Website and wiki design

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Per Eriksson Per Eriksson
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Website and wiki design


  Hi everybody,

I was looking at the Fedora project and how nicely they have integrated
their normal website with their wiki. The navigation between the sites
works seamlessly, and they look very much the same.

I would like to get the same experience when visiting our sites, and
have come up with a couple of suggestions:

* Adjusting the header so that it does not move when navigating between
the sites.
* The wiki's logo link goes to the website giving the user one front page.
* Adding the website's main navigation to the top?

Anyway, these are just suggestions that I think would improve the user
experience overall.

Please give me your thoughts and ideas. If you all think these are good
ideas I would be happy to integrate them.

Best Regards

Per

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epix epix
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Re: Website and wiki design

Hi Per, *

Am 11.10.2010 11:22, schrieb Per Eriksson:
> I was looking at the Fedora project and how nicely they have integrated
> their normal website with their wiki. The navigation between the sites
> works seamlessly, and they look very much the same.

nice example indeed  :-)


> I would like to get the same experience when visiting our sites, and
> have come up with a couple of suggestions:
> * Adjusting the header so that it does not move when navigating between
> the sites.

+1

> * The wiki's logo link goes to the website giving the user one front page.

Hm, it goes to the wiki main page which most users would expect, links
to the website are under topic navigation in the main navi.


> * Adding the website's main navigation to the top?

Not sure if I get you right, but I think it should stay clear whether
you're on the wiki or on the website. I would not not mind a main navi
on the left incuding prominent links to the website like they do.
We would have two rows of tabs on top of the wiki page with the
website's navi and I'm quite sure one would rather want to navigate
through the wiki pages than browsing the website.


> Anyway, these are just suggestions that I think would improve the user
> experience overall.

Thank you for starting this, it's about time...


> Please give me your thoughts and ideas. If you all think these are good
> ideas I would be happy to integrate them.

That's good  :-) I'm not really fit in wikidesign and I think fedora
really shows a nice way to do it. Reading the list here gave me the
expression that there are a lot of pages already but there's no navi on
the main page to access them... the docu link appeared just recently.

Please set up a native lang main category and/or a nice nl navi like
fedora did, I think there are quite some people ready to set up
localized pages.

Kind regards
Erich

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sophi sophi
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Re: Website and wiki design

Hi Per, Erich,

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Erich Christian <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Per, *
>
> Am 11.10.2010 11:22, schrieb Per Eriksson:
>> I was looking at the Fedora project and how nicely they have integrated
>> their normal website with their wiki. The navigation between the sites
>> works seamlessly, and they look very much the same.
>
> nice example indeed  :-)

Christoph pointed me to their wiki  join page and I really like it.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join
>
>
>> I would like to get the same experience when visiting our sites, and
>> have come up with a couple of suggestions:
>> * Adjusting the header so that it does not move when navigating between
>> the sites.
>
> +1
+1 too
>
>> * The wiki's logo link goes to the website giving the user one front page.
>
> Hm, it goes to the wiki main page which most users would expect, links
> to the website are under topic navigation in the main navi.

agreed with Erich

>
>
>> * Adding the website's main navigation to the top?
>
> Not sure if I get you right, but I think it should stay clear whether
> you're on the wiki or on the website. I would not not mind a main navi
> on the left incuding prominent links to the website like they do.
> We would have two rows of tabs on top of the wiki page with the
> website's navi and I'm quite sure one would rather want to navigate
> through the wiki pages than browsing the website.

agreed also
>
>
>> Anyway, these are just suggestions that I think would improve the user
>> experience overall.
>
> Thank you for starting this, it's about time...

they are great suggestions, thanks a lot!
>
>
>> Please give me your thoughts and ideas. If you all think these are good
>> ideas I would be happy to integrate them.
>
> That's good  :-) I'm not really fit in wikidesign and I think fedora
> really shows a nice way to do it. Reading the list here gave me the
> expression that there are a lot of pages already but there's no navi on
> the main page to access them... the docu link appeared just recently.

Yes, we really need to have links to the categories on the main page
to give some guidance to our visitors.
Per could you work on this ? Adding QA, Documentation, Marketing,
Website would be great.
>
> Please set up a native lang main category and/or a nice nl navi like
> fedora did, I think there are quite some people ready to set up
> localized pages.

