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Phil Thane Phil Thane
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Hi,

I subscribed to the list when LO was first announced because I'm a journalist
with regular Linux / FreeSoftware features to fill. It was great, but now there
is way too many people and my mailbox is getting swamped.

I emailed the Unsubscribe address a while ago, but didn't get a reply - unless
of course it was swamped by the LO mail I deleted!

Please can someone unsubscribe me, or switch me to a weekly digest version?
--
regards
Phil Thane

Bryn Villa
Penycoed Road
Llangollen
LL20 8LR
Wales (UK)

++44 (0) 1978 861677 (landline)
++44 (0) 7971 087623 (mobile)
Skype: philthane
www.pthane.co.uk

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James Wilde-2 James Wilde-2
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Re: Unsubscribe

Sorry, no, Phil.  No-one can unsubscribe you.  Here's a suggestion:

Empty your mailbox of stuff from [hidden email].  Then unsubscribe from the address you believe you are subescribed under, which naturally enough is the one which receives the emails.  There is normally only a few seconds' delay between sending your message and getting the reply to act on.  If you don't get one, check an incoming email and see if the address is the one you thought.  You might have another email address which you forward to your main address.

The address to send your mail to is at the bottom of this mail.  Clicking or right-clicking on that should open an email message to send.

//James

On Jan 30, 2011, at 11:28 , Phil Thane wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I subscribed to the list when LO was first announced because I'm a journalist
> with regular Linux / FreeSoftware features to fill. It was great, but now there
> is way too many people and my mailbox is getting swamped.
>
> I emailed the Unsubscribe address a while ago, but didn't get a reply - unless
> of course it was swamped by the LO mail I deleted!
>
> Please can someone unsubscribe me, or switch me to a weekly digest version?
> --
> regards
> Phil Thane
>
> Bryn Villa
> Penycoed Road
> Llangollen
> LL20 8LR
> Wales (UK)
>
> ++44 (0) 1978 861677 (landline)
> ++44 (0) 7971 087623 (mobile)
> Skype: philthane
> www.pthane.co.uk
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/
> *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
>


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Barbara Duprey Barbara Duprey
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Re: Unsubscribe

On 1/30/2011 6:35 AM, James Wilde wrote:
> Sorry, no, Phil.  No-one can unsubscribe you.  Here's a suggestion:
>
> Empty your mailbox of stuff from [hidden email].  Then unsubscribe from the address you believe you are subescribed under, which naturally enough is the one which receives the emails.  There is normally only a few seconds' delay between sending your message and getting the reply to act on.  If you don't get one, check an incoming email and see if the address is the one you thought.  You might have another email address which you forward to your main address.
>
> The address to send your mail to is at the bottom of this mail.  Clicking or right-clicking on that should open an email message to send.

No, that goes to users+help, not to [hidden email] (apparently to accommodate the
differences for people who subscribed to the digest -- or used -nomail, in which case I have no idea
why they'd bother to unsubscribe). Whoever is trying to unsubscribe will probably get there in the
end, though. But if they don't know the subscribed address, they'll need to look at the Return-Path
header and pick out the indirect form (using equals instead of at) of the subscribed address, and
unsubscribe that.

Question to moderator/owner -- the help doesn't describe anything that uses the indirect form in the
case of a subscribed address that is no longer directly accessible. Does that capability exist? How
does it work, if so?

> //James
>
> On Jan 30, 2011, at 11:28 , Phil Thane wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I subscribed to the list when LO was first announced because I'm a journalist
>> with regular Linux / FreeSoftware features to fill. It was great, but now there
>> is way too many people and my mailbox is getting swamped.
>>
>> I emailed the Unsubscribe address a while ago, but didn't get a reply - unless
>> of course it was swamped by the LO mail I deleted!
>>
>> Please can someone unsubscribe me, or switch me to a weekly digest version?
>> --
>> regards
>> Phil Thane
>>
>> Bryn Villa
>> Penycoed Road
>> Llangollen
>> LL20 8LR
>> Wales (UK)
>>
>> ++44 (0) 1978 861677 (landline)
>> ++44 (0) 7971 087623 (mobile)
>> Skype: philthane
>> www.pthane.co.uk
>>
>> --
>> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/
>> *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
>>
>

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James Wilde-2 James Wilde-2
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Re: Unsubscribe


On Jan 30, 2011, at 21:47 , Barbara Duprey wrote:

> On 1/30/2011 6:35 AM, James Wilde wrote:
>> Sorry, no, Phil.  No-one can unsubscribe you.  Here's a suggestion:
>>
>> Empty your mailbox of stuff from [hidden email].  Then unsubscribe from the address you believe you are subescribed under, which naturally enough is the one which receives the emails.  There is normally only a few seconds' delay between sending your message and getting the reply to act on.  If you don't get one, check an incoming email and see if the address is the one you thought.  You might have another email address which you forward to your main address.
>>
>> The address to send your mail to is at the bottom of this mail.  Clicking or right-clicking on that should open an email message to send.
>
> No, that goes to users+help, not to [hidden email] (apparently to accommodate the differences for people who subscribed to the digest -- or used -nomail, in which case I have no idea why they'd bother to unsubscribe). Whoever is trying to unsubscribe will probably get there in the end, though. But if they don't know the subscribed address, they'll need to look at the Return-Path header and pick out the indirect form (using equals instead of at) of the subscribed address, and unsubscribe that.
>
> Question to moderator/owner -- the help doesn't describe anything that uses the indirect form in the case of a subscribed address that is no longer directly accessible. Does that capability exist? How does it work, if so?

