Update on Drupal Website Progress

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Update on Drupal Website Progress

I thought is was about time to share some of the progress that the
Drupal website development team is making on the implementation of the
development site for libreoffice.org that will be implemented within 6
months.

The collaboration through the wiki has grown immensely, with the vast
majority of the development being discussed and documented here:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Drupal

The LibreOffice Drupal development site can be found here:
www.libreofficeaustralia.org

Key to the long term success of the Drupal site and linked to it, the
health and size of the LibreOffice community, is the underlying
structure. I thought that I might share some of it here.

(-) Basic information about LibreOffice and each application is easily
accessible and understandable
(-) All languages will have the same content, some of which will be
automatically translated so collaboration can occur across languages.
(Forums, News, Extensions, Templates)
(-) Official Documentation and proposed documentation sections are
functional, just need some prettying up and filling with documents.
       http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/support/documentation
(-) Template Library is fully functional - try it out and upload a test template
      http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/download/templates
(-) Forums are fully functional but not yet linked with any mailing list system
      http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/forums/community
(-) Twitter Feed has been setup under Support - Social Media, Need FB
and others.
(-) Community team pages are being setup now. ie website, marketing,
documentation, artwork
(-) Theme concepts are coming along nicely, but we still require some
experts here.
(-) You can already submit artwork ideas
      http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/community/contribute/artwork

Areas we plan to tackle next
(-) Translations and internationalisation
(-) Regional groups setup
(-) Extensions directory
(-) 'Features of LibreOffice' pages
(-) Social Media integration
(-) Consulting with the development group regarding idea tracking and
bug reporting - already started
(-) Setup a blogroll for the LibreOffice Planet.

If you think you can help with any of this, please contact carlos,
marc or ben, nino or myself directly.

Also, I think it is about time that we approach the Steering Committee
with the progress we have made and suggest a "Drupal on
LibreOffice.org" launch date in early January. The progress on the
site is astounding and I think that early January is achievable for a
fully functional production quality site.

Note: Development is happening on the English site,
internationalisation will occur after the English site is operational.
If you try to change the language you will likely get a 404 error due
to nothing being translated yet. - First things first. Getting the
structure right, then the content.

Again,
Thanks to everyone who has done such an amazing job so far. Let's keep
up the great work.

Michael Wheatland
LibreOffice Drupal website development team
www.libreofficeaustralia.org

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Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

Hi Michael,

being still on the train, I can finally comment here.

First - a lot of thanks to you! Not only that you and all the
contributors work on this, you also provide this neat status
information. To me it seems, that you should consider posting such great
progress to the Planet as well. Just too important and thrilling :-)

Am Samstag, den 13.11.2010, 16:43 +0930 schrieb Michael Wheatland:
[...]
> (-) Basic information about LibreOffice and each application is easily
> accessible and understandable
> (-) All languages will have the same content, some of which will be
> automatically translated so collaboration can occur across languages.
> (Forums, News, Extensions, Templates)

Interesting - and because I am personally curious: how is the
translation achieved? In the last time, I noticed a large photo forum
that also provides translated content. It even takes you a while
(although English to German isn't that hard for automatic translation)
to know that it has been translated, automatically. It works, if people
don't use "domain specific terminology" - otherwise it gets funny.

Concerning the Extensions and Templates - I know that we currently talk
about the _very_ first step. To think ahead, do you think it is possible
to link LibO's internals with the Templates and Extensions page? There
have been some reasons why this hadn't been adressed within OOo, but now
this would greatly improve the experience using LibO ... Thinking of
presenting, recommending, downloading and installing these items from
within LibO.

> (-) Official Documentation and proposed documentation sections are
> functional, just need some prettying up and filling with documents.
>        http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/support/documentation
> (-) Template Library is fully functional - try it out and upload a test template
>       http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/download/templates
> (-) Forums are fully functional but not yet linked with any mailing list system
>       http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/forums/community
> (-) Twitter Feed has been setup under Support - Social Media, Need FB
> and others.
> (-) Community team pages are being setup now. ie website, marketing,
> documentation, artwork

Artwork --> Design ;-)

> (-) Theme concepts are coming along nicely, but we still require some
> experts here.

