Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

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chimak111 chimak111
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Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

I installed LibreOffice Version 4.0.2.2 (Build ID: 4c82dcdd6efcd48b1d8bba66bfe1989deee49c3) direct from http://www.libreoffice.org/download/ on Lubuntu 13.04. While I have no issues with it [I]per se[/I], I think it has installed some svg files in /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/apps that are really horrible.

These svg files are several hundred kB in size and one, libreoffice4.0-calc.svg, is 1.3 MB. Opening that particular svg file in Firefox 22 or an image viewer takes a while. This is on a Core2Duo laptop with 4GB RAM.

I really don't see the need for such bloated svg files. When I inspected it with a text editor and with svg-edit.html (https://code.google.com/p/svg-edit/), it's clear to see that there's just so much garbage in there. Grrr...

Do these svg files have any purpose at all? I don't think it's fair to include such large svg files as part of the installation.
Luuk Luuk
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

On 20-05-2013 08:49, chimak111 wrote:

> I installed LibreOffice Version 4.0.2.2 (Build ID:
> 4c82dcdd6efcd48b1d8bba66bfe1989deee49c3) direct from
> http://www.libreoffice.org/download/ on Lubuntu 13.04. While I have no
> issues with it [I]per se[/I], I think it has installed some svg files in
> /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/apps that are really horrible.
>
> These svg files are several hundred kB in size and one,
> libreoffice4.0-calc.svg, is 1.3 MB. Opening that particular svg file in
> Firefox 22 or an image viewer takes a while. This is on a Core2Duo laptop
> with 4GB RAM.
>
> I really don't see the need for such bloated svg files. When I inspected it
> with a text editor and with svg-edit.html
> (https://code.google.com/p/svg-edit/), it's clear to see that there's just
> so much garbage in there. Grrr...
>
> Do these svg files have any purpose at all? I don't think it's fair to
> include such large svg files as part of the installation.
>
>

I dont understand the problem....

The files (libreoffice*.svg) take up only 98.89% space within that
directory....

;)




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Windows10 / LibreOffice  (latest?)
chimak111 chimak111
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

Luuk wrote
...
>
> Do these svg files have any purpose at all? I don't think it's fair to
> include such large svg files as part of the installation.
>
>

I dont understand the problem....

The files (libreoffice*.svg) take up only 98.89% space within that
directory....

;)
So you do understand!
Tom Tom
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

Hi :)
Perhaps the Design Team might be worth contacting about it?  They might like to have some input on redesigning the images.  It sounds like they didn't have much input in the first place tbh
Regards from
Tom :)  
chimak111 chimak111
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

Tom wrote
...
Perhaps the Design Team might be worth contacting about it?...
Hi, one of the reasons I posted here, in the user-to-user section, was to know if others see the same large (for .svg) files. If others don't, it's possible that those files "crept in" from some other source (which I very much doubt).
Anyway, would you happen to know the exact link where I should ask about these files?
chimak111 chimak111
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?


On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 8:57 PM, M Henri wrote:

>    .... It is only when we come to the scalable apps, which are saved as .svg files, that we see the sizes
> you mentioned ; under usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/apps, I find, just as you mentioned, that
> storing libreoffice-calc.svg requires some 1.3 MB. My question is - what would happen if the LO
> apps were simply removed from this folder
 ; would that influence use of the programme in any
> important way ?...

>    Henri  


Hi, and thank you for confirming what I saw regarding the scalable apps...

Now, I did not remove those files. Instead, I made smaller svg files, ~ 700 bytes each for base, calc, draw, impress, and writer files and ~ 450 bytes for the start-center-related files. I gave them the corresponding file names and replaced the bloated ones with the smaller ones. And, so far, I can still open LibreOffice just fine. So I still don't know what part those files play and why they're there.