I would like us to wait a little bit on the native lang category,
because Khirano will come with a proposal for a new denomination as we
won't call us NLC any more. What we can do is setting our language
category (just like Helen has just done with Russian
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Category:RU) and work with Khirano
work on the general naming and pages.

Thanks :)
Kind regards
Sophie

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Per Eriksson Per Eriksson
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Re: Website and wiki design


  Hi Erich and Sophie,

Sophie Gautier skrev 2010-10-11 15:30:
>>> * Adding the website's main navigation to the top?
>> Not sure if I get you right, but I think it should stay clear whether
>> you're on the wiki or on the website. I would not not mind a main navi
>> on the left incuding prominent links to the website like they do.
>> We would have two rows of tabs on top of the wiki page with the
>> website's navi and I'm quite sure one would rather want to navigate
>> through the wiki pages than browsing the website.

Just one thought here.

I think that users that arrive to the wiki through a link on the website
expect to be able to navigate back to the website in an easy way.
Because they are both content for the user.

This while community members might want to stay on the wiki because they
know what's there :-)

Maybe adding a small link "Back to website" would help both kinds of users?

Best

Per

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Per Eriksson Per Eriksson
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Re: Website and wiki design

In reply to this post by sophi

  Hi,

Sophie Gautier skrev 2010-10-11 15:30:
>> That's good  :-) I'm not really fit in wikidesign and I think fedora
>> really shows a nice way to do it. Reading the list here gave me the
>> expression that there are a lot of pages already but there's no navi on
>> the main page to access them... the docu link appeared just recently.
> Yes, we really need to have links to the categories on the main page
> to give some guidance to our visitors.
> Per could you work on this ? Adding QA, Documentation, Marketing,
> Website would be great.

Sure, let's add navigational links for the website's main navigation and
the main wiki categories currently on the wiki + on the front page. That
way the user will be able to navigate to both websites :-)

I could sketch something up until tomorrow, testing a few variants.

Best Regards

Per

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sophi sophi
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Re: Website and wiki design

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Per Eriksson
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>  Hi,
>
> Sophie Gautier skrev 2010-10-11 15:30:
>>>
>>> That's good  :-) I'm not really fit in wikidesign and I think fedora
>>> really shows a nice way to do it. Reading the list here gave me the
>>> expression that there are a lot of pages already but there's no navi on
>>> the main page to access them... the docu link appeared just recently.
>>
>> Yes, we really need to have links to the categories on the main page
>> to give some guidance to our visitors.
>> Per could you work on this ? Adding QA, Documentation, Marketing,
>> Website would be great.
>
> Sure, let's add navigational links for the website's main navigation and the
> main wiki categories currently on the wiki + on the front page. That way the
> user will be able to navigate to both websites :-)
>
> I could sketch something up until tomorrow, testing a few variants.

Great, thank you very much :)

Kind regards
Sophie

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Benjamin Horst Benjamin Horst
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Re: Website and wiki design

In reply to this post by sophi
Hello Per, Erich and Sophie:

>> Am 11.10.2010 11:22, schrieb Per Eriksson:
>>> I was looking at the Fedora project and how nicely they have integrated
>>> their normal website with their wiki. The navigation between the sites
>>> works seamlessly, and they look very much the same.
>>
>> nice example indeed  :-)
>
> Christoph pointed me to their wiki  join page and I really like it.
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join

We can and should style the main LibO wiki page as a landing page that points users effectively to all the various sections it contains. First step is to list the requirements of this page, then to wireframe it, then to design, then to build.

>>> I would like to get the same experience when visiting our sites, and
>>> have come up with a couple of suggestions:
>>> * Adjusting the header so that it does not move when navigating between
>>> the sites.
>>
>> +1
> +1 too

Agreed. There should be a common header above the main site and wiki to facilitate navigating between the two. The two should feel much more cohesive than they did for OOo's pages.
>>
>>> * The wiki's logo link goes to the website giving the user one front page.
>>
>> Hm, it goes to the wiki main page which most users would expect, links
>> to the website are under topic navigation in the main navi.
>
> agreed with Erich

This can be fixed with a common header above the wiki logo. The same common header should be used on the website and the wiki.

