Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

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Jan Holesovsky Jan Holesovsky
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Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

Hi,

Maybe you have noticed in the daily builds the new Startcenter that
LibreOffice 4.2 will come up with.  It is focused on improving the user
experience based on the assumption that the user very probably wants to
edit documents he/she has edited in the past.

But there is a problem - when they open LibreOffice for the first time,
there is no recent document, and the Startcenter looks just too empty;
see here:

http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~kendy/design-list/startcenter.png

It would be great to provide default graphics for the case there is no
recent document yet - can you please start the call for designs & come
up with something beautiful & helpful that we could use inside the huge
white area? :-)

It should be resizable, or able to survive resizing.  I believe we
should be able to get some text into it too, but hypertext might be
problematic I'm afraid.

Other than that - looking forward to the designs! :-)  It would be
awesome to have the designs for Alpha1, in case some programming is
necessary; so the deadline is 4th November:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/4.2#4.2.0_release

Thank you in advance,
Kendy


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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

I imagine we could just go with something simple
likehttps://github.com/gnome-design-team/gnome-mockups/raw/master/documents/documents-empty.pngor
perhaps even a simple label like the "No label" screen on
https://raw.github.com/gnome-design-team/gnome-mockups/master/nautilus/search-wires.png
.
(If we go for the former, we should probably use the same icon, given that
our new icon sets will be extensions of Gnome's.)
What do you think?

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Jan Holesovsky <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Maybe you have noticed in the daily builds the new Startcenter that
> LibreOffice 4.2 will come up with.  It is focused on improving the user
> experience based on the assumption that the user very probably wants to
> edit documents he/she has edited in the past.
>
> But there is a problem - when they open LibreOffice for the first time,
> there is no recent document, and the Startcenter looks just too empty;
> see here:
>
> http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~kendy/design-list/startcenter.png
>
> It would be great to provide default graphics for the case there is no
> recent document yet - can you please start the call for designs & come
> up with something beautiful & helpful that we could use inside the huge
> white area? :-)
>
> It should be resizable, or able to survive resizing.  I believe we
> should be able to get some text into it too, but hypertext might be
> problematic I'm afraid.
>
> Other than that - looking forward to the designs! :-)  It would be
> awesome to have the designs for Alpha1, in case some programming is
> necessary; so the deadline is 4th November:
>
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/4.2#4.2.0_release
>
> Thank you in advance,
> Kendy
>
>
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klaus-jürgen weghorn ol klaus-jürgen weghorn ol
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

Hi Mirek, Kendy,

Am 11.10.2013 18:54, schrieb Mirek M.:
> I imagine we could just go with something simple
> likehttps://github.com/gnome-design-team/gnome-mockups/raw/master/documents/documents-empty.pngor
> perhaps even a simple label  like the "No label" screen on
> https://raw.github.com/gnome-design-team/gnome-mockups/master/nautilus/search-wires.png
> .
> (If we go for the former, we should probably use the same icon, given that
> our new icon sets will be extensions of Gnome's.)
> What do you think?


Oh, when I noticed Kendy's mail I thought about something more like that:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Wallpaper-LibreOffice-2-1600px.png

A jpeg which can be changed by user like the personas so that even
companies can replace it with their logo or so.


Should we start an announce on Facebook and G+?

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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

Hi guys,

On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 10:23 AM, klaus-jürgen weghorn ol <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Mirek, Kendy,
>
> Am 11.10.2013 18:54, schrieb Mirek M.:
>
>  I imagine we could just go with something simple
>> likehttps://github.com/gnome-**design-team/gnome-mockups/raw/**
>> master/documents/documents-**empty.pngor<http://github.com/gnome-design-team/gnome-mockups/raw/master/documents/documents-empty.pngor>
>> perhaps even a simple label  like the "No label" screen on
>> https://raw.github.com/gnome-**design-team/gnome-mockups/**
>> master/nautilus/search-wires.**png<https://raw.github.com/gnome-design-team/gnome-mockups/master/nautilus/search-wires.png>
>> .
>> (If we go for the former, we should probably use the same icon, given that
>> our new icon sets will be extensions of Gnome's.)
>> What do you think?
>>
>
>
> Oh, when I noticed Kendy's mail I thought about something more like that:
> https://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/File:**Wallpaper-LibreOffice-2-**
> 1600px.png<https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Wallpaper-LibreOffice-2-1600px.png>
>
> A jpeg which can be changed by user like the personas so that even
> companies can replace it with their logo or so.


