What's in a name? former Native-Language projects and structure

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: What's in a name? former Native-Language projects and structure

Le 2012-11-05 13:28, Italo Vignoli a écrit :

> LibO was created to stop a lengthy discussion on the pronunciation
> problem of LibreOffice, which is now over. Unfortunately, although I
> like it, it has contributed to the dilution of our brand equity and we
> should now try to avoid to use it for new names, while I would not
> change old and established ones.
>
> So, I would not change LibOCon and LibOx, and any other name we already
> use, but I would try to use Libre as much as we can for new names, in
> order to strengthen the "libre" concept and association.
>

It seems to me that we are now going to abandon the recognized brand
name of "LibO" (well-known internally, and somewhat externally
recognized by the communities) and try to establish a more generic brand
"Libre" which is usually associated with a movement, and, we have
already established that there is a pronunciation problem with some of
our communities with the word "Libre".

The "LibO" brand is already tied into the "LibreOffice" project name,
why not expand its use? We have already reserved it in domain names,
project names such as LibOx, we are already using it as an unofficial
wiki page naming convention, and it could easily be tied in with a brand
mascot -- I am not sure that a "Libre" mascot is quite as sexy.

I don't believe that "LibO" has contributed to the dilution of our
brand, but reinforced it. It is recognizable and easily pronounced by
all, it is unique!!!, and, most of all, it is catchy. If any group
wanted to claim it as their own, we can already claim the word "LibO" as
our own by proof of usage with our project (prior use). Is this not what
we are looking for?

Cheers,

Marc


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italovignoli italovignoli
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Re: What's in a name? former Native-Language projects and structure

Il 06/11/2012 17:14, Marc Paré ha scritto:

> It seems to me that we are now going to abandon the recognized brand
> name of "LibO" (well-known internally, and somewhat externally
> recognized by the communities) and try to establish a more generic brand
> "Libre" which is usually associated with a movement, and, we have
> already established that there is a pronunciation problem with some of
> our communities with the word "Libre".

I do not want to abandon LibO, but I want to strengthen Libre, because
the name of the software is LibreOffice and there is a huge number of
people who use LO and call it OOo based on 10 years habits.

In addition, strengthening "libre" will reinforce the association
between our software and Liberty, as the two words share the same root
(and Liberty is a very well know word in English, which seems to be the
native pronunciation with the highest number of problems).

I am also using "libre" as a distinctive word for our project, by adding
the tagline *because "libre" is better than "open"* to every
presentation I make around the world. Of course, I am playing on both
words here, and I am sure that there will be people unhappy about this
tagline (but none of us is supposed to make all people happy).

Best, Italo

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Italo Vignoli
Director - The Document Foundation
Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: What's in a name? former Native-Language projects and structure

In reply to this post by Charles-H. Schulz
Hi Charles,


Charles-H. Schulz wrote (05-11-12 21:11)

> Quick note. It's not about each project's name but how do we call the
> Libreoffice's native-language projects in general.

Ah, so not how each native-language project should call itself :-)

If people that contacted you/board on the issue did not deliver a
ready-to-use-for-us solution, I would keep it at "LibreOffice
native-language project".
Simply because I have no better idea. Sorry., I mean: how else make
something comprehensive, compact and nice sounding from "support,
marketing, testing and localization"?


And the structure...? Isn't it enough if we try to listen, cooperate and
support each other?
For me that is more important then if group X from language/region Y is
a foundation, society, informal team, two people, er even a sub-entity
of TDF.

And as for the names they use, see below.