Here, it would be great to wait for the LibO 3.3 branding. It looks
(according to those people who provided feedback) much nicer than the
LibO Beta artwork ... so it would be great to consider it right from the
start. Basically, the stuff is ready in the SVG file - "just" needs
cleanup, exporting and uploading.

I think that it should be possible for me to support these efforts
within the next weeks - being more the usability and interaction guy,
than the artwork professional ;-)

> (-) You can already submit artwork ideas
>       http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/community/contribute/artwork

Being offline ... will have a look at it, later.

> Areas we plan to tackle next
> (-) Translations and internationalisation
> (-) Regional groups setup
> (-) Extensions directory
> (-) 'Features of LibreOffice' pages
> (-) Social Media integration

In general, I do hear many people talk about Twitter, Facebook, ...
although these are the "big players", I miss the "open" alternatives
here. Any chance to support them as well?

I think Florian (we should call him "Floweb 2.0") might have some
experience here. Others as well ... but here I miss the names ;-)

> (-) Consulting with the development group regarding idea tracking and
> bug reporting - already started
> (-) Setup a blogroll for the LibreOffice Planet.
>
> If you think you can help with any of this, please contact carlos,
> marc or ben, nino or myself directly.
>
> Also, I think it is about time that we approach the Steering Committee
> with the progress we have made and suggest a "Drupal on
> LibreOffice.org" launch date in early January. The progress on the
> site is astounding and I think that early January is achievable for a
> fully functional production quality site.

Looking forward :-)

By the way, is here any page describing the (assumed) visitors of our
site? So that the development of content / the site is directly related
to the target groups? (User with OOo experience, User with MSO
experience but no FLOSS information, ...).

> Note: Development is happening on the English site,
> internationalisation will occur after the English site is operational.
> If you try to change the language you will likely get a 404 error due
> to nothing being translated yet. - First things first. Getting the
> structure right, then the content.

+1 :-)

> Again,
> Thanks to everyone who has done such an amazing job so far. Let's keep
> up the great work.

+1 +1

Cheers,
Christoph


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Florian Effenberger Florian Effenberger
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

Hi,

Christoph Noack wrote on 2010-11-19 11.51:

>> Areas we plan to tackle next
>> >  (-) Translations and internationalisation
>> >  (-) Regional groups setup
>> >  (-) Extensions directory
>> >  (-) 'Features of LibreOffice' pages
>> >  (-) Social Media integration
> In general, I do hear many people talk about Twitter, Facebook, ...
> although these are the "big players", I miss the "open" alternatives
> here. Any chance to support them as well?
>
> I think Florian (we should call him "Floweb 2.0") might have some
> experience here. Others as well ... but here I miss the names;-)

thanks for the warm words. :-) I guess including Facebook, Twitter and
identi.ca would be a good choice. :)

flowebbish greetings *g*
Florian

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

Thanks Floweb 2.0 and Christoph,

1) We will include more social networks than you can poke a stick at

2) The automatic translation can be done by Google Translate, but it is not
fully functional at the moment as we are still in the design phase, having
automatic translations would slow the site down considerably when things are
being shifted around all the time.

3) I am sure that we could integrate the LibO software so that there is a
template and extension directory much like firefox does. But as you said
that is at least while off yet.

4) As for your Artwork -> Design comment, I have asked for a structure of
the marketing/artwork/design/branding/... team so that we can tailor the
site to specific needs but I have not yet heard back. As I understand it the
design/art team wants to be functionally seperate from the marketing team?
Again I am not sure, but once someone provides the structure this will be
cleared up quickly. Also I heard that the design/art team would prefer to
work as a service/consult group for the rest of the community.

5) At the moment the target groups are essentially the mailing list users.
We want to create something that will 'just work' for the jobs that they
perform. We have not really got to the marketing or targeting stages yet, we
are simply constructing things from the ground up to create a solid
foundation to build extra functionality on if required.

