Writer: Fake vs. Real Superscripts in advanced fonts

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Cuyahoga Falls Cuyahoga Falls
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Writer: Fake vs. Real Superscripts in advanced fonts

I have a question dealing with one of the advanced features of today's
fonts: superscripts.

Using LO, one can automatically get ordinal numbers using the
Autocorrect feature. Type 1st and the "st" is automatically converted to
a superscript. However, the superscript is an artificially created
superscript where the "st" is shrunken and raised. The stroke weight is
correspondingly reduced resulting in a superscript that looks
disproportionately light when compared to other letters.

Today's modern fonts have better technology. Many fonts have built in
superscript glyphs that are properly sized and weighted. LO can access
these features graphically through the "features" option in the Format >
Character dialog (or "Font" tab in paragraph or character style
dialogs). If I click on the "features" option, and select "superscript,"
LO will insert an additional code in the font name that will call the
properly designed glyphs. Thus, for example, "Sitka Text" becomes "Sitka
Text:sups" and the superscript inserted is properly sized and weighted.
I can get the same effect by typing the appropriate code in the font
name box rather than selecting from the graphical menu of optional
"features" in the character style dialog.

The typographic benefit is that, by selecting the advanced superscript
of the font, one gets a true superscript that is not just shrunken
letters with reduced stroke weight. The stroke weight remains consistent
with the weight of the normally sized font. As an OCD challenged font
freak, I prefer using the true superscripts rather than the artificially
produced shrunken superscripts, which brings me to my question.

As far as I can tell, LO's automatic insertion of ordinal superscripts
using the Autocorrect function always inserts artificially generated and
shrunken superscripts rather than the true properly proportioned
superscripts contained within advanced fonts. Is there a way of
directing the Autocorrect function to use proper superscripts if they
are available rather than always creating artificially shrunken ordinal
superscripts?

It's a bit of a pain to have to manually reformat each ordinal number to
use the proper superscript. Even if I use character styles, that is
still more labor intensive than simply typing "1st" and spacebar and
getting the desired effect. If I could direct the Autocorrect function
to select true superscripts rather than artificially generated
superscripts, that would be great.

For what it's worth, I'm using LO 6.3.4.2 on Windows 10.

Thanks.

Virgil


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mikey mikey
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Re: Writer: Fake vs. Real Superscripts in advanced fonts

What you're looking for is the autocorrect autoreplacements table.

Tools --> Autocorrect --> Autocorrect Options.

Turn off the fake ordinals on the Localized options tab.

Then you can add entries in the Replace tab for the values you want, like
1st -> 1ˢᵗ.

There may be a way to introduce a character style method with this table,
so that copy/paste won't produce weirdness like the ordinal glyphs might if
the pasted field doesn't have ordinals in the active font, but this is
where you'd do it.



On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 2:56 PM Cuyahoga Falls <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have a question dealing with one of the advanced features of today's
> fonts: superscripts.
>
> Using LO, one can automatically get ordinal numbers using the
> Autocorrect feature. Type 1st and the "st" is automatically converted to
> a superscript. However, the superscript is an artificially created
> superscript where the "st" is shrunken and raised. The stroke weight is
> correspondingly reduced resulting in a superscript that looks
> disproportionately light when compared to other letters.
>
> Today's modern fonts have better technology. Many fonts have built in
> superscript glyphs that are properly sized and weighted. LO can access
> these features graphically through the "features" option in the Format >
> Character dialog (or "Font" tab in paragraph or character style
> dialogs). If I click on the "features" option, and select "superscript,"
> LO will insert an additional code in the font name that will call the
> properly designed glyphs. Thus, for example, "Sitka Text" becomes "Sitka
> Text:sups" and the superscript inserted is properly sized and weighted.
> I can get the same effect by typing the appropriate code in the font
> name box rather than selecting from the graphical menu of optional
> "features" in the character style dialog.
>
> The typographic benefit is that, by selecting the advanced superscript
> of the font, one gets a true superscript that is not just shrunken
> letters with reduced stroke weight. The stroke weight remains consistent
> with the weight of the normally sized font. As an OCD challenged font
> freak, I prefer using the true superscripts rather than the artificially
> produced shrunken superscripts, which brings me to my question.
>
> As far as I can tell, LO's automatic insertion of ordinal superscripts
> using the Autocorrect function always inserts artificially generated and
> shrunken superscripts rather than the true properly proportioned
> superscripts contained within advanced fonts. Is there a way of
> directing the Autocorrect function to use proper superscripts if they
> are available rather than always creating artificially shrunken ordinal
> superscripts?
>
> It's a bit of a pain to have to manually reformat each ordinal number to
> use the proper superscript. Even if I use character styles, that is
> still more labor intensive than simply typing "1st" and spacebar and
> getting the desired effect. If I could direct the Autocorrect function
> to select true superscripts rather than artificially generated
> superscripts, that would be great.
>
> For what it's worth, I'm using LO 6.3.4.2 on Windows 10.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Virgil
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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Richard England Richard England
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Re: Writer: Fake vs. Real Superscripts in advanced fonts

