of opening up a lot of their specifications, but there is still more work to be done.
>
> Anthony
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: RE: [libreoffice-users] Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?
>> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 13:14:57 -0700
>>
>>
>> Which formats to you consider to still be secret? Microsoft has provided free-to-the-public, downloadable specifications for a great number of formats and protocols.
>>
>> Have you checked the lists of those?
>>
>> [I am not objecting to the plug-in strategy either way, just wondering whether secrecy of formats applies these days.]
>>
>> - Dennis
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Anthony Papillion
>> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 12:28
>> To: LibreOffice Mailing List
>> Subject: [libreoffice-users] Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?
>>
>>
>> I've been thinking a lot about this lately as many of my clients are coming to LibreOffice from Microsoft Office and I deal with both packages quite a bit. Many times, one of the first things I do once LibreOffice is set up is to show clients how to save in Microsoft format as opposed to .odf. It's actually one of the first questions they ask. Lately, I've been wondering about the wisdom of an open source package actively supporting a secret format like the Office ones.
>>
>> Would it not be preferable to support *only* saving in the open document format and then providing a plugin for Microsoft Office users who needed it? IMHO, allowing users to save in secret formats just continues the problem. They're still using proprietary software, just packaged a different way.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Anthony
>>
>> --
>> For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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>>


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krackedpress krackedpress
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Anthony Papillion

To be honest, MSO is not going to go away.  So the question would be if
you want LO to be able to be used in the modern office environment?  I
remember when OOo did not read .doc files.  No one wanted to use it
[among my group of people] if it could not read/write MSO files.  When
OOo was able to read MSO files, then people were willing to try it.

So now with the modern office, the ability to read/write any files your
people are using with MSO with your open source office package gives
that package an edge.  I use LO by default, since MSO does not work on
Ubuntu.  Also, the newest version of MSO I have used/owned was 2003.  
The next thing is that I never really thought that MSO's "x" formats
were something they really needed.  I tell people not to use those
formats that came out with MSO 2007.

Now that LO reads and writes most of the MSO file formats, people can
use it instead of MSO in their offices and still will be able to deal
with these type of files from their workers and the people who send them
these office files.

IF LO, OOo, or any other FOSS office package, did not read/write MSO
formats, then people would never want to use it in the office or at home
if they ever would need to read/write these formats.

SO FOSS office packages must read/write MSO files.  Without it, the
market for LO [and OOo] would go down to almost ZERO.


On 09/10/2011 04:51 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:

> Hi Dennis,
>
> While I haven't looked at the list, I'd have to guess that the entirety of the MSO file formats probably isn't documented since we don't have 100% MSO compatibility in any open source office suite. Microsoft has done a good job of opening up a lot of their specifications, but there is still more work to be done.
>
> Anthony
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: RE: [libreoffice-users] Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?
>> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 13:14:57 -0700
>>
>>
>> Which formats to you consider to still be secret? Microsoft has provided free-to-the-public, downloadable specifications for a great number of formats and protocols.
>>
>> Have you checked the lists of those?
>>
>> [I am not objecting to the plug-in strategy either way, just wondering whether secrecy of formats applies these days.]
>>
>> - Dennis
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Anthony Papillion
>> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 12:28
>> To: LibreOffice Mailing List
>> Subject: [libreoffice-users] Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?
>>
>>
>> I've been thinking a lot about this lately as many of my clients are coming to LibreOffice from Microsoft Office and I deal with both packages quite a bit. Many times, one of the first things I do once LibreOffice is set up is to show clients how to save in Microsoft format as opposed to .odf. It's actually one of the first questions they ask. Lately, I've been wondering about the wisdom of an open source package actively supporting a secret format like the Office ones.
>>
>> Would it not be preferable to support *only* saving in the open document format and then providing a plugin for Microsoft Office users who needed it? IMHO, allowing users to save in secret formats just continues the problem. They're still using proprietary software, just packaged a different way.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Anthony
>>
>> --
>> For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: [hidden email]
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>>
>>
>> --
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>    


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Andrew Douglas Pitonyak Andrew Douglas Pitonyak
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Anthony Papillion
On 09/10/2011 03:28 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
> I've been thinking a lot about this lately as many of my clients are coming to LibreOffice from Microsoft Office and I deal with both packages quite a bit. Many times, one of the first things I do once LibreOffice is set up is to show clients how to save in Microsoft format as opposed to .odf. It's actually one of the first questions they ask. Lately, I've been wondering about the wisdom of an open source package actively supporting a secret format like the Office ones.
>
> Would it not be preferable to support *only* saving in the open document format and then providing a plugin for Microsoft Office users who needed it? IMHO, allowing users to save in secret formats just continues the problem. They're still using proprietary software, just packaged a different way.
>
> Thoughts?
I know very few people that are able to function without the ability to
read or produce a DOC type file. Consider how it would affect you if you
could no longer read/write text files, CSV files, PDF files, any graphic
image other than say PNG.