Cheers,
Cor

> Le 5 nov. 2012 20:23, "Cor Nouws" <[hidden email]> a écrit :

>> Would it be an idea to give the various groups the choice from 3, maybe 4
>> alternatives, which fits them best?
>>
>> e.g LibreOffice x / LibreOffice Project x / LibO x ?
>>
>> I think we won't have difficulty, as Sophie states, to recognise our own
>> groups/people. And the communication purpose of the name is mostly
>> local/regional.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>   - Cor
>>   - http://nl.libreoffice.org
>>   - www.librelex.org
>>
>>
>> --
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>> deleted
>>
>


--
  - Cor
  - http://nl.libreoffice.org
  - www.librelex.org


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Charles-H. Schulz Charles-H. Schulz
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Re: What's in a name? former Native-Language projects and structure

Hello Cor,

Le mercredi 07 novembre 2012 à 11:39 +0100, Cor Nouws a écrit :
> Hi Charles,
>
>
> Charles-H. Schulz wrote (05-11-12 21:11)
>
> > Quick note. It's not about each project's name but how do we call the
> > Libreoffice's native-language projects in general.
>
> Ah, so not how each native-language project should call itself :-)


Finally someone who understands :-)

>
> If people that contacted you/board on the issue did not deliver a
> ready-to-use-for-us solution, I would keep it at "LibreOffice
> native-language project".
> Simply because I have no better idea. Sorry., I mean: how else make
> something comprehensive, compact and nice sounding from "support,
> marketing, testing and localization"?

Indeed. One nuance though is that it would not be about keeping
native-language projects as a denomination but rather reintroducing the
term (officially , there are only "communities" and no native-language
project here). But I'm not the one to decide, it's up to you folks here.

>
>
> And the structure...? Isn't it enough if we try to listen, cooperate and
> support each other?
> For me that is more important then if group X from language/region Y is
> a foundation, society, informal team, two people, er even a sub-entity
> of TDF.


I think the same but it seems not everyone does, and people expect
structure...

best,
Charles.

>
> And as for the names they use, see below.
>
> Cheers,
> Cor
>
> > Le 5 nov. 2012 20:23, "Cor Nouws" <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> >> Would it be an idea to give the various groups the choice from 3, maybe 4
> >> alternatives, which fits them best?
> >>
> >> e.g LibreOffice x / LibreOffice Project x / LibO x ?
> >>
> >> I think we won't have difficulty, as Sophie states, to recognise our own
> >> groups/people. And the communication purpose of the name is mostly
> >> local/regional.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>   - Cor
> >>   - http://nl.libreoffice.org
> >>   - www.librelex.org
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to projects+help@global.**libreoffice.org<projects%[hidden email]>
> >> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-**
> >> unsubscribe/<http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/>
> >> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/**
> >> Netiquette <http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette>
> >> List archive: http://listarchives.**libreoffice.org/global/**projects/<http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/projects/>
> >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> >> deleted
> >>
> >
>
>


--
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Co-Founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
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sophi sophi
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Re: What's in a name? former Native-Language projects and structure

In reply to this post by italovignoli
Hi Italo, all,
On 07/11/2012 11:29, Italo Vignoli wrote:

> Il 06/11/2012 17:14, Marc Paré ha scritto:
>
>> It seems to me that we are now going to abandon the recognized brand
>> name of "LibO" (well-known internally, and somewhat externally
>> recognized by the communities) and try to establish a more generic brand
>> "Libre" which is usually associated with a movement, and, we have
>> already established that there is a pronunciation problem with some of
>> our communities with the word "Libre".
>
> I do not want to abandon LibO, but I want to strengthen Libre, because
> the name of the software is LibreOffice and there is a huge number of
> people who use LO and call it OOo based on 10 years habits.
>
> In addition, strengthening "libre" will reinforce the association
> between our software and Liberty, as the two words share the same root
> (and Liberty is a very well know word in English, which seems to be the
> native pronunciation with the highest number of problems).
>
> I am also using "libre" as a distinctive word for our project, by adding
> the tagline *because "libre" is better than "open"* to every
> presentation I make around the world. Of course, I am playing on both
> words here, and I am sure that there will be people unhappy about this
> tagline (but none of us is supposed to make all people happy).

But Italo, it's not about the brand here, I agree with you that we
should stress LibreOffice instead of any other name for our suite or the
international community.

