[Wiki]Two new pages

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RGB.ES RGB.ES
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[Wiki]Two new pages

Hello all, I just added two new pages to the wiki with their corresponding Spanish translation
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UserProfile
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel
A late question, I know... sorry... but: are those pages ok on their actual paths or they need to be moved?
I was convinced that the wiki was organized more with tags (even if I did not find the predefined tags appropriate) than with paths, but someone on the general mailing list has made me doubt...
Most pages I can see on the wiki are on the same path... but not all (like http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Web_Sites_services) which is the "rule" for page location?
Cheers
Ricardo
Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: [Wiki]Two new pages

On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 9:25 AM, RGB.ES <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hello all, I just added two new pages to the wiki with their corresponding
> Spanish translation
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UserProfile
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel
> A late question, I know... sorry... but: are those pages ok on their actual
> paths or they need to be moved?
> I was convinced that the wiki was organized more with tags (even if I did
> not find the predefined tags appropriate) than with paths, but someone on
> the general mailing list has made me doubt...
> Most pages I can see on the wiki are on the same path... but not all (like
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Web_Sites_services) which is the
> "rule" for page location?
> Cheers
> Ricardo

Hi Ricardo,
Might I suggest that these articles are 'end user support' and not
community or development pages.
I think that a more appropriate location for these wiki pages would be
on the soon to be created wiki.libreoffice.org rather than The
Document Foundation wiki.
Remember that the TDF wiki is not for LibreOffice information or
support, it is for community building and development.

You will find discussions about the LibreOffice (Not TDF) wiki
throughout the mailing list history. I am not sure who is leading this
project, but once it is created then I am sure that we will have much
discussion about the URL structure.

I would suggest we unpublish these pages from the TDF wiki. They are
useful pages, but IMHO the TDF wiki should not be confused with the
end user support.
This also clearly demonstrates the need for a LibreOffice wiki sooner
rather than later. The development page for the LibreOffice wiki is
here.
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/LibreOfficeWiki

Could I suggest that we create a place on the TDF wiki for these pages
to reside until the LibO wiki has been created. I was thinking:
Website/LibreOfficeWiki/Proposed/*

Thanks,
Michael Wheatland

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RGB.ES RGB.ES
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Re: [Wiki]Two new pages

Thanks! I'm looking forward for the new wiki. I think a lot of content will need to be moved there ;)
bedipp bedipp
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Re: [Wiki]Two new pages

Hi Ricardo, Michael, all,

as I have some comments on Michael's posting too, I inserted his reply
in your's..

RGB.ES schrieb:
 > Michael Wheatland wrote:
>> Hi Ricardo,
>> Might I suggest that these articles are 'end user support' and not
>> community or development pages.

Sorry, Michael, but I think they are very good examples of documentation.

>> I think that a more appropriate location for these wiki pages would be
>> on the soon to be created wiki.libreoffice.org rather than The
>> Document Foundation wiki.

As we don't have a wiki.libreoffice.org at the moment, all the LibO
teams work on the TDF wiki. Your contribution there is highly appreciated.

>> Remember that the TDF wiki is not for LibreOffice information or
>> support, it is for community building and development.

This is not true for the wiki, but only for the TDF website.
>>
>> You will find discussions about the LibreOffice (Not TDF) wiki
>> throughout the mailing list history. I am not sure who is leading this
>> project, but once it is created then I am sure that we will have much
>> discussion about the URL structure.

I can't remember to have read any mail about creating another wiki.
Perhaps this might become true when the Drupal site will be able to
replace the present structure, but this doesn't need to be discussed now.

About URL you already got the right reply on the TDF-discuss list:
Categories are the way to go:
<http://go.mail-archive.com/be8yWZzj8mKj7HRrcxx30XzgBOs=>

So your pages have the right names :-)

As Sophie suggested in the thread on the TDF list
(<http://go.mail-archive.com/XKKWudPkoZ_suzEMmaDlaGeHh7U=>) I created
the "Documentation" category and added your wiki pages there, so they
can be accessed quite easily.

I don't know if you already posted about your work on the documentation
mailing list - if not, I'd suggest you to subscribe there too.

Some more comments to Michael:
>>
>> I would suggest we unpublish these pages from the TDF wiki. They are
>> useful pages, but IMHO the TDF wiki should not be confused with the
>> end user support.

As stated above, my personal impression of the discussions here and in
the SC is different. While the websites aim at different goals, the wiki
will stay a common tool for all the LibO teams.

So please leave these pages where they are.

>> This also clearly demonstrates the need for a LibreOffice wiki sooner
>> rather than later. The development page for the LibreOffice wiki is
>> here.
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/LibreOfficeWiki

Please modify the page you just created yesterday at the same time you
wrote your reply to Ricardo in a way that
- either shows that this is your personal opinion about a possible structure
- or links to the existing documentation area in the wiki
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation

>>
>> Could I suggest that we create a place on the TDF wiki for these pages
>> to reside until the LibO wiki has been created. I was thinking:
>> Website/LibreOfficeWiki/Proposed/*

As the proper place for such work is the documentation category, such a
new place is not necessary.
>
> Thanks! I'm looking forward for the new wiki. I think a lot of content will
> need to be moved there ;)

If we'll have such a wiki, there will be quite a lot of content to be
moved.

But this will probably be able to be managed by a bot depending on the
categories or other tags that might be specified some day...

Best regards

Bernhard



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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: [Wiki]Two new pages

On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Bernhard Dippold
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Might I suggest that these articles are 'end user support' and not
>>> community or development pages.
>
> Sorry, Michael, but I think they are very good examples of documentation.

I think they are very good examples of wiki tutorials also. The
content is high quality, but I am not sure which documentation
book/chapter this would be incorporated into.
The point I was making was this type of content is best suited for the
wiki.libreoffice.org when it is setup.