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

Le 2010-11-20 07:00, Michael Wheatland a écrit :

>
> 4) As for your Artwork ->  Design comment, I have asked for a structure of
> the marketing/artwork/design/branding/... team so that we can tailor the
> site to specific needs but I have not yet heard back. As I understand it the
> design/art team wants to be functionally seperate from the marketing team?
> Again I am not sure, but once someone provides the structure this will be
> cleared up quickly. Also I heard that the design/art team would prefer to
> work as a service/consult group for the rest of the community.
>

Hi Michael:

It was decided that there would be two groups. The "Marketing Team" and
the "Design Team". The Design Team also has its own mailist. This will
greatly help the Design Team focus on artwork, etc. without having to
wade through all of the unrelated mail in the marketing mailist.

Cheers

Marc


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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

Hi Marc, :-)

On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 03:24, Marc Paré <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The Design Team also has its own mailist.

Can you give the link to subscribe to that list, please?

TIA. ;-)

David Nelson

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drewjensen drewjensen
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

On Sun, 2010-11-21 at 03:27 +0800, David Nelson wrote:
> Can you give the link to subscribe to that list, please?

design -at- libreoffice.org

you can also get RSS feeds for any of the lists or groups of lists or
all lists...via the nabble interface, and most likely other ways also.

For instance - New top level emails (not a reply)
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Design-ft1935996.xml

or for all emails
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Design-f1935996.xml


Another RSS feed - for the Announcement list
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Announce-ft1621702.xml

HTH

Drew



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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

In reply to this post by davidnelson
Le 2010-11-20 14:27, David Nelson a écrit :

> Hi Marc, :-)
>
> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 03:24, Marc Paré<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> The Design Team also has its own mailist.
>
> Can you give the link to subscribe to that list, please?
>
> TIA. ;-)
>
> David Nelson
>
On our mailist pages on the TDF site.

http://www.documentfoundation.org/contribution/

Bottom of the page.

Cheers

Marc


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sophi sophi
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
Hi Michael, all,

I'm sorry, I'm currently travelling and really very partially connected,
but there is a point where I would like to give clarification:

[...]

> (-) All languages will have the same content, some of which will be
> automatically translated so collaboration can occur across languages.
> (Forums, News, Extensions, Templates)

You do not mean that the sites in different languages will look the same
with the same content? Language projects need to have their own content
and do not rely on automatic translation because it deliver very poor
quality. For the Drupal sites used on the OOo project, we manage the
translation of the Drupal files on Pootle, so I think we can do the same
here. But for the content, really each project should be able to manage
it's own content.

And thanks all for your work :)

Kind regards
Sophie

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 2:31 AM, Sophie Gautier
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> You do not mean that the sites in different languages will look the same
> with the same content? Language projects need to have their own content and
> do not rely on automatic translation because it deliver very poor quality.
> For the Drupal sites used on the OOo project, we manage the translation of
> the Drupal files on Pootle, so I think we can do the same here. But for the
> content, really each project should be able to manage it's own content.
>
> And thanks all for your work :)
>
> Kind regards
> Sophie

Automatic Translation will only occur on things which are considered
'instant communication' such as forums, mailing lists, and such.
The main section of the site (ie product information, support pages
etc.) will be manually translated either through pootle or directly on
the site.
If there is a page which does not have a native translation yet it
will display in english and allow the user to offer a translation
directly on the site if authorised as a translator.

To summarise we will be maintaining the integrity and quality of all
of the 'important' content while allowing cross-language communication
in real time for community discussions. I envisage that this should
break down a lot of barriers for people getting involved in the
project.

What are your thoughts on the subject?

Michael Wheatland

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sophi sophi
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

Hi Michael, all,
On 22/11/2010 04:32, Michael Wheatland wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 2:31 AM, Sophie Gautier
> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> You do not mean that the sites in different languages will look the same
>> with the same content? Language projects need to have their own content and
>> do not rely on automatic translation because it deliver very poor quality.
>> For the Drupal sites used on the OOo project, we manage the translation of
>> the Drupal files on Pootle, so I think we can do the same here. But for the
>> content, really each project should be able to manage it's own content.
>>
>> And thanks all for your work :)
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Sophie
>
> Automatic Translation will only occur on things which are considered
> 'instant communication' such as forums, mailing lists, and such.

