Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

One thing I am finding infuriating about the Silverstripe UI is the
commit comments popup.

Commit comments are very important for us to allow tracking and
reasoning/discussion about changes made to the site. In fact, one
might say they are the backbone of a versioning system.

The thing that bugs me is that I cannot change tabs in order to copy
text or insert a link reference once the comments popup is displayed.
Is anyone else finding this incredibly annoying?

Does anyone know if there is an option in Silverstripe to put the
commit comments inside the native UI rather than having an archaic
javascript popup?

I am at my wits end and am about to block the popup completely, which
would result in lack of versioning functionality?

Michael Wheatland

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Alex Thurgood Alex Thurgood
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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

Le 26/01/11 11:11, Michael Wheatland a écrit :

Hi Michael,

> The thing that bugs me is that I cannot change tabs in order to copy
> text or insert a link reference once the comments popup is displayed.
> Is anyone else finding this incredibly annoying?
>

In all honesty, yes.


Alex


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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
Hi Michael, *,

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Michael Wheatland
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The thing that bugs me is that I cannot change tabs in order to copy
> text or insert a link reference once the comments popup is displayed.
> Is anyone else finding this incredibly annoying?

No - as why would you still need to copy something when you're done
with your work and want to publish it?

There is no such popup for saving the page without publishing, in your
"will continue editing, but save now because I want to do something
else in the meantime".

Even if you would, you could just hit "cancel" to abort/dismiss the
dialog, do your copy'n'paste and then use save&publish once again.

> Does anyone know if there is an option in Silverstripe to put the
> commit comments inside the native UI rather than having an archaic
> javascript popup?

Well, I see no point in having it somewhere "inside" the UI, as this
would be more troublesome to use. You always would have to
scroll/visit the tab-page with that control and that would be far more
frustrating IMHO.

> I am at my wits end and am about to block the popup completely, which
> would result in lack of versioning functionality?

Sorry, but I really don't get your problem. If you're not done with
the work, then don't publish. As easy as that.
If you want to paste something into the comment-box, copy it before
hitting save & publish, that isn't that hard to adapt to, is it?
just hit cancel, dialog is away, copy, hit save&publish and paste. Is
that really so annoying?

ciao
Christian

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

> Sorry, but I really don't get your problem. If you're not done with
> the work, then don't publish. As easy as that.
> If you want to paste something into the comment-box, copy it before
> hitting save & publish, that isn't that hard to adapt to, is it?
> just hit cancel, dialog is away, copy, hit save&publish and paste. Is
> that really so annoying?
>
> ciao
> Christian

Having a popup which stops me using my browser is very annoying.

Is this a Silverstripe bug?

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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

Hi Michael, *,

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Michael Wheatland
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Having a popup which stops me using my browser is very annoying.
>
> Is this a Silverstripe bug?

Well - when it's working as designed, you cannot really call it a bug, can you?

But I'll see how much effort it is to turn that one into a non-modal one.

ciao
Christian

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 6:15 AM, Christian Lohmaier
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Michael, *,
>
> On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Michael Wheatland
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Having a popup which stops me using my browser is very annoying.
>>
>> Is this a Silverstripe bug?
>
> Well - when it's working as designed, you cannot really call it a bug, can you?
>
> But I'll see how much effort it is to turn that one into a non-modal one.
>
It just seems to be an inconsistency with the UI, it holds you out
from doing other things in your browser while the popup is active.

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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

Hi *,

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 11:31 PM, Michael Wheatland
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 6:15 AM, Christian Lohmaier
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> But I'll see how much effort it is to turn that one into a non-modal one.
>>
> It just seems to be an inconsistency with the UI, it holds you out
> from doing other things in your browser while the popup is active.

It's using a regular javascript "prompt" call, if someone has a quick
replacement at hand and save me some digging around....

i.e. anyone got code for a modeless prompt at hand, using jquery maybe?

 var message = prompt("promptText", "");

→ javascript prompt dialog that is modal, i.e. blocks interaction with
the parent window (the browser) unless the dialog is dismissed

ciao
Christian

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Christian Lohmaier
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi *,
>
> On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 11:31 PM, Michael Wheatland
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 6:15 AM, Christian Lohmaier
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> But I'll see how much effort it is to turn that one into a non-modal one.
>>>
>> It just seems to be an inconsistency with the UI, it holds you out
>> from doing other things in your browser while the popup is active.
>
> It's using a regular javascript "prompt" call, if someone has a quick
> replacement at hand and save me some digging around....
>
> i.e. anyone got code for a modeless prompt at hand, using jquery maybe?
>
>  var message = prompt("promptText", "");
>
> → javascript prompt dialog that is modal, i.e. blocks interaction with
> the parent window (the browser) unless the dialog is dismissed

Are you custom coding the popup?