>>> * Adding the website's main navigation to the top?
>>
>> Not sure if I get you right, but I think it should stay clear whether
>> you're on the wiki or on the website. I would not not mind a main navi
>> on the left incuding prominent links to the website like they do.
>> We would have two rows of tabs on top of the wiki page with the
>> website's navi and I'm quite sure one would rather want to navigate
>> through the wiki pages than browsing the website.
>
> agreed also

The subheader for the wiki or website will make this clear, while maintaining a common header above them both.

>>> Please give me your thoughts and ideas. If you all think these are good
>>> ideas I would be happy to integrate them.
>>
>> That's good  :-) I'm not really fit in wikidesign and I think fedora
>> really shows a nice way to do it. Reading the list here gave me the
>> expression that there are a lot of pages already but there's no navi on
>> the main page to access them... the docu link appeared just recently.
>
> Yes, we really need to have links to the categories on the main page
> to give some guidance to our visitors.
> Per could you work on this ? Adding QA, Documentation, Marketing,
> Website would be great.

Let's create a wireframe before building, so we can share with this list and get feedback, in order to build the best system we can. I'll try to create an example to start from.

Thanks,
Ben

Benjamin Horst
[hidden email]
646-464-2314 (Eastern)
www.solidoffice.com


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epix epix
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Re: Website and wiki design

In reply to this post by sophi
Hi Sophie, *

Am 11.10.2010 15:30, schrieb Sophie Gautier:
[...]
> I would like us to wait a little bit on the native lang category,
> because Khirano will come with a proposal for a new denomination as we
> won't call us NLC any more. What we can do is setting our language
> category (just like Helen has just done with Russian
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Category:RU) and work with Khirano
> work on the general naming and pages.

No problem, this is what I did too earlier today, thanks for your
feedback - things are getting in motion...  ;-)

Erich

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epix epix
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Re: Website and wiki design

In reply to this post by Per Eriksson
Hi Per, Benjamin,

Am 11.10.2010 17:03, schrieb Per Eriksson:
[...]
> I could sketch something up until tomorrow, testing a few variants.

Am 11.10.2010 17:24, schrieb Benjamin Horst:
[...]
> Let's create a wireframe before building, so we can share with this
list and get feedback, in order to build the best system we can. I'll
try to create an example to start from.

Thank you, great! I just grabbed the two promising paragraphs, hoping
you might synergize your efforts doing the prototyping...
Looking forward  :-)

Regards
Erich

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Per Eriksson Per Eriksson
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Re: Website and wiki design

In reply to this post by Per Eriksson

  Hi there,

Per Eriksson skrev 2010-10-11 17:03:

> Sophie Gautier skrev 2010-10-11 15:30:
>>> That's good  :-) I'm not really fit in wikidesign and I think fedora
>>> really shows a nice way to do it. Reading the list here gave me the
>>> expression that there are a lot of pages already but there's no navi on
>>> the main page to access them... the docu link appeared just recently.
>> Yes, we really need to have links to the categories on the main page
>> to give some guidance to our visitors.
>> Per could you work on this ? Adding QA, Documentation, Marketing,
>> Website would be great.
>
> Sure, let's add navigational links for the website's main navigation
> and the main wiki categories currently on the wiki + on the front
> page. That way the user will be able to navigate to both websites :-)
>
> I could sketch something up until tomorrow, testing a few variants.

Here are some initial sketches following my ideas, which will create
navigational possibillities for most groups I think. The links might
have to be alittle adjusted, but the general idea is to give the users
ways to navigate both within the wiki itself (i.e find content quickly)
as well as finding resources on the website.

Here's an illustrating screenshot
http://erinet.se/tdfwiki.png

Best

Per

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Christoph Noack-2 Christoph Noack-2
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Re: Website and wiki design

In reply to this post by Benjamin Horst
Hi Benjamin, all!

I am a very selective reader at the moment ... selective due to time
constraints, not because of lacking interest. So just a ...

Am Montag, den 11.10.2010, 11:24 -0400 schrieb Benjamin Horst:
> Let's create a wireframe before building, so we can share with this
> list and get feedback, in order to build the best system we can. I'll
> try to create an example to start from.

