Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

Hi, :-)

I need some more sample files with which I can produce screenshots for
the libreoffice.org, from *all* the LibO apps.

If you have LibO files (from Writer, Calc and Impress) that contain
attractively-presented content that is not copyrighted, please mail
them to me ASAP.

If you have any well-presented equations for Math, I need some more too.

Similarly, if you have any databases for Base with well-peopled
tables, and with forms and reports, I need them, too.

Thanks for any help. ;-)

David Nelson

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sophi sophi
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

Hi all,
On 08/01/2011 15:48, David Nelson wrote:

> Hi, :-)
>
> I need some more sample files with which I can produce screenshots for
> the libreoffice.org, from *all* the LibO apps.
>
> If you have LibO files (from Writer, Calc and Impress) that contain
> attractively-presented content that is not copyrighted, please mail
> them to me ASAP.
>
> If you have any well-presented equations for Math, I need some more too.
>
> Similarly, if you have any databases for Base with well-peopled
> tables, and with forms and reports, I need them, too.
In English and not under Windows, please :-)
> Thanks for any help. ;-)
+1

Kind regards
Sophie

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drewjensen drewjensen
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

On Sat, 2011-01-08 at 15:57 +0300, sophie wrote:

> Hi all,
> On 08/01/2011 15:48, David Nelson wrote:
> > Hi, :-)
> >
> > I need some more sample files with which I can produce screenshots for
> > the libreoffice.org, from *all* the LibO apps.
> >
> > If you have LibO files (from Writer, Calc and Impress) that contain
> > attractively-presented content that is not copyrighted, please mail
> > them to me ASAP.
> >
> > If you have any well-presented equations for Math, I need some more too.
> >
> > Similarly, if you have any databases for Base with well-peopled
> > tables, and with forms and reports, I need them, too.
> In English and not under Windows, please :-)

Windows....arrrgh - ok. *smile*

@David - is there a particular size you want?


> > Thanks for any help. ;-)
> +1
+1



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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

Hi Drew, :-)

Guy I need sample FILES not screenshots. I'll do all screenshots
myself in a uniform manner....

And Sophie, sorry, but they *will* be under Windows, not Linux, even
though I'm a full-time Linux user myself, because *most* people use
Windows and I don't want people thinking LibreOffice is some kind of
marginal, geek product.

TIA for any good data files you got..... IN ENGLISH.

David Nelson

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sophi sophi
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

Hi David,
On 08/01/2011 16:19, David Nelson wrote:
> Hi Drew, :-)
>
> Guy I need sample FILES not screenshots. I'll do all screenshots
> myself in a uniform manner....
>
> And Sophie, sorry, but they *will* be under Windows, not Linux, even
> though I'm a full-time Linux user myself, because *most* people use
> Windows and I don't want people thinking LibreOffice is some kind of
> marginal, geek product.
There is some legal reasons for not having them under Windows, from what
I remember you're not allowed to make screenshots of Windows product,
this is noted on their website.
You can make the skin of your Linux looks like Windows and you're safe :-)

> TIA for any good data files you got..... IN ENGLISH.
The difficult part for me ;-) If they are in English, they are not mine :)
Kind regards
Sophie


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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

In reply to this post by davidnelson
Hi Drew, :-)

Or, if you feel able to help out by taking screenshots yourself, then:

a) a big thanks for the helping hand! ;-)

b) take them under MS Windows using a DARK SLATE GRAY theme (window frame, etc)
(I fail to believe that Bill is going to sue us because we took
screenshots of our own product under MS Windows...)

c) take the *window only* - no desktop

d) 400px wide by 300px tall - please try not to stretch/squash the proportions

e) Anything up to a dozen good shots from each app is what I'm hoping
to accumulate.... in each app, demo the ke features: in Writer,
tables, indexes, etc..... I'm sure you see what I mean....