Well, how will it works. We are used to have forums and mailing lists in
our own languages, with hundreds of mails/questions per day. So how will
it works between all the languages? For example between DE/FR/NL?
We are building a FAQ from these exchanges or a knowledge base, how will
it work?
> The main section of the site (ie product information, support pages
> etc.) will be manually translated either through pootle or directly on
> the site.
> If there is a page which does not have a native translation yet it
> will display in english and allow the user to offer a translation
> directly on the site if authorised as a translator.

But what for a page which is in French and has no equivalent in English
or is not relevant in Russian or in Sinhalese ? We do have contents
relative to a dedicated language that do not concern others? And, for my
own opinion, a fallback in English is just not acceptable.
>
> To summarise we will be maintaining the integrity and quality of all
> of the 'important' content while allowing cross-language communication
> in real time for community discussions. I envisage that this should
> break down a lot of barriers for people getting involved in the
> project.

We break the barriers by providing support and content in the language
of the user and the contributors. Several native language teams have
already strong communities of users and contributors, this works really
well for the OOo NLC and we should not break this imho. For the French
team for example, they are already working on documentation, QA and
marketing. There is a forum running for thousands of users and mailing
list are quite busy too. I don't see how all this activity will run if
you translate the content from English as a central language to the
other languages, that will be seen has a very very negative approach. Or
may be I missed something?

I've added Jean-Baptiste Faure in CC of this mail, because I'm still
travelling and he will be able to answer the questions you may have
during the two next days where I'll be disconnected.

But again this is really important that the contents for the Native
Language sites are provided in the native language of this group by this
group and reflect the needs of this group, not the one of another
language, be it English, German or Japanese. I hope you understand
my/our concerns because the approach is really different, may be at the
opposite, of your proposal. This approach has permitted to build a
strong and efficient community in OpenOffice.org and shall be continued
the same way here.

There is no emergency currently, we can still take time to speak about
it if you need to. I'll be back on Wednesday, don't hesitate to ask any
further questions or explanations you may need.

Kind regards
Sophie
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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

Hi Sophie

I have answered Jean-Baptiste on the French mailist but will try to give
you the gist of my answer here as well for others to read. Michael will
chime in as well, I am sure.

We all have to remember that some of these tools are being built into
the Drupal site in order to make it all easier for us to work as well as
to have access to other areas that we are not accustomed to. For
example, some of our membership may have never had a chance to visit
different localised sites due to the language barrier, forums, wiki
pages etc. By building in automatic translation tools, we can then use
the word "enable" in our description of our LibreOffice site. We can
then assure members/visitors that the translation tools will enable them
to visit any corner of the site without the accompanying language
barrier. Certainly, I would propose that most if not all people would
agree that the translations may, at times, not be 100% accurate, but it
will still give the members/visitors the sense/meaning of the pages
visited as well as enlighten them to the other contributing localised
members of the LibreOffice project.

A good example where such a tool would come in handy is exactly this
thread. How many more people would contribute to this particular thread
is the automatic translation tools allowed them the opportunity to
view/read these threads. OR for that matter how many more people would
participate on the Drupal Website Development Team if the translation
tools would help.

Of course, this will all be put to test when the tools and Drupal
test-site are installed. At that time, we can all share our experiences
of the translation tools and decide whether or not they could be used
before the site goes live.

BTW, a good suggestion that Jean-Sebastien had was to offer a button
whereby the member/visitor could either turn on/off the translation
tools as well as an offer to translate the page for the site.

Le 2010-11-22 12:58, Sophie Gautier a écrit :

> Hi Michael, all,
> On 22/11/2010 04:32, Michael Wheatland wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 2:31 AM, Sophie Gautier
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> You do not mean that the sites in different languages will look the same
>>> with the same content? Language projects need to have their own
>>> content and
>>> do not rely on automatic translation because it deliver very poor
>>> quality.
>>> For the Drupal sites used on the OOo project, we manage the
>>> translation of
>>> the Drupal files on Pootle, so I think we can do the same here. But
>>> for the
>>> content, really each project should be able to manage it's own content.
>>>
>>> And thanks all for your work :)
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>> Sophie
>>
>> Automatic Translation will only occur on things which are considered
>> 'instant communication' such as forums, mailing lists, and such.
>
> Well, how will it works. We are used to have forums and mailing lists in
> our own languages, with hundreds of mails/questions per day. So how will
> it works between all the languages? For example between DE/FR/NL?
> We are building a FAQ from these exchanges or a knowledge base, how will
> it work?
>> The main section of the site (ie product information, support pages
>> etc.) will be manually translated either through pootle or directly on
>> the site.
>> If there is a page which does not have a native translation yet it
>> will display in english and allow the user to offer a translation
>> directly on the site if authorised as a translator.
>
> But what for a page which is in French and has no equivalent in English
> or is not relevant in Russian or in Sinhalese ? We do have contents
> relative to a dedicated language that do not concern others? And, for my
> own opinion, a fallback in English is just not acceptable.