I don't think that we should be altering the CMS core code. Isn't
there any options for this behaviour in Silverstripe?

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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

Hi Michael, *,

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:43 AM, Michael Wheatland
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Christian Lohmaier
> <[hidden email]> wrote:

>>> i.e. anyone got code for a modeless prompt at hand, using jquery maybe?
>>
>>  var message = prompt("promptText", "");
>>
>> → javascript prompt dialog that is modal, i.e. blocks interaction with
>> the parent window (the browser) unless the dialog is dismissed
>
> Are you custom coding the popup?

??? No - the prompt is a simple javascript function. Just paste
<script type="text/javascript">
 prompt("prompttext", "defaultvalue");
</script>

into the HTML-box at http://jsfiddle.net and compare - the dialog you
get is modal

> I don't think that we should be altering the CMS core code.

Well - it is not the core, just the function that reads the dialog,
but I wonder how you would change an unwanted behaviour without
changing the code that is causing it.

> Isn't
> there any options for this behaviour in Silverstripe?

An option to tell the browser to reinterpret the javascript functions?
No, how should that work?

Again: The function uses the simple javascript "prompt" command to get
the dialog. This javascript function (part of "vanilla" javascript) is
a modal dialog.

I don't know what kind of configuration you think that would magically
change this...

ciao
Christian

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Rimas Kudelis Rimas Kudelis
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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

2011.01.27 15:55, Christian Lohmaier rašė:

> Hi Michael, *,
>
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:43 AM, Michael Wheatland
> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Christian Lohmaier
>> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>> i.e. anyone got code for a modeless prompt at hand, using jquery maybe?
>>>   var message = prompt("promptText", "");
>>>
>>> → javascript prompt dialog that is modal, i.e. blocks interaction with
>>> the parent window (the browser) unless the dialog is dismissed
>> Are you custom coding the popup?
> ??? No - the prompt is a simple javascript function. Just paste
> <script type="text/javascript">
>   prompt("prompttext", "defaultvalue");
> </script>
>
> into the HTML-box at http://jsfiddle.net and compare - the dialog you
> get is modal
>
>> I don't think that we should be altering the CMS core code.
> Well - it is not the core, just the function that reads the dialog,
> but I wonder how you would change an unwanted behaviour without
> changing the code that is causing it.
>
>> Isn't
>> there any options for this behaviour in Silverstripe?
> An option to tell the browser to reinterpret the javascript functions?
> No, how should that work?
>
> Again: The function uses the simple javascript "prompt" command to get
> the dialog. This javascript function (part of "vanilla" javascript) is
> a modal dialog.
>
> I don't know what kind of configuration you think that would magically
> change this...

I think what Michael expects is an option that affects SilverStripe's
behavior, not browser's. E.g. instead of prompt(), SilverStripe would
then use some other method.

Rimas

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

In reply to this post by Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 11:25 PM, Christian Lohmaier
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Michael, *,
>
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:43 AM, Michael Wheatland
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Christian Lohmaier
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>>> i.e. anyone got code for a modeless prompt at hand, using jquery maybe?
>>>
>>>  var message = prompt("promptText", "");
>>>
>>> → javascript prompt dialog that is modal, i.e. blocks interaction with
>>> the parent window (the browser) unless the dialog is dismissed
>>
>> Are you custom coding the popup?
>
> ??? No - the prompt is a simple javascript function. Just paste
> <script type="text/javascript">
>  prompt("prompttext", "defaultvalue");
> </script>
>
> into the HTML-box at http://jsfiddle.net and compare - the dialog you
> get is modal
>
>> I don't think that we should be altering the CMS core code.
>
> Well - it is not the core, just the function that reads the dialog,
> but I wonder how you would change an unwanted behaviour without
> changing the code that is causing it.
>
>> Isn't
>> there any options for this behaviour in Silverstripe?
>
> An option to tell the browser to reinterpret the javascript functions?
> No, how should that work?
>
> Again: The function uses the simple javascript "prompt" command to get
> the dialog. This javascript function (part of "vanilla" javascript) is
> a modal dialog.
>
> I don't know what kind of configuration you think that would magically
> change this...
>
> ciao
> Christian

Rimas is correct, I was referring to Silverstripe's behaviour.

It might just be that I am used to using systems which have vast
libraries of options for UI and functionality.
One very good example: http://drupal.org/documentation/modules/overlay
Which allows multiple UI elements to 'popup' without interrupting your
browsing experience.