--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php


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nabbler nabbler
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Anthony Papillion
See the following proposal:
http://www.mail-archive.com/website@.../msg05999.html

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Dotan Cohen Dotan Cohen
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Anthony Papillion
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 22:28, Anthony Papillion <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I've been thinking a lot about this lately as many of my clients are coming to LibreOffice from Microsoft Office and I deal with both packages quite a bit. Many times, one of the first things I do once LibreOffice is set up is to show clients how to save in Microsoft format as opposed to .odf. It's actually one of the first questions they ask. Lately, I've been wondering about the wisdom of an open source package actively supporting a secret format like the Office ones.
>
> Would it not be preferable to support *only* saving in the open document format and then providing a plugin for Microsoft Office users who needed it? IMHO, allowing users to save in secret formats just continues the problem. They're still using proprietary software, just packaged a different way.
>
> Thoughts?
>

Which MS Office file format is secret? They are all published here:
http://www.microsoft.com/interop/docs/officebinaryformats.mspx

LibreOffice does not support them because there are not enough LO
contributors, not because the formats are secret.

--
Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il
http://what-is-what.com

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soumalya ray soumalya ray
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Anthony Papillion-2
yes;in an ideal world.but then in an ideal world proprietary software would
not have existed

On 11 September 2011 01:38, Anthony Papillion <[hidden email]>wrote:

>
> I agree, but is not supporting saving in secret formats really isolating
> them from the rest of the world? Especially if the other software can read
> the open format, wouldn't it be preferable to just tell them 'don't worry
> about it, you're compatible' and leave it at that? Besides, I'd think that
> creating a plugin that helps Microsoft Offices users read .odf files is a
> lot easier than constantly playing catchup with the secret Microsoft
> formats.
>
> Anthony
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Should LibreOffice even support
> Microsoft secret formats?
> > To: [hidden email]
> > From: [hidden email]
> > Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 19:45:02 +0000
> >
> > Makes sense but u need to be able to reach others. I think the edge is in
> supporting a broader range of options not just the vendors. Those moving to
> opensource solutions need an air of security that they are not isolated from
> the rest of the world
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > from [hidden email] :)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Anthony Papillion <[hidden email]>
> > Sender: <[hidden email]>
> > Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:28:27
> > To: LibreOffice Mailing List<[hidden email]>
> > Reply-To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: [libreoffice-users] Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft
> secret formats?
> >
> >
> > I've been thinking a lot about this lately as many of my clients are
> coming to LibreOffice from Microsoft Office and I deal with both packages
> quite a bit. Many times, one of the first things I do once LibreOffice is
> set up is to show clients how to save in Microsoft format as opposed to
> .odf. It's actually one of the first questions they ask. Lately, I've been
> wondering about the wisdom of an open source package actively supporting a
> secret format like the Office ones.
> >
> > Would it not be preferable to support *only* saving in the open document
> format and then providing a plugin for Microsoft Office users who needed it?
> IMHO, allowing users to save in secret formats just continues the problem.
> They're still using proprietary software, just packaged a different way.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Anthony
> >
> > --
> > For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to:
> [hidden email]
> > Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
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> deleted
> >
> >
> > --
> > For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to:
> [hidden email]
> > Problems?
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Tinkerer Tinkerer
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Dotan Cohen
The answer is obvious. Save in odf and get used to using odf.
When there is a requirement to use an MS suffix,use Save As to do a copy in doc or docx, but keep your copy in odf.

Tink.
Spencer Graves-2 Spencer Graves-2
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

       For me, the answer is NOT obvious, because of (a) the occasional
incompatibilities and (b) the things that are easier in MS Office than
LibreOffice.  I've had problems with LibreOffice where I save something
in *.doc format or *.ppt and reopen it, and it's different.  Also, I've
been using Open Office / LibreOffice regularly for 1.5 years now, and I
still cannot find how to control bullets and numbering as easily as I
could with MS Office.  For any document I have to send to a collaborator
who uses MS Office, I need to keep it primarily in the MS format to
increase the chances that I will at least know what is being changed
without warning!