Given that this picture would appear only if no document has been opened, I
don't see the use of allowing customization of the upfront graphic. (That
would just encourage people NOT to open any documents -- that's not what we
want.) I'd also like to avoid fancy graphics, as it'd be a stark difference
to go from no recent files with a fancy graphic to a single thumbnail of a
recent file and the rest of the window blank and, as per our minimalism
principle, I'd like to keep our UI as simple as possible.

As I understand it, it's not a wallpaper Kendy's looking for, but rather an
indicator that there are no recent files to display.

Care to confirm, Kendy?

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klaus-jürgen weghorn ol klaus-jürgen weghorn ol
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

Hi Mirek, Kendy, *,
Am 13.10.2013 18:05, schrieb Mirek M.:

[...]

> Given that this picture would appear only if no document has been opened, I
> don't see the use of allowing customization of the upfront graphic. (That
> would just encourage people NOT to open any documents -- that's not what we
> want.) I'd also like to avoid fancy graphics, as it'd be a stark difference
> to go from no recent files with a fancy graphic to a single thumbnail of a
> recent file and the rest of the window blank and, as per our minimalism
> principle, I'd like to keep our UI as simple as possible.
>
> As I understand it, it's not a wallpaper Kendy's looking for, but rather an
> indicator that there are no recent files to display.

Ahh, ok, something more like that:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/1/12/Sc42-nrd-v1-1.png

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Mateusz Zasuwik Mateusz Zasuwik
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

Hey

Guys, are you serious? Currently Start Center for LO 4.2 is horrible! Is
here any guy from UX Team? My friend is professional designer and when I
showed him new LibreOffice, he ask "what is purpose of these small icons?"

Please reject this awful interface and do something more attractive and
intuitive!

I asked him for better mockup and he did this.

http://i.imgur.com/iJcSVxU.jpg

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Jonathan Aquilina Jonathan Aquilina
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

I have to say i really like it and its very similar to that of microsoft
office and what microsoft works used to be.


On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 11:01 PM, Mateusz Zasuwik <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hey
>
> Guys, are you serious? Currently Start Center for LO 4.2 is horrible! Is
> here any guy from UX Team? My friend is professional designer and when I
> showed him new LibreOffice, he ask "what is purpose of these small icons?"
>
> Please reject this awful interface and do something more attractive and
> intuitive!
>
> I asked him for better mockup and he did this.
>
> http://i.imgur.com/iJcSVxU.jpg
>
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>


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Mateusz Zasuwik Mateusz Zasuwik
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

2013/10/14 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos <[hidden email]>

> Relax, take it easy. The screenshot is OBVIOUSLY not the final look.
> Thanks for your mock-up, though: I like it :-)
>


Not so obvious for me. Actually I don't understand why the first version of
new Start Center is so unintuitive and ugly . There should be some
guidelines for developer programming interface.

If first alpha is coming with the beginning of month, will developers make
with it?

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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

In reply to this post by Mateusz Zasuwik
Mateusz Zasuwik wrote (14-10-13 23:01)
\
> Guys, are you serious? Currently Start Center for LO 4.2 is horrible! Is

It is when empty.
Therefore the request from Kendy for something else.

> here any guy from UX Team? My friend is professional designer and when I
> showed him new LibreOffice, he ask "what is purpose of these small icons?"

Yep...

> Please reject this awful interface and do something more attractive and
> intuitive!
>
> I asked him for better mockup and he did this.
>
> http://i.imgur.com/iJcSVxU.jpg

+1

And I think it's usefull too for a next step, the file menu!

Michael, something intersting?

Cheers,
Cor

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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

In reply to this post by Jan Holesovsky
Jan Holesovsky wrote (10-10-13 11:40)

> It would be great to provide default graphics for the case there is no
> recent document yet - can you please start the call for designs & come
> up with something beautiful & helpful that we could use inside the huge
> white area? :-)

Looks like a lovely opportunity to have some basic guide/first
steps/welcome linked from that place with some graphics/placeholders
(documentation front pages).
A great welcome for the user when starting for the first time!