"cuyfalls",

I may not have your discerning eye, but using LO v7.0.3.1 on a Fedora
v33 box, when I check the automatically converted superscript with one
that is created manually by selecting the ordinal abbreviation and
changing it to a superscript they look identical for me. I checked two
different fonts. My OCD may not be as intense as yours.  :-)

Could be a difference in LO releases or operation system fonts (?).

~~R
StGeorge  


On 12/6/20 1:56 PM, Michael H wrote:

> What you're looking for is the autocorrect autoreplacements table.
>
> Tools --> Autocorrect --> Autocorrect Options.
>
> Turn off the fake ordinals on the Localized options tab.
>
> Then you can add entries in the Replace tab for the values you want, like
> 1st -> 1ˢᵗ.
>
> There may be a way to introduce a character style method with this table,
> so that copy/paste won't produce weirdness like the ordinal glyphs might if
> the pasted field doesn't have ordinals in the active font, but this is
> where you'd do it.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 2:56 PM Cuyahoga Falls <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I have a question dealing with one of the advanced features of today's
>> fonts: superscripts.
>>
>> Using LO, one can automatically get ordinal numbers using the
>> Autocorrect feature. Type 1st and the "st" is automatically converted to
>> a superscript. However, the superscript is an artificially created
>> superscript where the "st" is shrunken and raised. The stroke weight is
>> correspondingly reduced resulting in a superscript that looks
>> disproportionately light when compared to other letters.
>>
>> Today's modern fonts have better technology. Many fonts have built in
>> superscript glyphs that are properly sized and weighted. LO can access
>> these features graphically through the "features" option in the Format >
>> Character dialog (or "Font" tab in paragraph or character style
>> dialogs). If I click on the "features" option, and select "superscript,"
>> LO will insert an additional code in the font name that will call the
>> properly designed glyphs. Thus, for example, "Sitka Text" becomes "Sitka
>> Text:sups" and the superscript inserted is properly sized and weighted.
>> I can get the same effect by typing the appropriate code in the font
>> name box rather than selecting from the graphical menu of optional
>> "features" in the character style dialog.
>>
>> The typographic benefit is that, by selecting the advanced superscript
>> of the font, one gets a true superscript that is not just shrunken
>> letters with reduced stroke weight. The stroke weight remains consistent
>> with the weight of the normally sized font. As an OCD challenged font
>> freak, I prefer using the true superscripts rather than the artificially
>> produced shrunken superscripts, which brings me to my question.
>>
>> As far as I can tell, LO's automatic insertion of ordinal superscripts
>> using the Autocorrect function always inserts artificially generated and
>> shrunken superscripts rather than the true properly proportioned
>> superscripts contained within advanced fonts. Is there a way of
>> directing the Autocorrect function to use proper superscripts if they
>> are available rather than always creating artificially shrunken ordinal
>> superscripts?
>>
>> It's a bit of a pain to have to manually reformat each ordinal number to
>> use the proper superscript. Even if I use character styles, that is
>> still more labor intensive than simply typing "1st" and spacebar and
>> getting the desired effect. If I could direct the Autocorrect function
>> to select true superscripts rather than artificially generated
>> superscripts, that would be great.
>>
>> For what it's worth, I'm using LO 6.3.4.2 on Windows 10.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Virgil
>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems?
>> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>> Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
>>

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Cuyahoga Falls Cuyahoga Falls
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Re: Writer: Fake vs. Real Superscripts in advanced fonts

In reply to this post by mikey
Michael,

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look at it from that angle. It's such an
obvious solution, I should have thought of it myself.