Just mail me whatever you got, whatever you can, when you can, and -
once again - a *big* thanks :-D

David Nelson




On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 21:32, drew <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, 2011-01-08 at 21:19 +0800, David Nelson wrote:
>> Hi Drew, :-)
>>
>> Guy I need sample FILES not screenshots. I'll do all screenshots
>> myself in a uniform manner....
>>
>
> Ok, most of what I have does not use embedded database files, but I have
> a few of those also.
>
> Will send a these direct to your email account.
>
> Ciao,
>
> Drew
>
>
>
>
>
>
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sophi sophi
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

Hi David, Drew,
On 08/01/2011 16:45, David Nelson wrote:
> Hi Drew, :-)
>
> Or, if you feel able to help out by taking screenshots yourself, then:
>
> a) a big thanks for the helping hand! ;-)
>
> b) take them under MS Windows using a DARK SLATE GRAY theme (window frame, etc)
> (I fail to believe that Bill is going to sue us because we took
> screenshots of our own product under MS Windows...)
Sorry to insist but I don't want to take the risk :
This is what is written on the site :*
Requirements for Allowed Uses*

For permission to be granted for any uses allowed by these guidelines,
you must comply with the following four requirements:

   1.

      If your use includes references to a Microsoft product, you must
      use the full name of the product. When referencing any Microsoft
      trademarks, follow the General Microsoft Trademark Guidelines
      <http://www.microsoft.com/About/Legal/EN/US/IntellectualProperty/Trademarks/Default.aspx>.

   2.

      You must include the following statement: "Used with permission
      from Microsoft."

   3.

      Your use may not be obscene or pornographic, and you may not be
      disparaging, defamatory, or libelous to Microsoft, any of its
      products, or any other person or entity.

   4.

      You may link to Microsoft content by using either a plain text
      link with words such as "This way to Microsoft.com" or by
      participating in an applicable Link Logo program. No other images
      may be used as a link to a Microsoft site.

Screen Shots

You may not use screen shots of Microsoft product boot-up screens,
opening screens, "splash screens," or screens from beta release products
or other products that have not been commercially released. You may use
other screen shots in advertising, in documentation (including
educational brochures), in tutorial books, in videotapes, or on Web
sites, provided that, in addition to the requirements above, you:

   1.

      Do not alter the screen shot except to resize it.

   2.

      Do not use portions of screen shots.

   3.

      Do not include screen shots in your product user interface.

   4.

      Do not use screen shots that contain third-party content.

   5.

      Do not use screen shots that contain an image of an identifiable
      individual.

--------------------------------
So it is clear that you're not allowed to take screenshots showing LibO
on a Windows system. And I don't find very sexy to add on each "Used
with permission from Microsoft"

As said you can adapt the LibO theme and your Linux them to look more
Windows like and everything will be ok. This is what we have done for
years for OOo and guess what, we have sell several copy of it ;-)

Kind regards
Sophie


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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

Hi Sophie, :-)

Truthfully, your interpretation of what that text refers to is
erroneous... they are talking of screenshots of Microsoft products
such as MS Windows or Office, but *not* of screenshots taken of other
people's products and works simply running under MS Windows... There's
no need to worry. You see screenshots of software running under
Windows *all over the Internet*... ;-) We're perfectly safe. ;-)

In any case, I already took a large number of screenshots, and our
documentation is *full* of screenshots taken under Windows, so this
would involve an *enormous* amount of work to rectify...... ;-)

David Nelson

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

In reply to this post by davidnelson
Hi Drew, all, ;-)

> if you feel able to help out by taking screenshots yourself, then:
>
> a) a big thanks for the helping hand! ;-)
>
> b) take them under MS Windows using a DARK SLATE GRAY theme (window frame, etc)
> (I fail to believe that Bill is going to sue us because we took
> screenshots of our own product under MS Windows...)
>
> c) take the *window only* - no desktop
>
> d) 400px wide by 300px tall - please try not to stretch/squash the proportions
>
> e) Anything up to a dozen good shots from each app is what I'm hoping
> to accumulate.... in each app, demo the ke features: in Writer,
> tables, indexes, etc..... I'm sure you see what I mean....
>
> Just mail me whatever you got, whatever you can, when you can, and -
> once again - a *big* thanks :-D

