Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses in Labels and Envelopes from Data Base

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techal techal
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Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses in Labels and Envelopes from Data Base

I run two small databases on my LO system from which I print form
letters.  Many people in Europe frequently need three address lines in
addition to the City (Town) line.  Also, some users may have an optional
field for job designation.

When you want to print labels or envelopes from your database which
includes blank fields, it is necessary to add Hidden Paragraph or Line
suppression codes, the work around involves using EQ "" to stop the
"printing" of the empty (blank field)  line(s) and this has to be set up
before you can print.

Could a check box to suppress blank lines when printing from databases
be added into the pop-up Mail Merge box?  This should be included into a
LO up-date as soon as possible.  This addition would make LO much more
usable to anybody using its integrated facilities and it would also help
those users who are not so confident with "tricks of the trade".

Does anyone agree with this or is there another way to solve this problem?

Alan

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techal techal
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Re: Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses in Labels and Envelopes from Data Base

Earlier this month I posted a request for the suppression of blank lines
when using address fields extracted from  Database be included in an
early update to LO.

I regard this problem as one that may stop some organisations from
adopting LO as their office system.

As there has been no response, can I ask if I have put my request into
the wrong forum or are there too many other organisational problems
being addressed presently?

Alan



On 04/02/2011 11:37, Alan Reeve wrote:

> I run two small databases on my LO system from which I print form
> letters.  Many people in Europe frequently need three address lines in
> addition to the City (Town) line.  Also, some users may have an
> optional field for job designation.
>
> When you want to print labels or envelopes from your database which
> includes blank fields, it is necessary to add Hidden Paragraph or Line
> suppression codes, the work around involves using EQ "" to stop the
> "printing" of the empty (blank field)  line(s) and this has to be set
> up before you can print.
>
> Could a check box to suppress blank lines when printing from databases
> be added into the pop-up Mail Merge box?  This should be included into
> a LO up-date as soon as possible.  This addition would make LO much
> more usable to anybody using its integrated facilities and it would
> also help those users who are not so confident with "tricks of the
> trade".
>
> Does anyone agree with this or is there another way to solve this
> problem?
>
> Alan
>


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Alex Thurgood Alex Thurgood
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Re: Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses in Labels and Envelopes from Data Base

Le 09/02/11 11:49, Alan Reeve a écrit :

Hi Alan,

>
> As there has been no response, can I ask if I have put my request into
> the wrong forum or are there too many other organisational problems
> being addressed presently?
>

I would say, "Yes" and "Yes" to both those questions, whilst qualifying
the second as "too many other bugs to hunt down and sort out which are
not related to Base".

The Base module has, as far as I know, and I would gladly stand
corrected, no specifically assigned experienced developer / programmer
which knows the Base module well enough to deal with these problems. Add
to that the fact that many of the current bugs are actually present in
OOo 3.3.0, i.e. introduced by the OOo development team, then it is
likely considered a waste of resources for the LibO team to deal with
something that may, possibly, get handled by Oracle.

As to your bug correction request, you would be better off filing a bug
report at freedesktop.org, which is where TDF has decided that all such
reports should be filed, or even better still with Oracle.


Alex


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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses in Labels and Envelopes from Data Base

On 2011-02-09 6:12 AM, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
> As to your bug correction request, you would be better off filing a bug
> report at freedesktop.org, which is where TDF has decided that all such
> reports should be filed, or even better still with Oracle.

And/or the Openoffice bug tracker (shudder)...

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Charles

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techal techal
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Re: Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses in Labels and Envelopes from Data Base

On 09/02/2011 12:05, Charles Marcus wrote:
> On 2011-02-09 6:12 AM, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
>> As to your bug correction request, you would be better off filing a bug
>> report at freedesktop.org, which is where TDF has decided that all such
>> reports should be filed, or even better still with Oracle.
> And/or the Openoffice bug tracker (shudder)...
>
Thank you for your suggestion.  I requested OOo to improve this about 18
months ago and guess what....