If you're interested, here's my "replacement" code for the calc svg file :) Obviously, it doesn't look the same but it gets the point across ;)


<svg width="166" height="205" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg">
  <rect ry="9" rx="9" id="svg_21" height="194" width="156" y="5.5" x="5" stroke-width="5" stroke="#91E185" fill="#7f7f7f"/>
  <path fill="#91E185" stroke-width="5" d="m83,7l76,1l0,68l-76,-69z" id="svg_22" stroke-linejoin="round"/>
  <path stroke="#999" id="svg_24" d="m81,5.5l7,-0.5l73.5,67.5l0,7l-81,-74l0.5,0z" stroke-width="5" fill="#999"/>
  <text font-weight="bold" xml:space="preserve" text-anchor="middle" font-family="Monospace" font-size="134" id="svg_1" y="155" x="83" fill="#91E185">C</text>
</svg>


To view it as an svg file, paste the code into a text editor, and save the file with any prefix but the suffix must be .svg. You can then view the file with your default image viewer.
Tom Tom
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

Hi :)
I think the Design Team's mailing list address is
Design@Global.LibreOffice.Org
It might be good to forwards your last email to them.  I think they can help you set-up some space in the LibreOffice wiki for uploading test-files to.  

Also they would probably be glad to see new people join so if you or anyone else wants to join in then please  do! :)
Regards from
Tom :)  



chimak111 wrote
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 8:57 PM, M Henri wrote:

>    .... It is only when we come to the scalable apps, which are saved as .svg files, that we see the sizes
> you mentioned ; under usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/apps, I find, just as you mentioned, that
> storing libreoffice-calc.svg requires some 1.3 MB. My question is - what would happen if the LO
> apps were simply removed from this folder
 ; would that influence use of the programme in any
> important way ?...

>    Henri  


Hi, and thank you for confirming what I saw regarding the scalable apps...

Now, I did not remove those files. Instead, I made smaller svg files, ~ 700 bytes each for base, calc, draw, impress, and writer files and ~ 450 bytes for the start-center-related files. I gave them the corresponding file names and replaced the bloated ones with the smaller ones. And, so far, I can still open LibreOffice just fine. So I still don't know what part those files play and why they're there.

If you're interested, here's my "replacement" code for the calc svg file :) Obviously, it doesn't look the same but it gets the point across ;)


<svg width="166" height="205" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg">
  <rect ry="9" rx="9" id="svg_21" height="194" width="156" y="5.5" x="5" stroke-width="5" stroke="#91E185" fill="#7f7f7f"/>
  <path fill="#91E185" stroke-width="5" d="m83,7l76,1l0,68l-76,-69z" id="svg_22" stroke-linejoin="round"/>
  <path stroke="#999" id="svg_24" d="m81,5.5l7,-0.5l73.5,67.5l0,7l-81,-74l0.5,0z" stroke-width="5" fill="#999"/>
  <text font-weight="bold" xml:space="preserve" text-anchor="middle" font-family="Monospace" font-size="134" id="svg_1" y="155" x="83" fill="#91E185">C</text>
</svg>


To view it as an svg file, paste the code into a text editor, and save the file with any prefix but the suffix must be .svg. You can then view the file with your default image viewer.
chimak111 chimak111
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

Tom wrote
Hi :)
I think the Design Team's mailing list address is
Design@Global.LibreOffice.Org...
Tom, thanks for your response. I threw "libreoffice design team menu icons" into a Google search and came up with several useful links which I'm including below:
http://user-prompt.com/portfolio/libreoffice/
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design
http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/threads.html

Plus, there is:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Design-f1935996.html
which I'll try at the risk of being ignored. Designers are artists and artists aren't concerned with trivial things such as file sizes ;)
Tom Tom
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

Hi :)
Thanks :)
Without clicking on those links i suspect that the 2 wiki ones
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design
are the important ones.  The others are probably suggestions that may not have reached the Design Team yet (or they may have been rough drafts that did reach the wiki eventually)
Regards from
Tom :) 





>________________________________
> From: chimak111 <[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]
>Sent: Wednesday, 22 May 2013, 11:32
>Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?
>
>
>Tom wrote
>> Hi :)
>> I think the Design Team's mailing list address is
>> [hidden email]...
>
>Tom, thanks for your response. I threw "libreoffice design team menu icons"
>into a Google search and came up with several useful links which I'm
>including below:
>http://user-prompt.com/portfolio/libreoffice/
>https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding
>https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design
>http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/threads.html
>
>Plus, there is:
>http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Design-f1935996.html
>which I'll try at the risk of being ignored. Designers are artists and
>artists aren't concerned with trivial things such as file sizes ;)
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Why-such-large-svg-files-in-LibreOffice-Linux-tp4056944p4057287.html
>Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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>To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
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>
>
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mhenriday mhenriday
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