Good question, where would the page be placed in that particular
language if there was not equivalent page in the other language? In this
case I would say that the page would only be translated by the
translation tools as there would be no area for the page to reside.
Unless it proved interesting and important to reside on a particular
localised site, then, it could be formally translated by a human hand.

As far as falling back to English, IMO, seeing as this is the agreed
international language for the site, it just makes sense to have it
fallback to international English. We should all keep in mind that there
will also be a localised English site just like all other supported
languages and that the localised English site may also have pages that
do not apply to any other languages. It should still be available
publicly if a translation of that page is offered. We profess to be
transparent, then there should be no problem with other groups reading
our pages in translated form.

>>
>> To summarise we will be maintaining the integrity and quality of all
>> of the 'important' content while allowing cross-language communication
>> in real time for community discussions. I envisage that this should
>> break down a lot of barriers for people getting involved in the
>> project.
>
> We break the barriers by providing support and content in the language
> of the user and the contributors. Several native language teams have
> already strong communities of users and contributors, this works really
> well for the OOo NLC and we should not break this imho. For the French
> team for example, they are already working on documentation, QA and
> marketing. There is a forum running for thousands of users and mailing
> list are quite busy too. I don't see how all this activity will run if
> you translate the content from English as a central language to the
> other languages, that will be seen has a very very negative approach. Or
> may be I missed something?

I think so. The translation tools are not based on English being the
predominant language. In fact, the Drupal team does not think this way
and I would personally give the Drupal Dev Team a "gentle" reminder and
nudge, that we are all a community of equals. For all we know, the best
documentation could be found on the German or Spanish or French or
Italian or ... sites. This attempt to use the translation tools is to
enable access for everyone to all parts of the site. This will give all
language groups a better view of each others organisations and will make
for a better solid community. The Drupal team sees the translation tools
more of a bonding tool rather than a fractious tool. The respect for the
different participating languages are heralded.

>
> I've added Jean-Baptiste Faure in CC of this mail, because I'm still
> travelling and he will be able to answer the questions you may have
> during the two next days where I'll be disconnected.
>
> But again this is really important that the contents for the Native
> Language sites are provided in the native language of this group by this
> group and reflect the needs of this group, not the one of another
> language, be it English, German or Japanese. I hope you understand
> my/our concerns because the approach is really different, may be at the
> opposite, of your proposal. This approach has permitted to build a
> strong and efficient community in OpenOffice.org and shall be continued
> the same way here.

In my mind, the same approach is still there. The only difference is
that people will be able to navigate, for example, the French site and
able to enjoy the work that you have created. So, if a Chinese visitor
to the site wanted to see what the other sites had accomplished, that
visitor could browse to the French site and read in her/his native
language the pages on the French site.

At question here is more the accuracy of the translation tools and
whether we are comfortable with its accuracy rate. This will only be
evident once we start filling in the Drupal "test" localised sites with
information and we (members) evaluate its success rate. Would we be
content with a 60%-70%-80% etc. accuracy rate? I guess we will have to
see. Personally, I am also curious as to how accurate the tools will be
and whether or not they will be acceptable. We may decide to allow their
use but with a clear caveat of its accuracy rate.

>
> There is no emergency currently, we can still take time to speak about
> it if you need to. I'll be back on Wednesday, don't hesitate to ask any
> further questions or explanations you may need.
>
> Kind regards
> Sophie

The translation tools question is up for debate and discussion by all
members. I am of the opinion of let's install the tools and see. We can
always remove them if they are not acceptable to the community. This all
before the site goes live. We should at least try to make all sites
accessible to all people.