Alan

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techal techal
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Re: Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses in Labels and Envelopes from Data Base

In reply to this post by Alex Thurgood
On 09/02/2011 11:12, Alexander Thurgood wrote:

> Le 09/02/11 11:49, Alan Reeve a écrit :
>
> Hi Alan,
>
>> As there has been no response, can I ask if I have put my request into
>> the wrong forum or are there too many other organisational problems
>> being addressed presently?
>>
> I would say, "Yes" and "Yes" to both those questions, whilst qualifying
> the second as "too many other bugs to hunt down and sort out which are
> not related to Base".
>
> The Base module has, as far as I know, and I would gladly stand
> corrected, no specifically assigned experienced developer / programmer
> which knows the Base module well enough to deal with these problems. Add
> to that the fact that many of the current bugs are actually present in
> OOo 3.3.0, i.e. introduced by the OOo development team, then it is
> likely considered a waste of resources for the LibO team to deal with
> something that may, possibly, get handled by Oracle.
>
> As to your bug correction request, you would be better off filing a bug
> report at freedesktop.org, which is where TDF has decided that all such
> reports should be filed, or even better still with Oracle.
>
>
> Alex
>
>
Hi Alex

Thanks for your response.  So far as I can see, the problem does not lie
in Base but within the Text Document (Writer) modules.  The address line
suppression should form part of the "Print from Base"  window in Text
Document after you have inserted fields from your database.  The Writer
program responds  with the wording "Your document contains database
address fields. do you want to print a form letter?"  When you respond
"Yes", then a further box comes up with the database selected and just
asks you to confirm whether you wish to send the files to "Printer" or
"File".

I have hesitated to show this as a bug, because the program is not
wrong, it just does not do enough.  Is that a bug?

Alan







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Alex Thurgood Alex Thurgood
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Re: Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses in Labels and Envelopes from Data Base

In reply to this post by techal
Le 09/02/11 15:28, Alan Reeve a écrit :

Hi,
>>
> Thank you for your suggestion.  I requested OOo to improve this about 18
> months ago and guess what....

The worst bit is that it actually used to work at one stage...


Alex


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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses in Labels and Envelopes from Data Base

In reply to this post by techal
On 2011-02-09 9:28 AM, Alan Reeve wrote:
> On 09/02/2011 12:05, Charles Marcus wrote:
>> On 2011-02-09 6:12 AM, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
>>> As to your bug correction request, you would be better off filing a bug
>>> report at freedesktop.org, which is where TDF has decided that all such
>>> reports should be filed, or even better still with Oracle.
>> And/or the Openoffice bug tracker (shudder)...
>>
> Thank you for your suggestion.  I requested OOo to improve this about 18
> months ago

On their email list? Or did you open an actual bug/feature request?

> and guess what....

Wouldn't surprise me that it was ignored even if you did do it via the
bug tracker, but if you didn't, then there is NO way it will every get
done... and same goes for LibO - you have to open an actual trackable
request, not just send an email...

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Charles

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Harold Fuchs Harold Fuchs
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Re: Re: Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses inLabels and Envelopes from Data Base

In reply to this post by techal

"Alan Reeve" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...

>On 09/02/2011 11:12, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
>> Le 09/02/11 11:49, Alan Reeve a écrit :
>>
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>>> As there has been no response, can I ask if I have put my request into
>>> the wrong forum or are there too many other organisational problems
>>> being addressed presently?
>>>
>> I would say, "Yes" and "Yes" to both those questions, whilst qualifying
>> the second as "too many other bugs to hunt down and sort out which are
>> not related to Base".
>>
>> The Base module has, as far as I know, and I would gladly stand
>> corrected, no specifically assigned experienced developer / programmer
>> which knows the Base module well enough to deal with these problems. Add
>> to that the fact that many of the current bugs are actually present in
>> OOo 3.3.0, i.e. introduced by the OOo development team, then it is
>> likely considered a waste of resources for the LibO team to deal with
>> something that may, possibly, get handled by Oracle.
>>
>> As to your bug correction request, you would be better off filing a bug
>> report at freedesktop.org, which is where TDF has decided that all such
>> reports should be filed, or even better still with Oracle.
>>
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>Hi Alex
>
>Thanks for your response.  So far as I can see, the problem does not lie in
>Base but within the Text Document (Writer) modules.  The address line
>suppression should form part of the "Print from Base"  window in Text
>Document after you have inserted fields from your database.  The Writer
>program responds  with the wording "Your document contains database address
>fields. do you want to print a form letter?"  When you respond "Yes", then
>a further box comes up with the database selected and just asks you to
>confirm whether you wish to send the files to "Printer" or "File".
>
>I have hesitated to show this as a bug, because the program is not wrong,
>it just does not do enough.  Is that a bug?
>
>Alan
>

It's not a bug in the software, it's a bug in the *design* of the software.