So, once again, my need is the above. ;-)

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

Hi Fabian, Drew, all, :-)

>> if you feel able to help out by taking screenshots yourself, then:
>>
>> a) a big thanks for the helping hand! ;-)
>>
>> b) take them under MS Windows using a DARK SLATE GRAY theme (window frame, etc)
>>    (or if you really want to use Linux, a theme that closely resembles the above)
>>
>> c) take the *window only* - no desktop
>>
>> d) 400px wide by 300px tall - please try not to stretch/squash the proportions
>>
>> e) Anything up to a dozen good shots from each app is what I'm hoping
>> to accumulate.... in each app, demo the ke features: in Writer,
>> tables, indexes, etc..... I'm sure you see what I mean....
>> (that would ideally be a total of 60 to 70 screenshots of the 6 products?
>> but you best effort will be gratefully accepted... ;-)
>>
>> Just mail me whatever you got, whatever you can, when you can, and -
>> once again - a *big* thanks :-D

Or, please just send me sample documents that I can use. ;-)

David Nelson

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sophi sophi
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

In reply to this post by davidnelson
Hi David,
On 08/01/2011 17:54, David Nelson wrote:
> Hi Sophie, :-)
>
> Truthfully, your interpretation of what that text refers to is
> erroneous... they are talking of screenshots of Microsoft products
> such as MS Windows or Office, but *not* of screenshots taken of other
> people's products and works simply running under MS Windows... There's
> no need to worry. You see screenshots of software running under
> Windows *all over the Internet*... ;-) We're perfectly safe. ;-)

No, it's not my interpretation (I know I may not have a full
understanding of another language :), we never get a firm statement but
only different interpretations from lawyers, this is why we have decided
to not use screen shots made using Windows. I can't remember where the
discussions occurs on the OOo site, maybe website list, I'll point you
to the archives otherwise.

It may sound stupid, but can you imagine that I had to declare people
using ssh for the OOoFR site in France several years ago because the
encryption we used was not allowed and considered as a security issue.
I'm sure the Debian contributors never have to do so. Just to say that
we have to be cautious.
>
> In any case, I already took a large number of screenshots, and our
> documentation is *full* of screenshots taken under Windows, so this
> would involve an *enormous* amount of work to rectify...... ;-)

Yes may be, but it's not a sufficient reason to continue to take the
risk :). The more we are visible and known, the more we are exposed.

Kind regards
Sophie
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

In reply to this post by davidnelson
Hi, :-)

To restate the need...

I need some more sample files with which I can produce screenshots for
the libreoffice.org, from *all* the LibO apps.

If you have LibO files (from Writer, Calc and Impress) that contain
attractively-presented content that is not copyrighted, please mail
them to me ASAP.

If you have any well-presented equations for Math, I need some more too.

Similarly, if you have any databases for Base with well-peopled
tables, and with forms and reports, I need them, too.

Or, if you feel able to help out by taking screenshots yourself, then:

a) a big thanks for the helping hand! ;-)

b) take them using a theme that closely resembles MS Windows
using a DARK SLATE GRAY theme (window frame, etc)

c) take the *window only* - no desktop

d) 400px wide by 300px tall - please try not to stretch/squash the proportions

e) Anything up to a dozen good shots from each app is what I'm hoping
to accumulate.... in each app, demo the ke features: in Writer,
tables, indexes, etc..... I'm sure you see what I mean....

f) The file you use for taking the screenshot should ideally be called
"sample.odt" (or whatever extension)

Just mail me whatever you got, whatever you can, when you can, and -
once again - a *big* thanks :-D

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sophi sophi
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

Hi David,
On 08/01/2011 18:42, David Nelson wrote:
[...]
>
> b) take them using a theme that closely resembles MS Windows
> using a DARK SLATE GRAY theme (window frame, etc)
Thanks for your understanding, it is really appreciate :-)

[...]
> Just mail me whatever you got, whatever you can, when you can, and -
> once again - a *big* thanks :-D
If you still need something by tomorrow, tell me, I can turn my UI to
English and fill some nice content.