Cheers

Marc



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Laurent Espitallier Laurent Espitallier
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress


Le 22/11/2010 20:16, Marc Paré a écrit :
>
> BTW, a good suggestion that Jean-Sebastien had was to offer a button
> whereby the member/visitor could either turn on/off the translation
> tools as well as an offer to translate the page for the site.
>

It would be perfect...


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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

Le 2010-11-22 14:40, Laurent Espitallier a écrit :

>
> Le 22/11/2010 20:16, Marc Paré a écrit :
>>
>> BTW, a good suggestion that Jean-Sebastien had was to offer a button
>> whereby the member/visitor could either turn on/off the translation
>> tools as well as an offer to translate the page for the site.
>>
>
> It would be perfect...
>
>
Merci. I have already sent it to the Drupal Dev Team.

Marc


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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

In reply to this post by Laurent Espitallier
Hi, :-)

Don't be over-optimistic with the results you'll get with machine
translation. Sometimes, they're good for a belly laugh, Frequently,
they're totally off-target.

You'd do *much* better to recruit the support of human translators.

0.2 cents.

David Nelson

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

Le 2010-11-22 14:51, David Nelson a écrit :

> Hi, :-)
>
> Don't be over-optimistic with the results you'll get with machine
> translation. Sometimes, they're good for a belly laugh, Frequently,
> they're totally off-target.
>
> You'd do *much* better to recruit the support of human translators.
>
> 0.2 cents.
>
> David Nelson

Yup, let's keep our fingers crossed at the results.

I have to admit that it is getting better. I use quite a few translation
sites and by far Google is the best. We will have to try to abide by
some "cordial" rules such as no contractions, possessives and
colloquialisms in our sentences. This will help in making the site more
easily translatable.

Cheers

Marc



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Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

In reply to this post by marcpare4
Hi Marc!

Although I do think that automatic translation might help in some cases,
it is unlikely that it provides the outcome that is currently claimed.
As I said earlier, if we come to technical terminology within LibO, then
all non-domain specific (or aware) translation tools do more harm than
they do help. At least, sometimes I enjoy reading those translations :-)

Sophie is right when she says, that the communication and the help
between the people speaking a certain language (or, being in a certain
area) helped to grow what we currently experience as "the community".
She is also right, that the approach - and therefore the contents of the
documents - varies between all the native lang groups.

>From my point-of-view (given the experience within the OOo project), the
following approach might combine all the positive effects :-)
      * Provide the most essential information on LibO and TDF in all
        languages, derived from the main language English. The content
        for the other languages should be translated "manually".
      * Enable the language teams to add own content - independent from
        the main language English.
      * For non-critical content, provide a way to translate the given
        content. I think it would be most helpful for "normal"
        conversations like in forums or emails. Besides the already
        stated "button" metaphor, make sure that people are aware of
        reading a translated text (the rest is an usability problem
        which can be solved, happy to help here).

(Oh, I just saw that Michael did already mention this in another mail.
Sorry for sending it another time, but maybe it helps to support his
idea.)

Sophie, thanks for your input here - I'm sure your great experience will
help to make the infrastructure "rock". Also, thanks to Marc and all the
other people that drive the infrastructure topic!

Cheers,
Christoph

Am Montag, den 22.11.2010, 14:16 -0500 schrieb Marc Paré:
> A good example where such a tool would come in handy is exactly this
> thread. How many more people would contribute to this particular
> thread is the automatic translation tools allowed them the opportunity
> to view/read these threads. OR for that matter how many more people
> would participate on the Drupal Website Development Team if the
> translation tools would help.


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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

Thanks all for the input to this concept.

I just wanted to clarify a couple of points:

1. Localisation teams will still exist in an ecosystem along side the
development, design, marketing groups.
   All communications in these groups will be in native languages, but
others can also contribute to them using auto-translations.
   Not ideal, but we don't have enough translators to get them to
translate every conversation on the site.

2. As mentioned before the main site will be structured the same way
for all languages. English is not the default translate to-from
language, it is the simply the fallback if a translation is not
available.
ie. if someone in china accesses a page originally written in french
with no other translations available it will display in french. If an
english translation is available it will display in english. If there
is a chinese translation available it will display in chinese.