... "Thank you!" from my side. I'll try to join the discussion to not to
forget to add the UX point-of-view (if required, desired).

Have a nice evening!

Christoph


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Hirano Kazunari Hirano Kazunari
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Re: Website and wiki design

In reply to this post by sophi
Hi Sophie and all,

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Sophie Gautier
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I would like us to wait a little bit on the native lang category,
> because Khirano will come with a proposal for a new denomination as we
> won't call us NLC any more. What we can do is setting our language
> category (just like Helen has just done with Russian
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Category:RU) and work with Khirano
> work on the general naming and pages.

I have posted my proposal "wiki page for LibreOffice localization
language teams" to [hidden email]

Thanks,
khirano

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Benjamin Horst Benjamin Horst
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Re: Website and wiki design

In reply to this post by Per Eriksson
Per and all,

> Per Eriksson skrev 2010-10-11 17:03:
>> Sophie Gautier skrev 2010-10-11 15:30:
>>>> That's good  :-) I'm not really fit in wikidesign and I think fedora
>>>> really shows a nice way to do it. Reading the list here gave me the
>>>> expression that there are a lot of pages already but there's no navi on
>>>> the main page to access them... the docu link appeared just recently.
>>> Yes, we really need to have links to the categories on the main page
>>> to give some guidance to our visitors.
>>> Per could you work on this ? Adding QA, Documentation, Marketing,
>>> Website would be great.
>>
>> Sure, let's add navigational links for the website's main navigation and the main wiki categories currently on the wiki + on the front page. That way the user will be able to navigate to both websites :-)
>>
>> I could sketch something up until tomorrow, testing a few variants.
>
> Here are some initial sketches following my ideas, which will create navigational possibillities for most groups I think. The links might have to be alittle adjusted, but the general idea is to give the users ways to navigate both within the wiki itself (i.e find content quickly) as well as finding resources on the website.
>
> Here's an illustrating screenshot
> http://erinet.se/tdfwiki.png

I think this is a great start. I'm sure we will have more categories and subcategories to add over time, but this is the beginning. Will each one of those links point to a "landing page" for the section of content, containing more navigation and organization links? (I would suggest using "Homepage" or "Home" instead of "First Page", but this is minor.) Over time I'd like to divide the main part of the wiki homepage into smaller content blocks and logically organize them too, when we get to that point.

I've created a draft wireframe for the LibreOffice page of the TDF website. I envision the very top navigation shown in my wireframe being shared across the wiki and website, although I haven't created a wireframe for the wiki or any of the other pages of the TDF website yet. Also, a few spots are blank in the wireframe since I ran out of time today. :)

I'd like to expand this wireframe to show the TDF homepage, wiki, and other second-tier pages for the site.

You can download the wireframe document here: http://www.solidoffice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/LibreOffice-Homepage-Wires.odg

Thanks,
Ben

Benjamin Horst
[hidden email]
646-464-2314 (Eastern)
www.solidoffice.com


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epix epix
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Re: Website and wiki design

Hi Per, Benjamin, *

Am 12.10.2010 04:57, schrieb Benjamin Horst:
>> Per Eriksson skrev 2010-10-11 17:03:
>> Here are some initial sketches following my ideas, which will create navigational possibillities for most groups I think. The links might have to be alittle adjusted, but the general idea is to give the users ways to navigate both within the wiki itself (i.e find content quickly) as well as finding resources on the website.
>>
>> Here's an illustrating screenshot
>> http://erinet.se/tdfwiki.png
>
> I think this is a great start.

+ 10 thx

I'm sure we will have more categories and subcategories to add over
time, but this is the beginning. Will each one of those links point to a
"landing page" for the section of content, containing more navigation
and organization links? (I would suggest using "Homepage" or "Home"
instead of "First Page", but this is minor.) Over time I'd like to
divide the main part of the wiki homepage into smaller content blocks
and logically organize them too, when we get to that point.
>
> I've created a draft wireframe for the LibreOffice page of the TDF website. I envision the very top navigation shown in my wireframe being shared across the wiki and website, although I haven't created a wireframe for the wiki or any of the other pages of the TDF website yet. Also, a few spots are blank in the wireframe since I ran out of time today. :)
>
> I'd like to expand this wireframe to show the TDF homepage, wiki, and other second-tier pages for the site.
>
> You can download the wireframe document here: http://www.solidoffice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/LibreOffice-Homepage-Wires.odg

I get the idea but its not easy to imagine online, could you put it on a
webpage at time to view it online?