Thanks Barbara:

I didn't look at the bottom of the mail before sending my suggestion.  I hope there's a good reason why unsubscribers are told to send a message to users+help instead of instead of users+unsubscribe.  But at least Phil should have got a message back that he can read.

As to your question, I don't know the answer, and we'll have to wait for the owner.  I'm just a moderator.

//James

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eskroni eskroni
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Re: Unsubscribe

Hi James, Barbara, *,

2011/1/30 James Wilde <[hidden email]>:

>
> On Jan 30, 2011, at 21:47 , Barbara Duprey wrote:
>
>> On 1/30/2011 6:35 AM, James Wilde wrote:
>>> Sorry, no, Phil.  No-one can unsubscribe you.  Here's a suggestion:
>>>
>>> Empty your mailbox of stuff from [hidden email].  Then unsubscribe from the address you believe you are subescribed under, which naturally enough is the one which receives the emails.  There is normally only a few seconds' delay between sending your message and getting the reply to act on.  If you don't get one, check an incoming email and see if the address is the one you thought.  You might have another email address which you forward to your main address.
>>>
>>> The address to send your mail to is at the bottom of this mail.  Clicking or right-clicking on that should open an email message to send.
>>
>> No, that goes to users+help, not to [hidden email] (apparently to accommodate the differences for people who subscribed to the digest -- or used -nomail, in which case I have no idea why they'd bother to unsubscribe). Whoever is trying to unsubscribe will probably get there in the end, though. But if they don't know the subscribed address, they'll need to look at the Return-Path header and pick out the indirect form (using equals instead of at) of the subscribed address, and unsubscribe that.

Yes, the footer says clearly:

Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]

So you send a message, to get the unsubscribe instructions. As you
said, there's a difference in the mailto-address for the "regular
mail" and the "digest" version of the mailing list.

The "no-mail" option exists for those people who follow the lists
through a news gateway like gmane. You need to be subscribed, to send
messages, but you'll get the replies through your newsreader. So
there's no need to send you the mails extra.


>> Question to moderator/owner -- the help doesn't describe anything that uses the indirect form in the case of a subscribed address that is no longer directly accessible. Does that capability exist? How does it work, if so?
>

> As to your question, I don't know the answer, and we'll have to wait for the owner.  I'm just a moderator.


I don't know, if this possibility exists for the lists at
libreoffice.org. I am a moderator too, but I haven't come across
anything like it. I might ask on the moderators list, if this is
possible - if James isn't faster. :)

Sigrid

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Barbara Duprey Barbara Duprey
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Re: Unsubscribe

On 1/31/2011 7:57 AM, Sigrid Carrera wrote:

> Hi James, Barbara, *,
>
> 2011/1/30 James Wilde<[hidden email]>:
>> On Jan 30, 2011, at 21:47 , Barbara Duprey wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/30/2011 6:35 AM, James Wilde wrote:
>>>> Sorry, no, Phil.  No-one can unsubscribe you.  Here's a suggestion:
>>>>
>>>> Empty your mailbox of stuff from [hidden email].  Then unsubscribe from the address you believe you are subescribed under, which naturally enough is the one which receives the emails.  There is normally only a few seconds' delay between sending your message and getting the reply to act on.  If you don't get one, check an incoming email and see if the address is the one you thought.  You might have another email address which you forward to your main address.
>>>>
>>>> The address to send your mail to is at the bottom of this mail.  Clicking or right-clicking on that should open an email message to send.
>>> No, that goes to users+help, not to [hidden email] (apparently to accommodate the differences for people who subscribed to the digest -- or used -nomail, in which case I have no idea why they'd bother to unsubscribe). Whoever is trying to unsubscribe will probably get there in the end, though. But if they don't know the subscribed address, they'll need to look at the Return-Path header and pick out the indirect form (using equals instead of at) of the subscribed address, and unsubscribe that.
> Yes, the footer says clearly:
>
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
>
> So you send a message, to get the unsubscribe instructions. As you
> said, there's a difference in the mailto-address for the "regular
> mail" and the "digest" version of the mailing list.
>
> The "no-mail" option exists for those people who follow the lists
> through a news gateway like gmane. You need to be subscribed, to send
> messages, but you'll get the replies through your newsreader. So
> there's no need to send you the mails extra.