> About URL you already got the right reply on the TDF-discuss list:
> Categories are the way to go:
> <http://go.mail-archive.com/be8yWZzj8mKj7HRrcxx30XzgBOs=>
>
> So your pages have the right names :-)

I missed this conversation on the discuss list. If this is the case
then a fair amount of work must go into flattening the structure of
the existing content.
Could we have clarification/discussion regarding this on the website
mailing list to ensure everyone is on the same page and the decision
is made by the team responsible for the infrastructure.

> Some more comments to Michael:
>>>
>>> I would suggest we unpublish these pages from the TDF wiki. They are
>>> useful pages, but IMHO the TDF wiki should not be confused with the
>>> end user support.
>
> As stated above, my personal impression of the discussions here and in the
> SC is different. While the websites aim at different goals, the wiki will
> stay a common tool for all the LibO teams.
>
> So please leave these pages where they are.

Will do, but the discussion regarding the TDF wiki url structure needs
to be had here to clarify.

>>> This also clearly demonstrates the need for a LibreOffice wiki sooner
>>> rather than later. The development page for the LibreOffice wiki is
>>> here.
>>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/LibreOfficeWiki
>
> Please modify the page you just created yesterday at the same time you wrote
> your reply to Ricardo in a way that
> - either shows that this is your personal opinion about a possible structure
> - or links to the existing documentation area in the wiki
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation

The page I created does not have any statements regarding structure or
content, I simply created a place for the information to be placed
when the decisions are made.
If we decide to use categories only after the discussion then this
page will reflect that decision and the 'proposed pages' heading is
moot.

>>> Could I suggest that we create a place on the TDF wiki for these pages
>>> to reside until the LibO wiki has been created. I was thinking:
>>> Website/LibreOfficeWiki/Proposed/*
>
> As the proper place for such work is the documentation category, such a new
> place is not necessary.

I was simply trying to ensure we maintain the 'sub-page' structure we
currently have on the TDF Wiki.
I will create a new thread on the mailing list to discuss the way
forward with this as clearly both the current approach and the flat
approach are not compatible.

Thanks for the feedback,
Michael Wheatland

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Stefan Weigel Stefan Weigel
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Re: [Wiki]Two new pages

In reply to this post by bedipp
Servus Bernhard,

Am 27.12.2010 02:49, schrieb Bernhard Dippold:


> I can't remember to have read any mail about creating another wiki.

http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/msg01570.html

<quote>
there will be actually two wikis: one for TDF, one for LibO
</quote>

The LibO wiki will have separate subdomains for each language, which
means a completely different concept and structure to what we have now.

However, this will be sometime in the future. Until then, IMO we
should use the one and only wiki http://wiki.documentfoundation.org,
as we always did, for any purpose we need a wiki for.

Stefan

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RGB.ES RGB.ES
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Re: [Wiki]Two new pages

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
Wheatbix wrote
I think that a more appropriate location for these wiki pages would be
on the soon to be created wiki.libreoffice.org rather than The
Document Foundation wiki.
Remember that the TDF wiki is not for LibreOffice information or
support, it is for community building and development.
I was thinking about this yesterday, and IMO create a whole new wiki is not the best move: if you are worry by the fact TDF will in the future promote more projects, this could be easily solved by "meta-tags". For example, adding a [[Category:LibreOffice]] to the pages about LibO (and [[Category:other-project]] to the others) should be enough to maintain order.
But what I see as a real mistake is this:
Stefan Weigel wrote
The LibO wiki will have separate subdomains for each language, which
means a completely different concept and structure to what we have now.
I think the content on the different locales must be the same whenever possible, and separate the wiki on different language subdomains defeat the idea of "content coherence": IMO, the way in which TDF wiki is set up now is the only possibility for a healthy multilingual project because it easy the "interaction" between languages.
Just my 2¢
Stefan Weigel Stefan Weigel
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Multilingual Wiki (was: [libreoffice-website] Re: [Wiki]Two new pages)

Hi Ricardo,

Am 27.12.2010 14:18, schrieb RGB.ES:

> But what I see as a real mistake is this:
>
> Stefan Weigel wrote:
>>
>> The LibO wiki will have separate subdomains for each language, which
>> means a completely different concept and structure to what we have now.
>>
> I think the content on the different locales must be the same whenever
> possible, and separate the wiki on different language subdomains defeat the
> idea of "content coherence": IMO, the way in which TDF wiki is set up now is
> the only possibility for a healthy multilingual project because it easy the
> "interaction" between languages.
> Just my 2¢

I agree and disagree at the same time.

We have basically two things to handle:

   1. Content with global focus. Pages are set up in English and are
translated to different languages. For these pages multilingual
"content coherence" is important.

   2. Content with local focus. Pages are written in their local
language only and won´t be translated.

We do have some strong, independant working local communities with
their own and very special activities that do not concern other NL
groups or the rest of the world. For these local communities each, a
separate wiki could be helpful.

Till now, we tried to address both aspects by two concepts for the
multilingual wiki in parallel:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Multilingual_Wiki

We do have:
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/de
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/es
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/fr
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/it
 ... and so on
This is meant to keep multilingual content coherence.

as well as:
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/DE
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/DE/Team
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/DE/Veranstaltungen
 ...
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/FR
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/FR/Blabla
 ... and so on
This is meant to allow local communities to create their very own
pages in the wiki. As far as I understand, these pages are
candidates for moving to a separate subdomain for each language.

By the way: We do have pretty much the same dual concept with
Silverstripe CMS for the website. We do have a international main
site. In the main site pages are translated to the various
languages. At the same time we do have subsites in subdomains for
each language.

Stefan

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