Regards
Erich

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Re: Website and wiki design

In reply to this post by Hirano Kazunari
Hi Khirano,

Am 12.10.2010 03:37, schrieb Kazunari Hirano:
> I have posted my proposal "wiki page for LibreOffice localization
> language teams" to [hidden email]

Would you mind posting it here too to avoid a cross list discussion?

Thanks a lot,

Erich


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Per Eriksson Per Eriksson
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Re: Website and wiki design

In reply to this post by Benjamin Horst

  Hi Benjamin,

Benjamin Horst skrev 2010-10-12 04:57:
> I think this is a great start. I'm sure we will have more categories and subcategories to add over time, but this is the beginning. Will each one of those links point to a "landing page" for the section of content, containing more navigation and organization links? (I would suggest using "Homepage" or "Home" instead of "First Page", but this is minor.) Over time I'd like to divide the main part of the wiki homepage into smaller content blocks and logically organize them too, when we get to that point.

Thanks. I have now changed the navigation with these changes. I think
that it got a lot better. Adding several subcategories, or maybe even a
new menu (like fedora has), might be a good idea. The idea is that all
menu items will land on a separate landing page, with the latest updates
etc. The Wiki Home also now reads Home ;-)

Maybe in a couple of weeks we can get a decent wiki first page as well,
where we really show that we are an active community? ;-)

Best

Per

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Hirano Kazunari Hirano Kazunari
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Re: Website and wiki design

In reply to this post by epix
Hi Eric,

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Erich Christian <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Khirano,
>
> Am 12.10.2010 03:37, schrieb Kazunari Hirano:
>> I have posted my proposal "wiki page for LibreOffice localization
>> language teams" to [hidden email]
>
> Would you mind posting it here too to avoid a cross list discussion?

Sure.
http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/l10n/msg00251.html
This is my post to [hidden email]

I have created the following wiki page so far.
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language_Teams

Thanks,
khirano

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Nino Novak Nino Novak
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Re: Website and wiki design

In reply to this post by Per Eriksson
On Tuesday 12 October 2010 15:19, Per Eriksson wrote:

> Thanks. I have now changed the navigation with these changes.

Would you mind switching the "Navigation" and "Wiki" sections?
And renaming "Navigation" to "Document Foundation"?

(just a suggestion)

Nino

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HenryGR HenryGR
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Re: Website and wiki design

In reply to this post by Hirano Kazunari
Hi Khiano and all

If this is not the right place for this, my apologies, pls. let me know.
Looking for Spanish language pages, found nothing and your comment is the one I
saw regarding languages.
Q. How can I create the Spanish (Spain, es-ES) pages?

Rgds,
Henry.

On 10/12/2010 03:28 PM, Kazunari Hirano wrote:

> Hi Eric,
>
> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Erich Christian <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Khirano,
>>
>> Am 12.10.2010 03:37, schrieb Kazunari Hirano:
>>> I have posted my proposal "wiki page for LibreOffice localization
>>> language teams" to [hidden email]
>> Would you mind posting it here too to avoid a cross list discussion?
> Sure.
> http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/l10n/msg00251.html
> This is my post to [hidden email]
>
> I have created the following wiki page so far.
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language_Teams
>
> Thanks,
> khirano
>

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Re: Website and wiki design

Hi Henry,

2010/10/12 HenryGR <[hidden email]>:
> Hi Khiano and all
>
> If this is not the right place for this, my apologies, pls. let me know.
> Looking for Spanish language pages, found nothing and your comment is the one I
> saw regarding languages.
> Q. How can I create the Spanish (Spain, es-ES) pages?

I'm not sure, if my way is the right one - but I was able to create a
new DE related website just by changing/editing the URL. The next
thing I saw was a message that this page does not exist and I was
asked, if I want to create this page.

HTH
Sigrid

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