We are talking here about the name of the language communities we
represent and we need a unique name that show the world who we are and
the work we are doing for this product and the overall community.
We need a name that is easy to use, easy to remember, with no ambiguity
about the languages vs countries.

Even if we keep the name LibreOffice Native-Language Project - in short
LONLP ;-), there is no issue at all, what I would like is that everybody
behind this name feel happy with it and feel part of it wherever we
speak about it. I think that this is what Charles was asking to them.

Kind regards
Sophie

--
Sophie Gautier <[hidden email]>
Tel:+33683901545
Membership & Certification Committee Member - Co-founder
The Document Foundation

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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: What's in a name? former Native-Language projects and structure

In reply to this post by Charles-H. Schulz
Charles-H. Schulz wrote (07-11-12 11:47)

> Finally someone who understands :-)

;-) thanks to your endurance in explaining

> Indeed. One nuance though is that it would not be about keeping
> native-language projects as a denomination but rather reintroducing the
> term (officially , there are only "communities" and no native-language
> project here).

Then I would say "LibreOffice native-language communities" /  "NLC"

> I think the same but it seems not everyone does, and people expect
> structure...

What is expected that a structure would deliver?
Money from TDF for activities? Acknowledgement that helps the NLC with
it's work (being locally accepted)? Invitations for events? ...?

Cheers,


--
  - Cor
  - http://nl.libreoffice.org
  - www.librelex.org


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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: What's in a name? former Native-Language projects and structure

In reply to this post by italovignoli
Hi Italo,

Le 2012-11-07 05:29, Italo Vignoli a écrit :

> Il 06/11/2012 17:14, Marc Paré ha scritto:
>
>> It seems to me that we are now going to abandon the recognized brand
>> name of "LibO" (well-known internally, and somewhat externally
>> recognized by the communities) and try to establish a more generic brand
>> "Libre" which is usually associated with a movement, and, we have
>> already established that there is a pronunciation problem with some of
>> our communities with the word "Libre".
>
> I do not want to abandon LibO, but I want to strengthen Libre, because
> the name of the software is LibreOffice and there is a huge number of
> people who use LO and call it OOo based on 10 years habits.
>
> In addition, strengthening "libre" will reinforce the association
> between our software and Liberty, as the two words share the same root
> (and Liberty is a very well know word in English, which seems to be the
> native pronunciation with the highest number of problems).
>
> I am also using "libre" as a distinctive word for our project, by adding
> the tagline *because "libre" is better than "open"* to every
> presentation I make around the world. Of course, I am playing on both
> words here, and I am sure that there will be people unhappy about this
> tagline (but none of us is supposed to make all people happy).
>
> Best, Italo
>

A big problem with using/pushing "Libre" is that there is no way that we
could ever claim copyright on it at all. At least with LibO, we already
hold some kind of rights; this is something of quite large importance in
name usage marketing.

Cheers,

Marc

--
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http://www.parEntreprise.com
parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: What's in a name? former Native-Language projects and structure

In reply to this post by sophi
Bonjour Sophie,

Le 2012-11-07 05:47, Sophie Gautier a écrit :

> But Italo, it's not about the brand here, I agree with you that we
> should stress LibreOffice instead of any other name for our suite or the
> international community.
>
> We are talking here about the name of the language communities we
> represent and we need a unique name that show the world who we are and
> the work we are doing for this product and the overall community.
> We need a name that is easy to use, easy to remember, with no ambiguity
> about the languages vs countries.
>
> Even if we keep the name LibreOffice Native-Language Project - in short
> LONLP ;-), there is no issue at all, what I would like is that everybody
> behind this name feel happy with it and feel part of it wherever we
> speak about it. I think that this is what Charles was asking to them.
>
> Kind regards
> Sophie
>

Just FYI, we had debated the use of LO and had agreed that the
pronunciation in EN "LO" came too close to the word "Low" which could
easily be used to belittle our office suite by competitors.

I would suggest that using "LO" would not be a good choice for this reason.

Cheers,

Marc


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