       For example, in LibreOffice 3.4.3 Impress, create a dashed line
and save it in MS PowerPoint 97 format.  Close then reopen it.  When I
did that just now under Windows 7 x64, the line style was lost and it
displayed solid.  If I do NOT have to share it with an MS Office user,
then I keep it in Open Office format.  Otherwise, I must convert at some
point to MS format, and I should do that regularly at least until I
identify at least one incompatibility problem.


       Best Wishes,
       Spencer


On 9/11/2011 7:54 AM, Tinkerer wrote:

> The answer is obvious. Save in odf and get used to using odf.
> When there is a requirement to use an MS suffix,use Save As to do a copy in
> doc or docx, but keep your copy in odf.
>
> Tink.
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Should-LibreOffice-even-support-Microsoft-secret-formats-tp3325743p3326996.html
> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>


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Andrew Douglas Pitonyak Andrew Douglas Pitonyak
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Anthony Papillion-2
On 09/10/2011 04:08 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
> I agree, but is not supporting saving in secret formats really isolating them from the rest of the world? Especially if the other software can read the open format, wouldn't it be preferable to just tell them 'don't worry about it, you're compatible' and leave it at that? Besides, I'd think that creating a plugin that helps Microsoft Offices users read .odf files is a lot easier than constantly playing catchup with the secret Microsoft formats.
When you have a deliverable in a MSO format, then you must deliver in an
MSO format. This is often not negotiable.

If I spend you a document and then tell you "yeah, now here is a list of
steps to download and install a plug-in that I sure hope works on your
version of MSO and operating system", well, you just the non-technical
people.

I know people that still use Word Perfect, so then we would need an ODF
reader for them as well.

Even well established products have issues when they do not support
legacy formats. As an example, look at Apple when they released their
latest video editing software and did not support previous file formats.

MSO even had issues when there was no support for the DOCX format
between other versions.

The only company that I have seen successfully do this is Photo Shop. I
understand that if you have photo shop deliverables, then you really
need to use exactly the same version as that used by the client. Pretty
much everyone else that does this seems to have problems in the market.

--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php


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Andrew Douglas Pitonyak Andrew Douglas Pitonyak
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Spencer Graves-2
Spencer,

Any chance you can create a few simple examples and open a bug against
the simple examples?

On 09/11/2011 11:31 AM, Spencer Graves wrote:

>       For me, the answer is NOT obvious, because of (a) the occasional
> incompatibilities and (b) the things that are easier in MS Office than
> LibreOffice.  I've had problems with LibreOffice where I save
> something in *.doc format or *.ppt and reopen it, and it's different.  
> Also, I've been using Open Office / LibreOffice regularly for 1.5
> years now, and I still cannot find how to control bullets and
> numbering as easily as I could with MS Office.  For any document I
> have to send to a collaborator who uses MS Office, I need to keep it
> primarily in the MS format to increase the chances that I will at
> least know what is being changed without warning!
>
>
>       For example, in LibreOffice 3.4.3 Impress, create a dashed line
> and save it in MS PowerPoint 97 format.  Close then reopen it.  When I
> did that just now under Windows 7 x64, the line style was lost and it
> displayed solid.  If I do NOT have to share it with an MS Office user,
> then I keep it in Open Office format.  Otherwise, I must convert at
> some point to MS format, and I should do that regularly at least until
> I identify at least one incompatibility problem.
>
>
>       Best Wishes,
>       Spencer

--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php


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Dotan Cohen Dotan Cohen
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Anthony Papillion
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 22:28, Anthony Papillion <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I've been thinking a lot about this lately as many of my clients are coming to LibreOffice from Microsoft Office and I deal with both packages quite a bit. Many times, one of the first things I do once LibreOffice is set up is to show clients how to save in Microsoft format as opposed to .odf. It's actually one of the first questions they ask. Lately, I've been wondering about the wisdom of an open source package actively supporting a secret format like the Office ones.
>
> Would it not be preferable to support *only* saving in the open document format and then providing a plugin for Microsoft Office users who needed it? IMHO, allowing users to save in secret formats just continues the problem. They're still using proprietary software, just packaged a different way.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Anthony
>

Which MS Office file format is secret? They are all published here:
http://www.microsoft.com/interop/docs/officebinaryformats.mspx

LibreOffice does not support them because there are not enough LO
contributors, not because the formats are secret.

--
Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il
http://what-is-what.com

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Spencer Graves-2 Spencer Graves-2
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Andrew Douglas Pitonyak
Hi, Andrew:


       Thanks for asking.  Attached please find a single slide in
LibreOffice Impress consisting of a single dashed line.  When I saved it
in MS Office 97 ppt format and reopened it in LibreOffice Impress 3.4.3,
the dashes were converted visually to solid.  When I checked the line
style, it reported nothing (not solid, as it had when I drew it before I
changed it).