--
Harold Fuchs
London, England



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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses in Labels and Envelopes from Data Base

In reply to this post by techal
Hi Alan,

Alan Reeve wrote (09-02-11 15:47)

> Thanks for your response. So far as I can see, the problem does not lie
> in Base but within the Text Document (Writer) modules. The address line
> suppression should form part of the "Print from Base" window in Text
> Document after you have inserted fields from your database.

Though (if I see it correct) not your initial question, I give some
related info.
You probably are aware that it is possible to put a conditional Hidden
paragraph field in the paragraphs?
Not so convenient, I agree, but it can be done.

Note: when inserting such a field, be sure that the various mail merge
fields are in a separate paragraph. When fields are inserted via the
dialog for Labels, they are at separate lines, but in one paragraph. You
have to correct that in the document.

Also: looking at the window Fields, tab Database, there is a field
Condition left at the bottom. I can be used when entering a Next record
field, however not with a Mail merge field. That looks as a 'relatively
easy' way for such an enhancement.


HTH,
regards,
Cor


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Robert Derman Robert Derman
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Re: Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses in Labels and Envelopes from Data Base

In reply to this post by techal
Alan Reeve wrote:

> On 09/02/2011 12:05, Charles Marcus wrote:
>> On 2011-02-09 6:12 AM, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
>>> As to your bug correction request, you would be better off filing a bug
>>> report at freedesktop.org, which is where TDF has decided that all such
>>> reports should be filed, or even better still with Oracle.
>> And/or the Openoffice bug tracker (shudder)...
>>
> Thank you for your suggestion.  I requested OOo to improve this about
> 18 months ago and guess what....
>
> Alan
As I have come to understand it, this is one of the most important
reasons for the OOo/LO fork.  Corporate management is who decides which
bugs get exterminated, and which are ignored with corporate supported
OOo.  With LO, it becomes more of a case of if a volunteer
developer/programmer gets annoyed by a bug, or enough users complain
about it, it gets fixed.


I myself only use Writer, if I get time I might use Base to make a
database of my DVD movie collection, but I am not likely to use any of
the other modules.  As a very heavy user of Writer, I make extensive use
of word completion, but I have known for years that this feature could
be much better with a few small changes like, a few choices in its
control menu, like have a PERMANENT dictionary where gather words could
be turned off, and the program would use a permanent dictionary, or a
change where strings containing all caps, punctuation marks other than '
apostrophe (in English) or numerals would never be added to the
completion dictionary.  I have seen several improvements to this feature
over the years, but never really important ones.


One really BIG improvement that needs to be made is so that upgrades
consist of patches rather than complete replacement of the program.  
This would be a HUGE improvement for all those people who do not have
access to high-speed internet connections.  It is because of the extreme
inconvenience of such upgrading methods that I choose to only upgrade
for MAJOR upgrades like when LO 4.0 comes out.  I just don't think it is
worth all the trouble for incremental upgrades like from 3.2 to 3.3.

Note:  I know that the use of all caps is considered bad form, but I
find that many email systems can't properly handle boldface.

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Robert Derman Robert Derman
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Re: Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses in Labels and Envelopes from Data Base

In reply to this post by techal
Alan Reeve wrote:

> On 09/02/2011 11:12, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
>> Le 09/02/11 11:49, Alan Reeve a écrit :
>>
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>>> As there has been no response, can I ask if I have put my request into
>>> the wrong forum or are there too many other organisational problems
>>> being addressed presently?
>>>
>> I would say, "Yes" and "Yes" to both those questions, whilst qualifying
>> the second as "too many other bugs to hunt down and sort out which are
>> not related to Base".
>>
>> The Base module has, as far as I know, and I would gladly stand
>> corrected, no specifically assigned experienced developer / programmer
>> which knows the Base module well enough to deal with these problems. Add
>> to that the fact that many of the current bugs are actually present in
>> OOo 3.3.0, i.e. introduced by the OOo development team, then it is
>> likely considered a waste of resources for the LibO team to deal with
>> something that may, possibly, get handled by Oracle.
>>
>> As to your bug correction request, you would be better off filing a bug
>> report at freedesktop.org, which is where TDF has decided that all such
>> reports should be filed, or even better still with Oracle.
>>
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
> Hi Alex
>
> Thanks for your response.  So far as I can see, the problem does not
> lie in Base but within the Text Document (Writer) modules.  The
> address line suppression should form part of the "Print from Base"  
> window in Text Document after you have inserted fields from your
> database.  The Writer program responds  with the wording "Your
> document contains database address fields. do you want to print a form
> letter?"  When you respond "Yes", then a further box comes up with the
> database selected and just asks you to confirm whether you wish to
> send the files to "Printer" or "File".
>
> I have hesitated to show this as a bug, because the program is not
> wrong, it just does not do enough.  Is that a bug?
>
> Alan
Probably a better term for this sort of thing would be a "shortcoming"
rather than a bug.

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techal techal
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Re: Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses in Labels and Envelopes from Data Base

In reply to this post by Charles Marcus
On 09/02/2011 16:16, Charles Marcus wrote:

> On 2011-02-09 9:28 AM, Alan Reeve wrote:
>> On 09/02/2011 12:05, Charles Marcus wrote:
>>> On 2011-02-09 6:12 AM, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
>>>> As to your bug correction request, you would be better off filing a bug
>>>> report at freedesktop.org, which is where TDF has decided that all such
>>>> reports should be filed, or even better still with Oracle.
>>> And/or the Openoffice bug tracker (shudder)...
>>>
>> Thank you for your suggestion.  I requested OOo to improve this about 18
>> months ago
> On their email list? Or did you open an actual bug/feature request?
>
>> and guess what....
> Wouldn't surprise me that it was ignored even if you did do it via the
> bug tracker, but if you didn't, then there is NO way it will every get
> done... and same goes for LibO - you have to open an actual trackable
> request, not just send an email...
>
Hi there

Thanks for comments.  Yes, I did follow all the OOo procedures.  But
nothing happened.

FYI, the OOo track was:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=107476


Alan



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techal techal
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Re: Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses in Labels and Envelopes from Data Base

In reply to this post by Cor Nouws
On 09/02/2011 19:14, Cor Nouws wrote:

> Hi Alan,
>
> Alan Reeve wrote (09-02-11 15:47)
>
>> Thanks for your response. So far as I can see, the problem does not lie
>> in Base but within the Text Document (Writer) modules. The address line
>> suppression should form part of the "Print from Base" window in Text
>> Document after you have inserted fields from your database.
>
> Though (if I see it correct) not your initial question, I give some
> related info.
> You probably are aware that it is possible to put a conditional Hidden
> paragraph field in the paragraphs?
> Not so convenient, I agree, but it can be done.
>
> Note: when inserting such a field, be sure that the various mail merge
> fields are in a separate paragraph. When fields are inserted via the
> dialog for Labels, they are at separate lines, but in one paragraph.
> You have to correct that in the document.
>
> Also: looking at the window Fields, tab Database, there is a field
> Condition left at the bottom. I can be used when entering a Next
> record field, however not with a Mail merge field. That looks as a
> 'relatively easy' way for such an enhancement.
>
>
> HTH,
> regards,
> Cor
>
>

My reason for raising this subject is because, surely, we cannot expect
typical office people who are not very conversant with computers to try
to set up Conditional statements.  The technique needed is quite
abstruse and it is totally unforgiving and I am afraid that only a
person with a reasonable degree of computer knowledge will attempt it..

I understand how to do it and do not personally have a problem with
suppressing blank address lines, apart from extra complexity, but you
must agree that many people are transferring to Libre Office from M$
Word, where the ability to suppress blank lines by checking a tick box
has been available for some years.

Come on people, surely somebody has the skills to run with this hare!  
Or is it not challenging enough?

Alan





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