If this is a non-pluggable part of the Silverstripe UI, I don't expect
you to do anything about it. I just think it is poorly implemented UI
and was looking for other options to improve our experience.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

Hi Michael,

please try to work on your quoting, the fullquotes are a very bad habit...

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 2:37 AM, Michael Wheatland
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 11:25 PM, Christian Lohmaier
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:43 AM, Michael Wheatland
>
> Rimas is correct, I was referring to Silverstripe's behaviour.

This is not silverstripe, but just how javascript behaves.

> If this is a non-pluggable part of the Silverstripe UI, I don't expect
> you to do anything about it. I just think it is poorly implemented UI
> and was looking for other options to improve our experience.

That's bullshit, sorry. When there is a "bug" (in this case in your
eyes a usability bug), it should be fixed.
Calling it "poorly implemented UI" because you have a strong opinion
about it (and others don't care/can live with it) is strongly biased.

Again: Why should there be multiple different UI layers to manage?
That is stupid to do. Have one UI that works and be it. As you might
have noticed in other places, silverstripe is not always using a
javascript prompt. Just that specific feature does.

Seeing your chance to bash silverstripe because of it, great, you got
your fun. Now please get back to being objective and talking in a
reasonable fashion.

ciao
Christian

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Christian Lohmaier
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>> If this is a non-pluggable part of the Silverstripe UI, I don't expect
>> you to do anything about it. I just think it is poorly implemented UI
>> and was looking for other options to improve our experience.
>
> That's bullshit, sorry. When there is a "bug" (in this case in your
> eyes a usability bug), it should be fixed.
> Calling it "poorly implemented UI" because you have a strong opinion
> about it (and others don't care/can live with it) is strongly biased.

It is not Bulldust, we are not here to work on the Silverstripe
project, we are the LibreOffice project.
If you wish to submit it as a bug to the Silverstripe project, please
feel free. I however don't feel the need.
And in my opinion it is poorly implemented UI, it may seem like bull
to you, but I feel that is a hindrance to my web experience.

> Again: Why should there be multiple different UI layers to manage?
> That is stupid to do. Have one UI that works and be it. As you might
> have noticed in other places, silverstripe is not always using a
> javascript prompt. Just that specific feature does.

Are you suggesting that it should be easy to change? If so I might
consider submitting a bug.

> Seeing your chance to bash silverstripe because of it, great, you got
> your fun. Now please get back to being objective and talking in a
> reasonable fashion.

I am not Bashing Silverstripe, I am simply raising my concerns
regarding the web infrastructure that we are using, which we can
hopefully fix.
We are the website team and I would expect that everyone on the team
raises all issues they find in order to improve the systems that we
use.
I am sorry you don't feel that way about a bug report, but I encourage
you to also look critically at all the tools we are using, it's only
healthy.

Michael Wheatland

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Narayan Aras Narayan Aras
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RE: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup


I would like to bring a fresh perspective to this debate:

The pop up comes as the final step when someone submits changes. The box is designed as modal for a SPECIAL purpose: You are NOT supposed to submit any change without a justification/remark.

Making it modal actually preserves the overall state while the CMS allows you to add your comment. Were it not modal, you would be able to do something with the CMS, in which case you may not be clear what you are saving.

Therefore, IMHO it would be unwise to make this window modeless even if this is technically possible.

Note that submitting remarks is a standard practice with any VCS (Version Control System).
The version control subsystem INSIDE the CMS behaves in the same way.

****
Now it is a different matter if this box misbehaves (it did not in my case).  


Regards,
Narayan



     
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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Narayan Aras <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I would like to bring a fresh perspective to this debate:
> The pop up comes as the final step when someone submits changes. The box is designed as modal for a SPECIAL purpose: You are NOT supposed to submit any change without a justification/remark.
> Making it modal actually preserves the overall state while the CMS allows you to add your comment. Were it not modal, you would be able to do something with the CMS, in which case you may not be clear what you are saving.
> Therefore, IMHO it would be unwise to make this window modeless even if this is technically possible.
>
> Note that submitting remarks is a standard practice with any VCS (Version Control System).
> The version control subsystem INSIDE the CMS behaves in the same way.
>
> ****
> Now it is a different matter if this box misbehaves (it did not in my case).

The box does not misbehave, it works as specified, I was just
wondering if there was a more elegant modal dialogue which would popup
inside the window rather than lockout the entire browser.
It does not sound like there is.

Now that someone has explained why it was implemented that way I
understand the reasoning.
I still would like to copy and paste links in there from other tabs.
ie. discussion links on Nabble.
Guess I will just have to remember to copy the link prior to hitting
save or I will be stuck.