       Other problems I've had were with previous versions, and I have
not yet confirmed them in v. 3.4.3.  I will do that.


       Spencer


On 9/11/2011 9:19 AM, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak wrote:

> Spencer,
>
> Any chance you can create a few simple examples and open a bug against
> the simple examples?
>
> On 09/11/2011 11:31 AM, Spencer Graves wrote:
>>       For me, the answer is NOT obvious, because of (a) the
>> occasional incompatibilities and (b) the things that are easier in MS
>> Office than LibreOffice.  I've had problems with LibreOffice where I
>> save something in *.doc format or *.ppt and reopen it, and it's
>> different.  Also, I've been using Open Office / LibreOffice regularly
>> for 1.5 years now, and I still cannot find how to control bullets and
>> numbering as easily as I could with MS Office.  For any document I
>> have to send to a collaborator who uses MS Office, I need to keep it
>> primarily in the MS format to increase the chances that I will at
>> least know what is being changed without warning!
>>
>>
>>       For example, in LibreOffice 3.4.3 Impress, create a dashed line
>> and save it in MS PowerPoint 97 format.  Close then reopen it.  When
>> I did that just now under Windows 7 x64, the line style was lost and
>> it displayed solid.  If I do NOT have to share it with an MS Office
>> user, then I keep it in Open Office format.  Otherwise, I must
>> convert at some point to MS format, and I should do that regularly at
>> least until I identify at least one incompatibility problem.
>>
>>
>>       Best Wishes,
>>       Spencer
>


--
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President and Chief Technology Officer
Structure Inspection and Monitoring, Inc.
751 Emerson Ct.
San José, CA 95126
ph:  408-655-4567
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soumalya ray soumalya ray
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Spencer Graves-2
>
> For example, in LibreOffice 3.4.3 Impress, create a dashed line and save it
> in MS PowerPoint 97 format.  Close then reopen it.  When I did that just now
> under Windows 7 x64, the line style was lost and it displayed solid.

just checked it in both LO 3.3.4 and 3.4.3.'97 format (ie,ppt) showing the
dashed line as dashed line when opened in LO.when the file is saved into
.pptx,the dashed line is getting converted into a solid one.
so,for me,'97 format is working properly.
anybody else having difficulty with '97 format????????
regards,


On 11 September 2011 21:01, Spencer Graves <[hidden email]>wrote:

>      For me, the answer is NOT obvious, because of (a) the occasional
> incompatibilities and (b) the things that are easier in MS Office than
> LibreOffice.  I've had problems with LibreOffice where I save something in
> *.doc format or *.ppt and reopen it, and it's different.  Also, I've been
> using Open Office / LibreOffice regularly for 1.5 years now, and I still
> cannot find how to control bullets and numbering as easily as I could with
> MS Office.  For any document I have to send to a collaborator who uses MS
> Office, I need to keep it primarily in the MS format to increase the chances
> that I will at least know what is being changed without warning!
>
>
>      For example, in LibreOffice 3.4.3 Impress, create a dashed line and
> save it in MS PowerPoint 97 format.  Close then reopen it.  When I did that
> just now under Windows 7 x64, the line style was lost and it displayed
> solid.  If I do NOT have to share it with an MS Office user, then I keep it
> in Open Office format.  Otherwise, I must convert at some point to MS
> format, and I should do that regularly at least until I identify at least
> one incompatibility problem.
>
>
>      Best Wishes,
>      Spencer
>
>
>
> On 9/11/2011 7:54 AM, Tinkerer wrote:
>
>> The answer is obvious. Save in odf and get used to using odf.
>> When there is a requirement to use an MS suffix,use Save As to do a copy
>> in
>> doc or docx, but keep your copy in odf.
>>
>> Tink.
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://nabble.**
>> documentfoundation.org/Should-**LibreOffice-even-support-**
>> Microsoft-secret-formats-**tp3325743p3326996.html<http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Should-LibreOffice-even-support-Microsoft-secret-formats-tp3325743p3326996.html>
>> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>
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Johnny Rosenberg Johnny Rosenberg
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Re: Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?

In reply to this post by Spencer Graves-2
2011/9/11 Spencer Graves <[hidden email]>:
>      For me, the answer is NOT obvious, because of (a) the occasional
> incompatibilities and (b) the things that are easier in MS Office than
> LibreOffice.

How is that not obvious? Just continue using MS Office, or did I miss something?



Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ

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