In reply to this post by chimak111
2013/5/22 chimak111 <[hidden email]>

>
> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 8:57 PM, M Henri wrote:
>
> >    .... It is only when we come to the scalable apps, which are saved as
> > .svg files, that we see the sizes
> > you mentioned ; under usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/apps, I find, just
> as
> > you mentioned, that
> > storing libreoffice-calc.svg requires some 1.3 MB. *My question is - what
> > would happen if the LO
> > apps were simply removed from this folder* ; would that influence use of
> > the programme in any
> > important way ?...
>
> >    Henri
>
>
> Hi, and thank you for confirming what I saw regarding the scalable apps...
>
> Now, I did not remove those files. Instead, I made smaller svg files, ~ 700
> *bytes* each for base, calc, draw, impress, and writer files and ~ 450
> bytes
> for the start-center-related files. I gave them the corresponding file
> names
> and replaced the bloated ones with the smaller ones. And, so far, I can
> still open LibreOffice just fine. So I still don't know what part those
> files play and why they're there.
>
> If you're interested, here's my "replacement" code for the calc svg file :)
> Obviously, it doesn't look the same but it gets the point across ;)
>
>
> <svg width="166" height="205" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg">
>   <rect ry="9" rx="9" id="svg_21" height="194" width="156" y="5.5" x="5"
> stroke-width="5" stroke="#91E185" fill="#7f7f7f"/>
>   <path fill="#91E185" stroke-width="5" d="m83,7l76,1l0,68l-76,-69z"
> id="svg_22" stroke-linejoin="round"/>
>   <path stroke="#999" id="svg_24"
> d="m81,5.5l7,-0.5l73.5,67.5l0,7l-81,-74l0.5,0z" stroke-width="5"
> fill="#999"/>
>   <text font-weight="bold" xml:space="preserve" text-anchor="middle"
> font-family="Monospace" font-size="134" id="svg_1" y="155" x="83"
> fill="#91E185">C</text>
> </svg>
>
>
> To view it as an svg file, paste the code into a text editor, and save the
> file with any prefix but the *suffix must be .svg*. You can then view the
> file with your default image viewer.
>

Hullo, Hitesh/chimak111 ! And thanks for posting your code for replacing
those bloatted .svg files ! The point is, precisely as you write above,
that we «still don't know what part those
files play and why they're there» -  or for that mattter, why they are so
large. Hope some knowledgeable user or developer can contribute to our
enlightenment !...

Henri

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chimak111 chimak111
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

M Henri Day wrote
...
Hullo, Hitesh/chimak111 ! And thanks for posting your code for replacing
those bloatted .svg files ! The point is, precisely as you write above,
that we «still don't know what part those
files play and why they're there» -  or for that mattter, why they are so
large. Hope some knowledgeable user or developer can contribute to our
enlightenment !...

Henri
...
Hi Henri, I've also posted here: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg05867.html
That mailing list seems more appropriate. Let us hope someone answers :)
mhenriday mhenriday
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

2013/5/22 chimak111 <[hidden email]>

> M Henri Day wrote
> > ...
> > Hullo, Hitesh/chimak111 ! And thanks for posting your code for replacing
> > those bloatted .svg files ! The point is, precisely as you write above,
> > that we «still don't know what part those
> > files play and why they're there» -  or for that mattter, why they are so
> > large. Hope some knowledgeable user or developer can contribute to our
> > enlightenment !...
> >
> > Henri
> > ...
>
> Hi Henri, I've also posted here:
> http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg05867.html
> That mailing list seems more appropriate. Let us hope someone answers :)
>

In that case, could you please post back to this thread, so that interested
parties can see the reply ?...

Henri

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Tom Tom
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

Hi :)
The linked-to thread seems to only have 1 post?  It links to a Nabble thread that also only has 1 post. 

I think there is a bit of confusion here.  Whichever system you use to make posts they all go into the same back-end.  Then whichever front-end people use they all get to see all those messages that are stored in the backend.  This means you can view the list and post to the list using Nabble as the front-end but people using GMane or normal emails also get to see all those posts (and are able to respond using their front-end). 

This whole back-end - front-end thing really confuses a lot of people.  It's one of the main blockers that prevents people from realising just how much easier it would be to use Base instead of Calc (or Access instead of Excel (if you don't mind the vendor lock-in)) for all sorts of things.  Ideally people would use Base instead of Excel, obviously, but that is 2 hurdles to cross.  Just lately i got into Ssh'ing and that uses the term "server", vs "client" to mean much the same thing
server ~ back-end
client ~ front-end
Of course it's not quite that simple but it helped me understand it. 