Kind regards
Sophie


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Stefan Weigel Stefan Weigel
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

In reply to this post by davidnelson
Hi David,

Am 08.01.2011 14:19, schrieb David Nelson:

> And Sophie, sorry, but they *will* be under Windows, not Linux

This has already been intensively discussed an investigated, when we
were making screenshots for OpenOffice.org website and
documentation. André Schnabel even directly and officially asked at
Microsoft. The final result of all this:

Do not use Screenshots taken from a programme running on MS Windows,
when you are going to use these screenshots in a document, that´s
supposed to be under a free license.

Stefan

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Stefan Weigel
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> Am 08.01.2011 14:19, schrieb David Nelson:
>
>> And Sophie, sorry, but they *will* be under Windows, not Linux
>
> This has already been intensively discussed an investigated, when we
> were making screenshots for OpenOffice.org website and
> documentation. André Schnabel even directly and officially asked at
> Microsoft. The final result of all this:
>
> Do not use Screenshots taken from a programme running on MS Windows,
> when you are going to use these screenshots in a document, that´s
> supposed to be under a free license.
>
> Stefan

Can you provide links to this discussion or the Microsoft policies
that imply copyright protection for screenshots. I would love to read
them myself.

Cheers.

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sophi sophi
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

In reply to this post by Stefan Weigel
Hi Stefan,
On 08/01/2011 21:41, Stefan Weigel wrote:
[...]

> This has already been intensively discussed an investigated, when we
> were making screenshots for OpenOffice.org website and
> documentation. André Schnabel even directly and officially asked at
> Microsoft. The final result of all this:
>
> Do not use Screenshots taken from a programme running on MS Windows,
> when you are going to use these screenshots in a document, that´s
> supposed to be under a free license.

Stefan, thanks a lot for your support :) Finally, David has understand
that using Windows screen shots might be problematic, so it is safe for
us to provide his work on our website :)

Kind regards
Sophie

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Stefan Weigel Stefan Weigel
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Re: Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
Am 08.01.2011 19:58, schrieb Michael Wheatland:

>> Do not use Screenshots taken from a programme running on MS Windows,
>> when you are going to use these screenshots in a document, that´s
>> supposed to be under a free license.
>>
>> Stefan
>
> Can you provide links to this discussion or the Microsoft policies
> that imply copyright protection for screenshots. I would love to read
> them myself.

I am afraid it´s german:

http://de.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=dev&from=1569535&to=1569535&count=49&by=thread&first=1&windowSize=1000

http://de.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=dev&from=1559682&to=1559682&count=34&by=thread&first=1&windowSize=1000

AFAIR there is no problem, that MS would not allow to use
screenshots for your own website or documentation. But the problem
is, that you are not allowed to publish your work under a free
licence, when it contains elements that belong to MS. MS claims that
window frames, title bars, and controls like the OK-Button are part
of the operating system, which means they are subject to the
copyright restrictions. These elements are not under a free licence.
You cannot use GPL, LGPL or CC or whatever free licence, if your
work contains non-free elements.

Stefan

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drewjensen drewjensen
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

In reply to this post by davidnelson
On Sat, 2011-01-08 at 21:19 +0800, David Nelson wrote:
> And Sophie, sorry, but they *will* be under Windows, not Linux, even
> though I'm a full-time Linux user myself, because

Hi David,

I don't remember all the details on the research on this from OO.o but I
certainly remember it happened.

@David There are many things such as layout of the screens right now
that I would simply defer to you at the moment, however in your
statement above there isn't any "because", because that just isn't the
type of unilateral decision any one of us can make, in that fashion, on
something like this.

I know from reading your other mail that you have created shots under MS
Windows and am sorry for what is therefore a burden on your efforts but
I don't think there is a lot of wiggle room here.

