UI proposal

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mirek2 mirek2
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UI proposal

Hi everyone,
Since it seems like LibreOffice won't adopt the UI Oracle's preparing for
OOo, I'm starting a massive LibreOffice UI proposal series. Here's the
intro: http://clickortap.wordpress.com/2010/10/14/citrus-ui/

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Jon Hamkins-2 Jon Hamkins-2
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Re: UI proposal

On 10/14/2010 03:03 PM, Mirek M. wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> Since it seems like LibreOffice won't adopt the UI Oracle's preparing for
> OOo, I'm starting a massive LibreOffice UI proposal series. Here's the
> intro: http://clickortap.wordpress.com/2010/10/14/citrus-ui/

Given the prevalence of wide screen displays, I always wondered why the
tool bars are often placed on the top and bottom.  It's seems more
logical to place them on the left or right, where there is more space.

      ----Jon

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: UI proposal

Hi Mirek, :-)

Microsoft have done pretty well with their 2010 makeover, bringing
useful stuff that was previously buried in menus to the ribbon.
I'd love to see something inspired from this idea in LibO... And
basically I'd love to be able to tear off the ribbons and float them,
or dock them top, left, right or bottom as I want.

IMHO, LibO needs something that is quite new and a bold departure...

The screenshot in your article looks good... nice style and clean...
but what do you think of my ideas above?

David Nelson

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Jean Weber Jean Weber
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Re: UI proposal

On Fri, 2010-10-15, David Nelson wrote:

>
> IMHO, LibO needs something that is quite new and a bold departure...

Please keep in mind that a lot of people do not want the user interface
to change too much. One reason they love OOo is that its UI is like the
older versions of MSO (2003 and before). I get mail all the time from
people saying "please tell me they're not going to change OOo too much!"

Well, maybe if OOo doesn't change, and LibO does, that's okay. Something
for everyone: the oldsters and the youngsters. <grin>

--Jean




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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: UI proposal

Hi, :-)

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 16:29, Jean Hollis Weber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Please keep in mind that a lot of people do not want the user interface
> to change too much. One reason they love OOo is that its UI is like the
> older versions of MSO (2003 and before). I get mail all the time from
> people saying "please tell me they're not going to change OOo too much!"

How about a "skinnable" \ "themable" LibO? Probably not a new idea,
but I'd love to see it...

David Nelson

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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: UI proposal

In reply to this post by Jon Hamkins-2
Hi Jon,

2010/10/15 Jon Hamkins <[hidden email]>

> On 10/14/2010 03:03 PM, Mirek M. wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>> Since it seems like LibreOffice won't adopt the UI Oracle's preparing for
>> OOo, I'm starting a massive LibreOffice UI proposal series. Here's the
>> intro: http://clickortap.wordpress.com/2010/10/14/citrus-ui/
>>
>
> Given the prevalence of wide screen displays, I always wondered why the
> tool bars are often placed on the top and bottom.  It's seems more logical
> to place them on the left or right, where there is more space.
>
>     ----Jon
>

The main reason why most toolbars aren't vertical is because most languages
read horizontally, and therefore it makes most sense to put text
horizontally, not vertically, to make it simple to read.
Icon-only toolbars, like the "Insert" toolbar/Drawing toolbox, and sidebar
are vertical.

>
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> deleted.
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>


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Sveinn í Felli Sveinn í Felli
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Re: UI proposal

In reply to this post by davidnelson
Þann fös 15.okt 2010 08:29, skrifaði Jean Hollis Weber:

> On Fri, 2010-10-15, David Nelson wrote:
>
>>
>> IMHO, LibO needs something that is quite new and a bold departure...
>
> Please keep in mind that a lot of people do not want the user interface
> to change too much. One reason they love OOo is that its UI is like the
> older versions of MSO (2003 and before). I get mail all the time from
> people saying "please tell me they're not going to change OOo too much!"
>
> Well, maybe if OOo doesn't change, and LibO does, that's okay. Something
> for everyone: the oldsters and the youngsters.<grin>
>

Why not have such things user configurable (skins?/themes?).
then one could choose "Classic OOo interface", "Interactive
Ribbon* interface", "Widescreen Sidebars interface",
"Minimalistic Netbook interface" etc.

If done correctly it should not bloat the software too much.

*Ribbon is maybe trademarked ?

Regards,

Sveinn í Felli


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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: UI proposal

In reply to this post by mirek2
Hi, :-)

> 2010/10/15 Jon Hamkins <[hidden email]>
> The main reason why most toolbars aren't vertical is because most languages
> read horizontally, and therefore it makes most sense to put text
> horizontally, not vertically, to make it simple to read.
> Icon-only toolbars, like the "Insert" toolbar/Drawing toolbox, and sidebar
> are vertical.