Regards from
Tom :) 





>________________________________
> From: M Henri Day <[hidden email]>
>To: chimak111 <[hidden email]>
>Cc: [hidden email]
>Sent: Wednesday, 22 May 2013, 17:09
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?
>
>
>2013/5/22 chimak111 <[hidden email]>
>
>> M Henri Day wrote
>> > ...
>> > Hullo, Hitesh/chimak111 ! And thanks for posting your code for replacing
>> > those bloated .svg files ! The point is, precisely as you write above,
>> > that we «still don't know what part those
>> > files play and why they're there» -  or for that mattter, why they are so
>> > large. Hope some knowledgeable user or developer can contribute to our
>> > enlightenment !...
>> >
>> > Henri
>> > ...
>>
>> Hi Henri, I've also posted here:
>> http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg05867.html
>> That mailing list seems more appropriate. Let us hope someone answers :)
>>
>
>In that case, could you please post back to this thread, so that interested
>parties can see the reply ?...
>
>Henri
>
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>
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Regina Henschel Regina Henschel
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

In reply to this post by chimak111
Hi,

chimak111 schrieb:
> I installed LibreOffice Version 4.0.2.2 (Build ID:
> 4c82dcdd6efcd48b1d8bba66bfe1989deee49c3) direct from
> http://www.libreoffice.org/download/ on Lubuntu 13.04. While I have no
> issues with it [I]per se[/I], I think it has installed some svg files in
> /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/apps that are really horrible.
>
> These svg files are several hundred kB in size and one,
> libreoffice4.0-calc.svg, is 1.3 MB.

Is that the exact filename? I do not find it with
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org

Is it possible, that this file is no original LibreOffice file, but has
been added by your distro?

Kind regards
Regina

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Peter Hillier-Brook Peter Hillier-Brook
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

On 22/05/13 19:13, Regina Henschel wrote:

> Hi,
>
> chimak111 schrieb:
>> I installed LibreOffice Version 4.0.2.2 (Build ID:
>> 4c82dcdd6efcd48b1d8bba66bfe1989deee49c3) direct from
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/download/ on Lubuntu 13.04. While I have no
>> issues with it [I]per se[/I], I think it has installed some svg files in
>> /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/apps that are really horrible.
>>
>> These svg files are several hundred kB in size and one,
>> libreoffice4.0-calc.svg, is 1.3 MB.
>
> Is that the exact filename? I do not find it with
> http://opengrok.libreoffice.org
>
> Is it possible, that this file is no original LibreOffice file, but has
> been added by your distro?

Hello Regina,

I confirm that the file in question is present with a "vanilla"
installation of 4.0.3. I never rely on modified versions from my
distribution, but always install the stock version from LibreOffice.org

Peter HB

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chimak111 chimak111
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

In reply to this post by mhenriday
M Henri Day wrote
In that case, could you please post back to this thread, so that interested
parties can see the reply ?...

Henri
Hi, I got an answer from Christian Lohmaier in that other thread. His reply is here:
http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg05868.html
You should be able to access that link from your browser without any problem. But just to be safe, I will forward his answer to you :)
V Stuart Foote V Stuart Foote
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Re: Why such large svg files in LibreOffice (Linux)?

chimak111 wrote
M Henri Day wrote
In that case, could you please post back to this thread, so that interested
parties can see the reply ?...

Henri
Hi, I got an answer from Christian Lohmaier in that other thread. His reply is here:
http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg05868.html
You should be able to access that link from your browser without any problem. But just to be safe, I will forward his answer to you :)
Actually,  both threads are available for review in full at Nabble.

This from the Users mail list at-- http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Why-such-large-svg-files-in-LibreOffice-Linux-tp4056944.html

And the other response from the Design mail lists at-- http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Size-of-LibreOffice-svg-files-tp4057288.html

The Document Foundation maintains the Nabble archive because it is very efficient in keeping the mail lists organized and accessible to all interested users.  It has a fairly robust search capability. And, the Nabble service also brokers subscription to the respective lists.

Non-subscribers CAN post onto any of the Nabble mail list archives--but message will be held for moderation when posting to a non-subscribed list.

Poke through Nabble, it is a useful resource.

Stuart