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Daniel Hulse Daniel Hulse
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

In reply to this post by Mateusz Zasuwik
Your friend ought to help the design team out. That's a good design.

I'm pretty sure the current design has already been put together, though, so it might be better to modify the current one.

This would be my modifictation, based off of the original proposal by Mirek2. (Sorry if it's a bit rough. There of course would have to be a New formula and New database icon in the New row, also, and they could probably be sorted better.)

Anyway, it would keep it from looking totally empty, and would make it much more intuitive to actually create a new document. Another good thing would be to include the more information and help buttons like are there currently.
-Daniel
Jean-Baptiste Faure Jean-Baptiste Faure
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

In reply to this post by Mateusz Zasuwik
Hi all,

Le 14/10/2013 23:01, Mateusz Zasuwik a écrit :
> Hey
>
> Guys, are you serious? Currently Start Center for LO 4.2 is horrible! Is
> here any guy from UX Team? My friend is professional designer and when I
> showed him new LibreOffice, he ask "what is purpose of these small icons?"
>
> Please reject this awful interface and do something more attractive and
> intuitive!

I do not dislike the current global design of the StartCenter. I think
it will be usable if several technical and UX problems are solved:

1/ keyboard navigation through recent used files should be easier:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70449

2/ make the module icons more visible and understandable, give them a
bigger size:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70460

3/ repair the thumbnails generator in the master :
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70428

Best regards.
JBF

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Michael Meeks-5 Michael Meeks-5
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

In reply to this post by Cor Nouws

On Tue, 2013-10-15 at 00:33 +0200, Cor Nouws wrote:
> Mateusz Zasuwik wrote (14-10-13 23:01)
> > Guys, are you serious? Currently Start Center for LO 4.2 is horrible! Is

        I rather imagine this was done by a GSOC student based on a design
provided by the UX team :-) if the result is horrible, I'd want to know
how closely it matches the design provided. It is rather expensive
chopping and changing this stuff around continually - drawing some new
pixels takes a few minutes, re-writing, testing, validating,
translating, delivering the new code takes man weeks.

        Anyhow - this IIRC was Kendy's baby, I'd CC him on any discussion (if
you can maintain that CC) :-)

        ATB,

                Michael.

> It is when empty. Therefore the request from Kendy for something else.
>
> > here any guy from UX Team? My friend is professional designer and when I
> > showed him new LibreOffice, he ask "what is purpose of these small icons?"
>
> Yep...
>
> > Please reject this awful interface and do something more attractive and
> > intuitive!
> >
> > I asked him for better mockup and he did this.
> >
> > http://i.imgur.com/iJcSVxU.jpg
>
> +1
>
> And I think it's usefull too for a next step, the file menu!
>
> Michael, something intersting?


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Jan Holesovsky Jan Holesovsky
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

In reply to this post by mirek2
Hi Mirek,

Mirek M. píše v Ne 13. 10. 2013 v 18:05 +0200:

> > Oh, when I noticed Kendy's mail I thought about something more like that:
> > https://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/File:**Wallpaper-LibreOffice-2-**
> > 1600px.png<https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Wallpaper-LibreOffice-2-1600px.png>
> >
> > A jpeg which can be changed by user like the personas so that even
> > companies can replace it with their logo or so.
>
>
> Given that this picture would appear only if no document has been opened, I
> don't see the use of allowing customization of the upfront graphic. (That
> would just encourage people NOT to open any documents -- that's not what we
> want.) I'd also like to avoid fancy graphics, as it'd be a stark difference
> to go from no recent files with a fancy graphic to a single thumbnail of a
> recent file and the rest of the window blank and, as per our minimalism
> principle, I'd like to keep our UI as simple as possible.
>
> As I understand it, it's not a wallpaper Kendy's looking for, but rather an
> indicator that there are no recent files to display.
>
> Care to confirm, Kendy?