If you're a power user, one might prefer to have a purely
icon/tooltip-based interface?

David Nelson

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Jean Weber Jean Weber
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Re: UI proposal

In reply to this post by davidnelson
On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 08:43 +0000, Sveinn í Felli wrote:

> Þann fös 15.okt 2010 08:29, skrifaði Jean Hollis Weber:
> > On Fri, 2010-10-15, David Nelson wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> IMHO, LibO needs something that is quite new and a bold departure...
> >
> > Please keep in mind that a lot of people do not want the user interface
> > to change too much. One reason they love OOo is that its UI is like the
> > older versions of MSO (2003 and before). I get mail all the time from
> > people saying "please tell me they're not going to change OOo too much!"
> >
> > Well, maybe if OOo doesn't change, and LibO does, that's okay. Something
> > for everyone: the oldsters and the youngsters.<grin>
> >
>
> Why not have such things user configurable (skins?/themes?).
> then one could choose "Classic OOo interface", "Interactive
> Ribbon* interface", "Widescreen Sidebars interface",
> "Minimalistic Netbook interface" etc.
>
> If done correctly it should not bloat the software too much.
>
> *Ribbon is maybe trademarked ?

I remember when I got my first Windows XP computer (before I switched to
Linux). I was so relieved when I learned that I could change it from the
"new" UI to the "classic" one. Several programs (WinZip is one) had/have
that feature too. That's ideal if one can do it.

And regarding widescreen: on my netbook, a lot of programs have at least
some dialog boxes that are too tall to fit on the screen, leaving the
OK/Cancel buttons (and sometimes other fields) unreachable. I don't
recall if OOo has any, but that's a major usability problem to look out
for.

--Jean



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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: UI proposal

Hi, :-)

One thing missing from LibO is the ability to split one window showing
2 / 3 / X different docs... I spend a lot of time proofreading and
comparing docs...

David Nelson

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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: UI proposal

In reply to this post by davidnelson
Hi Sveinn

2010/10/15 Sveinn í Felli <[hidden email]>

> Þann fös 15.okt 2010 08:29, skrifaði Jean Hollis Weber:
>
>> On Fri, 2010-10-15, David Nelson wrote:
>>
>>
>>> IMHO, LibO needs something that is quite new and a bold departure...
>>>
>>
>> Please keep in mind that a lot of people do not want the user interface
>> to change too much. One reason they love OOo is that its UI is like the
>> older versions of MSO (2003 and before). I get mail all the time from
>> people saying "please tell me they're not going to change OOo too much!"
>>
>> Well, maybe if OOo doesn't change, and LibO does, that's okay. Something
>> for everyone: the oldsters and the youngsters.<grin>
>>
>>
> Why not have such things user configurable (skins?/themes?). then one could
> choose "Classic OOo interface", "Interactive Ribbon* interface", "Widescreen
> Sidebars interface", "Minimalistic Netbook interface" etc.
>
> If done correctly it should not bloat the software too much.
>

I'd prefer this to be done via extensions, keep LibO light with only the
important features.
Definitely would be nice, though.

>
> *Ribbon is maybe trademarked ?
>

MS has a patent pending on it.

>
> Regards,
>
> Sveinn í Felli
>
>
>
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> deleted.
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> http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
>
>


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Jean Weber Jean Weber
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Re: UI proposal

In reply to this post by davidnelson
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010, David Nelson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi, :-)
>
> One thing missing from LibO is the ability to split one window showing
> 2 / 3 / X different docs... I spend a lot of time proofreading and
> comparing docs...

Although you can't put up two documents in one window, you can have
two windows open, either for different docs or for different views of
the same doc, and arrange them on the screen however you like. Of
course, it helps if you have a large monitor (mine is 27"). I don't
see any advantage of one window with multiple docs, though I'll admit
it's been many years since I used a program that did that so I may be
missing something. What *is* the advantage from your POV?

--Jean

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: UI proposal

Hi, :-)

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 17:07, Jean Weber <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't see any advantage of one window with multiple docs, though I'll admit
> it's been many years since I used a program that did that so I may be
> missing something. What *is* the advantage from your POV?

2 different windows equals 2 duplicate sets of controls and possibly
lots of screen clutter. Also, you have to move/resize 2 independent
windows although they are, for me, 1 single working environment. This
road warrior only packs a 15" laptop.
Plus what about portability to multiple different appliances and form
factors, now and coming in the future?