In terms of the Q&A section, I would expect that there will be a
knowledge base of manually translated questions and answers along side
an ad-hoc section which would be automatically translated. Quality
ad-hoc questions when answered could be moved to the knowledge base
section then manually translated for accuracy. The concept is fluid at
the moment, so if you would like to see any other features please let
us know.

Michael Wheatland

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

Le 2010-11-22 21:10, Michael Wheatland a écrit :

> Thanks all for the input to this concept.
>
> I just wanted to clarify a couple of points:
>
> 1. Localisation teams will still exist in an ecosystem along side the
> development, design, marketing groups.
>     All communications in these groups will be in native languages, but
> others can also contribute to them using auto-translations.
>     Not ideal, but we don't have enough translators to get them to
> translate every conversation on the site.
>
> 2. As mentioned before the main site will be structured the same way
> for all languages. English is not the default translate to-from
> language, it is the simply the fallback if a translation is not
> available.
> ie. if someone in china accesses a page originally written in french
> with no other translations available it will display in french. If an
> english translation is available it will display in english. If there
> is a chinese translation available it will display in chinese.
>
> In terms of the Q&A section, I would expect that there will be a
> knowledge base of manually translated questions and answers along side
> an ad-hoc section which would be automatically translated. Quality
> ad-hoc questions when answered could be moved to the knowledge base
> section then manually translated for accuracy. The concept is fluid at
> the moment, so if you would like to see any other features please let
> us know.
>
> Michael Wheatland
>

Hmmm. Yes, a lot of work and detail will have to go into this
implementation as well as crucial tests and discussions on tolerance
limits (how much of an accuracy rate will we accept).

I was thinking that if we were serious enough about this, that we could
try to involve the services of the Google translation team. With a
potential user base of approximately 110 million users, this may get
them interested in this part of the project. I am sure that there is a
certain amount of repeated sentences that over time we could have a
greater refinement of automatic translation specifically tailored to the
LibreOffice group; this would presumably increase the accuracy % by
quite a bit.

Marc


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sophi sophi
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Re: Update on Drupal Website Progress

Hi,

> Le 2010-11-22 21:10, Michael Wheatland a écrit :
>> Thanks all for the input to this concept.
>>
>> I just wanted to clarify a couple of points:
>>
>> 1. Localisation teams will still exist in an ecosystem along side the
>> development, design, marketing groups.
>> All communications in these groups will be in native languages, but
>> others can also contribute to them using auto-translations.
>> Not ideal, but we don't have enough translators to get them to
>> translate every conversation on the site.

This is where you are mistaken, this is not about localization, it's
about native language. No localization in these groups is needed
concerning their work on their sites. No Google translation, no Drupal
translation, no Pootle translation.
>>
>> 2. As mentioned before the main site will be structured the same way
>> for all languages. English is not the default translate to-from
>> language, it is the simply the fallback if a translation is not
>> available.

No, each language will structure their site as they want. And English is
not a fall back. If the page doesn't exist in the given language of the
site, it doesn't exist at all on any the site.

>> ie. if someone in china accesses a page originally written in french
>> with no other translations available it will display in french.

It's completely stupid, sorry for that. The content of this page may
have absolutely no relevance for the Chinese Group, why should they have
our shop pages displayed. Another example, why should you display the
German page about their Box? it only is relevant for the German Group.
Each language group has its own life and is not shared by the others
every time. We are not cloned.
If an
>> english translation is available it will display in english.

And it's not acceptable for a sake of quality. It will give a very poor
image of our groups.

  If there
>> is a chinese translation available it will display in chinese.

Really irrelevant.

>>
>> In terms of the Q&A section, I would expect that there will be a
>> knowledge base of manually translated questions and answers along side
>> an ad-hoc section which would be automatically translated. Quality
>> ad-hoc questions when answered could be moved to the knowledge base
>> section then manually translated for accuracy. The concept is fluid at
>> the moment, so if you would like to see any other features please let
>> us know.

Again, the QA team are used to work together, so don't put constraints
where they are not needed.

Currently, all this has my absolute veto.

Kind regards
Sophie
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