Terribly sorry - best to keep me CC'd for quick turnaround :-)

I was more looking for a wallpaper (as K-J suggests) or the 'welcome
information' (as Cor said) - I think it gives better first time
experience than a 'no recent documents found'...

Sorry for not being clear in my request :-(

Thank you in advance,
Kendy


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Jan Holesovsky Jan Holesovsky
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

In reply to this post by Mateusz Zasuwik
Hi Mateusz,

Mateusz Zasuwik píše v Po 14. 10. 2013 v 23:01 +0200:

> I asked him for better mockup and he did this.
>
> http://i.imgur.com/iJcSVxU.jpg

Beautiful - thanks for this.  This is of course easily possible to do,
if the Design team consensus is that it should look this way.  The best
is if you change it yourself in glade, and provide us with the
resulting .ui file - try

glade share/config/soffice.cfg/sfx/ui/startcenter.ui

do the changes, and restart LibreOffice.  You should immediately see
that.

The next time please omit the pejorative parts of your mail - we have
provided the snapshots & merged it to master early exactly in order to
be able to have feedback in time before the feature freeze, so that we
still have time to make it perfect for 4.2 :-)

Again - thanks for the mockup, I like it.  The only missing piece (and
that was what I was searching for in the first place) was what to show
in case there are no recent documents in the left part of your mockup -
can you please provide such a mockup too?

Thank you,
Kendy


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Pedro Pedro
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

Hi Kendy

Jan Holesovsky wrote
Mateusz Zasuwik píše v Po 14. 10. 2013 v 23:01 +0200:

> I asked him for better mockup and he did this.
>
> http://i.imgur.com/iJcSVxU.jpg
+1 on this design (the small icons are not user friendly)

Jan Holesovsky wrote
The only missing piece (and
that was what I was searching for in the first place) was what to show
in case there are no recent documents
I agree that it could be a nice banner with a welcome message in the lines of "Thank you for choosing LibreOffice. Please click on one of the document types on the right to create a new document" (assuming the design by Mateusz is accepted.

Best regards,
Pedro
Mateusz Zasuwik Mateusz Zasuwik
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

In reply to this post by Jan Holesovsky
>
> Again - thanks for the mockup, I like it.  The only missing piece (and
> that was what I was searching for in the first place) was what to show
> in case there are no recent documents in the left part of your mockup -
> can you please provide such a mockup too?


I asked him for new concept but now he is away so please be patient.

So what about with the easiest solution?

http://i.imgur.com/tt34Dg7.png

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Pedro Pedro
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
Mateusz Zasuwik wrote
So what about with the easiest solution?

http://i.imgur.com/tt34Dg7.png
I like it very much. Functional and sober.
Mateusz Zasuwik Mateusz Zasuwik
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

In reply to this post by Mateusz Zasuwik
2013/10/15 Mateusz Zasuwik <[hidden email]>

>  Again - thanks for the mockup, I like it.  The only missing piece (and
>> that was what I was searching for in the first place) was what to show
>> in case there are no recent documents in the left part of your mockup -
>> can you please provide such a mockup too?
>
>
> I asked him for new concept but now he is away so please be patient.
>


It is his work. What do you think?

http://i.imgur.com/KWpS7tu.jpg <http://i.imgur.com/RUfcMlw.jpg>

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Jan Holesovsky Jan Holesovsky
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Re: Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

Hi Mateusz,

Mateusz Zasuwik píše v Út 15. 10. 2013 v 13:28 +0200:

> >  Again - thanks for the mockup, I like it.  The only missing piece (and
> >> that was what I was searching for in the first place) was what to show
> >> in case there are no recent documents in the left part of your mockup -
> >> can you please provide such a mockup too?
> >
> >
> > I asked him for new concept but now he is away so please be patient.
>
> It is his work. What do you think?
>
> http://i.imgur.com/KWpS7tu.jpg <http://i.imgur.com/RUfcMlw.jpg>

Looks good :-) - just I'd myself would prefer some kind of welcome
message or welcome graphics (without text is preferred, as that makes
that easier from translation point of view) that was mentioned elsewhere
in the thread, over a sterile 'No recent documents'.  Do you think your
friend could try something in that lines too?

Thanks so much,
Kendy


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