What I meant was that there's info in the help about how to unsubscribe a no-mail address, and I
really don't know why anybody would bother! Do you know why the subscription is necessary for Gmane
(etc.) when it isn't for the OOo lists? Apparently there are some significant differences relative
to ezmlm handling. The main problem I see is that the moderators are the only ones who know that a
user is not subscribed, so they have to give instructions about how to follow the thread. The tricky
part is that they can't supply specific links (those don't yet exist at the point of moderation),
and the user needs to be able to reply as well as view, to supply additional info, for example. So
they have to get search instructions, and how to subscribe no-mail.

>
>>> Question to moderator/owner -- the help doesn't describe anything that uses the indirect form in the case of a subscribed address that is no longer directly accessible. Does that capability exist? How does it work, if so?
>> As to your question, I don't know the answer, and we'll have to wait for the owner.  I'm just a moderator.
>
> I don't know, if this possibility exists for the lists at
> libreoffice.org. I am a moderator too, but I haven't come across
> anything like it. I might ask on the moderators list, if this is
> possible - if James isn't faster. :)
>
> Sigrid

There are hints in the Return-Path header that the indirect address (with an equals instead of an
at) can be used here, too, but the use of parameters (with minus signs) complicates it. I would
guess that the indirect address would be attached to the command part after a hyphen (or plus?),
with the parameters following after a space, but I'm not sure. On the OOo lists, I always recommend
the indirect form for subscribe/unsubscribe, to avoid issues with munging and with not using the
same account for both actions. Guess I could try it and see!

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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: Unsubscribe

In reply to this post by James Wilde-2
On 2011-01-30 5:21 PM, James Wilde wrote:
> I hope there's a good reason why unsubscribers are told to send a
> message to users+help instead of instead of users+unsubscribe.  But
> at least Phil should have got a message back that he can read.

I argued against this decision when it was made.

The vast majority of people who will click on that link to get
instructions, want to unsubscribe, not read all of the other instructions.

Each list should have TWO links - one, to actually send the unsubscribe
message, and then the second, to get ADDITIONAL instructions if desired.

Requiring people to first get instructions just creates confusion and
dramatically increases the number of 'ubsubscribe me now!' complaints to
the list.

--

Best regards,

Charles

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: Unsubscribe

Le 2011-01-31 10:16, Charles Marcus a écrit :

> On 2011-01-30 5:21 PM, James Wilde wrote:
>> I hope there's a good reason why unsubscribers are told to send a
>> message to users+help instead of instead of users+unsubscribe.  But
>> at least Phil should have got a message back that he can read.
>
> I argued against this decision when it was made.
>
> The vast majority of people who will click on that link to get
> instructions, want to unsubscribe, not read all of the other instructions.
>
> Each list should have TWO links - one, to actually send the unsubscribe
> message, and then the second, to get ADDITIONAL instructions if desired.
>
> Requiring people to first get instructions just creates confusion and
> dramatically increases the number of 'ubsubscribe me now!' complaints to
> the list.
>

I also agree.

When I had originally documented the "Get Involved" section of the
website (pre-David website), one of lines that I had gotten the most
off-line "thank you" was the line that I had added:

Unsubscribe: [hidden email]

I had added this for each of the mailists (with the appropriate mailist
group of course). I received many off-line emails thanking me for adding
these lines as they apparently said that this had been a longstanding
request on the OOo mailists which just seemed to be ignored for no
apparent reason.

When people want to unsubscribe they are no longer interested in
receiving messages, so we should give them as direct as possible way to
unsubscribe. A simple link to a mailto: is all they want.

Cheers

Marc


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Tom Tom
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Re: Unsubscribe

+1

the extra link in case they have troubles with unsubscribing is also useful tho,
as Charles said.


Regards from
Tom :)


________________________________
From: Marc Paré <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Mon, 31 January, 2011 15:35:29
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Unsubscribe

Le 2011-01-31 10:16, Charles Marcus a écrit :

> On 2011-01-30 5:21 PM, James Wilde wrote:
>> I hope there's a good reason why unsubscribers are told to send a
>> message to users+help instead of instead of users+unsubscribe.  But
>> at least Phil should have got a message back that he can read.
>
> I argued against this decision when it was made.
>
> The vast majority of people who will click on that link to get
> instructions, want to unsubscribe, not read all of the other instructions.
>
> Each list should have TWO links - one, to actually send the unsubscribe
> message, and then the second, to get ADDITIONAL instructions if desired.
>
> Requiring people to first get instructions just creates confusion and
> dramatically increases the number of 'ubsubscribe me now!' complaints to
> the list.
>

I also agree.

When I had originally documented the "Get Involved" section of the website
(pre-David website), one of lines that I had gotten the most off-line "thank
you" was the line that I had added:

Unsubscribe: [hidden email]

I had added this for each of the mailists (with the appropriate mailist group of
course). I received many off-line emails thanking me for adding these lines as
they apparently said that this had been a longstanding request on the OOo
mailists which just seemed to be ignored for no apparent reason.

When people want to unsubscribe they are no longer interested in receiving
messages, so we should give them as direct as possible way to unsubscribe. A
simple link to a mailto: is all they want.

Cheers

Marc


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