There are a few files I've found that would show well IMO and I can
theme close to MS Windows but using Ubuntu or SUSE right now and
honestly it would be nice to, IMO, and I know 'we' could, get a set of
Mac screens also - which is not entangled, I think.

Anyway, that is how I see it and is my opinion.

Thanks

Drew


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

In reply to this post by sophi
Hi, :-)

OK, restatement of need again. I am going to scrap all the screenshots
I previously took under Windows and completely start again.

For those of you who want to help me with screenshots, can we please
follow these bases *exactly*, so that we get a uniform set of shots
that don't spoil the site design? (I am starting my shot-taking now,
and won't be re-doing it again, so this is the way the shots on the
site are going to be for the moment.)

I have decided to adopt 1000px by 750px for the window size when
taking the shot. (Under Ubuntu, you can easily use "Screen Ruler" for
accurately sizing the window. The actual graphic shown on the pages
will be downsized.)

I am going to use screenshots taken under Ubuntu with the default
Ambiance theme (with *no* visual effects activated).

Reminder:

I need some more sample files with which I can produce screenshots for
the libreoffice.org, from *all* the LibO apps.

If you have LibO files (from Writer, Calc and Impress) that contain
attractively-presented content that is not copyrighted, please mail
them to me ASAP.

If you have any well-presented equations for Math, I need some more too.

Similarly, if you have any databases for Base with well-peopled
tables, and with forms and reports, I need them, too.

Or, if you feel able to help out by taking screenshots yourself, then:

a) Take them under Ubuntu Linux, using the Ambiance theme, with *no*
visual effects.

b) Take the *window only* with the window frame - not the whole desktop.

c) 1000px wide by 750px tall - you can use Screen Ruler to accurately
size the window.

e) Anything up to a dozen good shots from each app is what I'm hoping
to accumulate.... in each app, demo the key features: in Writer,
tables, indexes, etc..... I'm sure you see what I mean....

f) The file you use for taking the screenshot should ideally be called
"sample.odt" (or whatever extension)

I'll be working on this today Sunday, Jan 9, and tomorrow Monday, Jan
10. I'll be able to use all your contributions that comply with the
above and that arrive within these 2 days.

Please mail your contributions directly to me. ;-)

A big thanks for any help. ;-)

P.S. If you're not posting specifically about the work I'm talking
about on this thread, please post under another thread and do not go
OT here. Thanks for you kind understanding about this.

David Nelson

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Alex Thurgood Alex Thurgood
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

In reply to this post by Stefan Weigel
Hi all,

Le 08/01/11 19:41, Stefan Weigel a écrit :

> This has already been intensively discussed an investigated, when we
> were making screenshots for OpenOffice.org website and
> documentation. André Schnabel even directly and officially asked at
> Microsoft. The final result of all this:
>
> Do not use Screenshots taken from a programme running on MS Windows,
> when you are going to use these screenshots in a document, that´s
> supposed to be under a free license.
>

I remember this discussion from the OOo lists. I may even have been one
of the lawyers involved ;-) that gave an opinion, separately to André's
direct request to Microsoft.

Microsoft considers that all of its UI, in each and every version, is
protected by copyright. Whether that would actually hold up in a court
of law is another matter, and would be extremely fact and jurisdiction
dependent, but ultimately the question that should be asked is whether
the LibreOffice project, and TDF, are prepared to take that risk. My
opinion is that it would be unwise to knowingly embark on anything that
publicly puts the project into the realms of a potential litigation for
alleged IP infringement.

Oh, and just to dispel any doubt : just because a million other people
do it without ever having any problems from Microsoft does not mean that
this project will be let off as easily. I rather believe quite the
opposite, MS will be watching this project to see whether it gets off
the ground and becomes a threat to it, much as it did with Sun. Let us
not forget that Sun and Microsoft signed an agreement with regard to IP
rights that led to the dropping of their relative mutual destruction IP
law suits, and that OpenOffice.org was specifically mentioned in that
agreement.

Caveat emptor. And yes, I'm probably paranoid ;-)

Alex


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