0.2 cents :-)

David Nelson

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Sveinn í Felli Sveinn í Felli
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Re: UI proposal

In reply to this post by davidnelson
Þann fös 15.okt 2010 09:07, skrifaði Jean Weber:

> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010, David Nelson<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Hi, :-)
>>
>> One thing missing from LibO is the ability to split one window showing
>> 2 / 3 / X different docs... I spend a lot of time proofreading and
>> comparing docs...
>
> Although you can't put up two documents in one window, you can have
> two windows open, either for different docs or for different views of
> the same doc, and arrange them on the screen however you like. Of
> course, it helps if you have a large monitor (mine is 27"). I don't
> see any advantage of one window with multiple docs, though I'll admit
> it's been many years since I used a program that did that so I may be
> missing something. What *is* the advantage from your POV?
>

This is how it used to be some time ago in MSO (and I think
OOo): multiple documents tiled/cascading inside one program
window, with *one set of toolbars and menus* - thus
maximizing screen estate.

Can be confusing if the theme does not distinguish well
between active/inactive documents, but quite productive if
you got many or long toolbars (say Anapraseus for
translations) arranged along the top of the main window.

Arranging two docs side by side with two sets of
toolbars/menus make the menus wrap/be partially hidden.

Sveinn


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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: UI proposal

In reply to this post by mirek2
On 2010-10-14 6:03 PM, Mirek M. wrote:
> Since it seems like LibreOffice won't adopt the UI Oracle's preparing for
> OOo,

This is the first I've heard of this... do you have a link to details?

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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: UI proposal

In reply to this post by Jon Hamkins-2
On 2010-10-15 3:11 AM, Jon Hamkins wrote:
> Given the prevalence of wide screen displays, I always wondered why the
> tool bars are often placed on the top and bottom.  It's seems more
> logical to place them on the left or right, where there is more space.

Agree, but a choice would be best... flexibility is always good, so I
would hope that the user would be able to do one or the other or both
(some combination). Make each toolbar a customizable widget that can be
placed anywhere - even detached and anchored to the edge (sides, top or
bottom) of the monitor/screen. It would be nice to be able to edit them
similar to how you can modify toolbars in Firefox/Thunderbird - just
drag-n-drop.

An added bonus would be the ability to set them to auto-hide/show on
mouse-over, like you can do for the Task Bar, and the Menu bars in
Firefox/Thunderbird (using the Hide Menubar extension).

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Charles

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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: UI proposal

In reply to this post by Jean Weber
On 2010-10-15 4:29 AM, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:
> Please keep in mind that a lot of people do not want the user interface
> to change too much. One reason they love OOo is that its UI is like the
> older versions of MSO (2003 and before). I get mail all the time from
> people saying "please tell me they're not going to change OOo too much!"

It would be nice if the user could choose, but maintaining two totally
different UI's might be a lot of (too much?) work...

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Charles

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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: UI proposal

In reply to this post by mirek2
On 2010-10-15 4:41 AM, Mirek M. wrote:
> The main reason why most toolbars aren't vertical is because most
> languages read horizontally, and therefore it makes most sense to put
> text horizontally, not vertically, to make it simple to read.

Make buttons the way Firefox/Thunderbird do - text label below the icon
- then let the user choose. For people with large widescreen monitors,
having a wide(r) vertical toolbar wide enough to hold both the button
icon and the text label would be perfectly fine.

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Charles

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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: UI proposal

In reply to this post by mirek2
On 2010-10-15 5:01 AM, Mirek M. wrote:
> 2010/10/15 Sveinn í Felli <[hidden email]>
>> Why not have such things user configurable (skins?/themes?). then
>> one could choose "Classic OOo interface", "Interactive Ribbon*
>> interface", "Widescreen Sidebars interface", "Minimalistic Netbook
>> interface" etc.
>>
>> If done correctly it should not bloat the software too much.

> I'd prefer this to be done via extensions, keep LibO light with only
> the important features.
> Definitely would be nice, though.

I think the main point though is the 'light' core code would have to
fully support the concept of skins for all UI elements for this to be
done properly through extensions.

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Charles

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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: UI proposal

In reply to this post by davidnelson
On 2010-10-15 5:20 AM, David Nelson wrote:
> 2 different windows equals 2 duplicate sets of controls and possibly
> lots of screen clutter. Also, you have to move/resize 2 independent
> windows although they are, for me, 1 single working environment. This
> road warrior only packs a 15" laptop.

I thought he was basically talking about a tabbed interface (which
wouldn't suffer these problems)?

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Charles

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