Thanks Narayan,

Michael Wheatland

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Harri Pitkänen Harri Pitkänen
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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

On Friday 28 January 2011, Michael Wheatland wrote:
> Now that someone has explained why it was implemented that way I
> understand the reasoning.
> I still would like to copy and paste links in there from other tabs.
> ie. discussion links on Nabble.
> Guess I will just have to remember to copy the link prior to hitting
> save or I will be stuck.

By the way, I just noticed this behavior is browser dependent. In Firefox 4.0
beta 8 "prompt" gives you a quite nice looking (somewhat JQuery-style) modal
dialog and you can still switch to other tabs while the dialog is open.
According to this related Mozilla bug

  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59314

at least Opera has the same feature too.

Harri

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

2011/1/28 Harri Pitkänen <[hidden email]>:

> On Friday 28 January 2011, Michael Wheatland wrote:
>> Now that someone has explained why it was implemented that way I
>> understand the reasoning.
>> I still would like to copy and paste links in there from other tabs.
>> ie. discussion links on Nabble.
>> Guess I will just have to remember to copy the link prior to hitting
>> save or I will be stuck.
>
> By the way, I just noticed this behavior is browser dependent. In Firefox 4.0
> beta 8 "prompt" gives you a quite nice looking (somewhat JQuery-style) modal
> dialog and you can still switch to other tabs while the dialog is open.
> According to this related Mozilla bug
>
>  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59314
>
> at least Opera has the same feature too.
>
> Harri

Now we are getting down to the nitty gritty of the situation.
I will search through the chromium bugs to see if this has been
submitted there also.
If not I will submit the bug report myself.

Thanks for the very positive and constructive research and response Harri.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
Hi Michael,

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 5:31 AM, Michael Wheatland
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Christian Lohmaier
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> [...]
> I am simply raising my concerns
> regarding the web infrastructure that we are using, which we can
> hopefully fix.

Well, you don't want me to change the behavior, so without changing
the code, the prompt will stay the same. And yes, changing it would
involve modifying a small part of the CMS system. But if you prefer,
you can call it "customizing the cms" instead.

> We are the website team and I would expect that everyone on the team
> raises all issues they find in order to improve the systems that we
> use.
> I am sorry you don't feel that way about a bug report, but I encourage
> you to also look critically at all the tools we are using, it's only
> healthy.

Well - what you write doesn't make any sense at all. Again:
* You complain about the modal prompt
* I propse to change it
* You don't want me to change thte CMS' code

ciao
Christian

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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Christian Lohmaier
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Well - what you write doesn't make any sense at all. Again:
> * You complain about the modal prompt
> * I propse to change it
> * You don't want me to change thte CMS' code

To give some context,I subscribe to the view that hacking the core CMS
code means that you 'might' introduce new bugs, resulting in something
that cannot be supported by the CMS community.
It is an extreme example, but say someone altered the code of
LibreOffice, broke it, then came complaining to us about it being
broken and wanted us to fix it.
Also when you start hacking the core code, then you are creating a
code branch which you, or the community who comes after you will have
to maintain for security and functionality, which is not always
possible given the resources.

This is almost a religion within the Drupal community, and hacking the
core is seen as blasphemy.
If you wish to add or modify functionality you write a module which
does what you want via one of the many APIs, just as you would with a
LibreOffice extension.

IMO if you can't do something without hacking the core you don't do
it. If you still need it, you have chosen the wrong system to work on.

Michael Wheatland

Post Script:
I am not trying to have a go at Silverstripe, simply explaining the
context of your statement and my total opposition to changing core
code.
I don't know if the Silverstripe APIs are functional enough to cope
with these types of changes, maybe someone can shed some light on
this?

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Re: Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

Hi Michael, *,

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:15 AM, Michael Wheatland
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> To give some context,I subscribe to the view that hacking the core CMS
> code means that you 'might' introduce new bugs, resulting in something
> that cannot be supported by the CMS community.

cmsworkflow is already a module, so not "core", thus it would be OK?

> [...]
> I don't know if the Silverstripe APIs are functional enough to cope
> with these types of changes, maybe someone can shed some light on
> this?

as the function in question uses plain javascript (the already
mentioned "prompt" command) it obviously doesn't use any silverstripe
specific api.

So it would require to rewrite it to make use of whatever higher-level
api. But I don't really think it is worth it  (or better: there are
other tasks that I consider more important - like getting rid of that
pile of mail that stacked up in my inbox :-P)

ciao
Christian

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