Virgil


On 12/6/2020 4:56 PM, Michael H wrote:

> What you're looking for is the autocorrect autoreplacements table.
>
> Tools --> Autocorrect --> Autocorrect Options.
>
> Turn off the fake ordinals on the Localized options tab.
>
> Then you can add entries in the Replace tab for the values you want,
> like 1st -> 1ˢᵗ.
>
> There may be a way to introduce a character style method with this
> table, so that copy/paste won't produce weirdness like the ordinal
> glyphs might if the pasted field doesn't have ordinals in the active
> font, but this is where you'd do it.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 2:56 PM Cuyahoga Falls <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     I have a question dealing with one of the advanced features of
>     today's
>     fonts: superscripts.
>
>     Using LO, one can automatically get ordinal numbers using the
>     Autocorrect feature. Type 1st and the "st" is automatically
>     converted to
>     a superscript. However, the superscript is an artificially created
>     superscript where the "st" is shrunken and raised. The stroke
>     weight is
>     correspondingly reduced resulting in a superscript that looks
>     disproportionately light when compared to other letters.
>
>     Today's modern fonts have better technology. Many fonts have built in
>     superscript glyphs that are properly sized and weighted. LO can
>     access
>     these features graphically through the "features" option in the
>     Format >
>     Character dialog (or "Font" tab in paragraph or character style
>     dialogs). If I click on the "features" option, and select
>     "superscript,"
>     LO will insert an additional code in the font name that will call the
>     properly designed glyphs. Thus, for example, "Sitka Text" becomes
>     "Sitka
>     Text:sups" and the superscript inserted is properly sized and
>     weighted.
>     I can get the same effect by typing the appropriate code in the font
>     name box rather than selecting from the graphical menu of optional
>     "features" in the character style dialog.
>
>     The typographic benefit is that, by selecting the advanced
>     superscript
>     of the font, one gets a true superscript that is not just shrunken
>     letters with reduced stroke weight. The stroke weight remains
>     consistent
>     with the weight of the normally sized font. As an OCD challenged font
>     freak, I prefer using the true superscripts rather than the
>     artificially
>     produced shrunken superscripts, which brings me to my question.
>
>     As far as I can tell, LO's automatic insertion of ordinal
>     superscripts
>     using the Autocorrect function always inserts artificially
>     generated and
>     shrunken superscripts rather than the true properly proportioned
>     superscripts contained within advanced fonts. Is there a way of
>     directing the Autocorrect function to use proper superscripts if they
>     are available rather than always creating artificially shrunken
>     ordinal
>     superscripts?
>
>     It's a bit of a pain to have to manually reformat each ordinal
>     number to
>     use the proper superscript. Even if I use character styles, that is
>     still more labor intensive than simply typing "1st" and spacebar and
>     getting the desired effect. If I could direct the Autocorrect
>     function
>     to select true superscripts rather than artificially generated
>     superscripts, that would be great.
>
>     For what it's worth, I'm using LO 6.3.4.2 on Windows 10.
>
>     Thanks.
>
>     Virgil
>
>
>     --
>     To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>     <mailto:users%[hidden email]>
>     Problems?
>     https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>     <https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/>
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>     <https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette>
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>     <https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/>
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Cuyahoga Falls Cuyahoga Falls
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Re: Writer: Fake vs. Real Superscripts in advanced fonts

In reply to this post by Richard England
On 12/6/2020 6:00 PM, Richard England wrote:

>
> "cuyfalls",
>
> I may not have your discerning eye, but using LO v7.0.3.1 on a Fedora
> v33 box, when I check the automatically converted superscript with one
> that is created manually by selecting the ordinal abbreviation and
> changing it to a superscript they look identical for me. I checked two
> different fonts. My OCD may not be as intense as yours.  :-)
>
> Could be a difference in LO releases or operation system fonts (?).
>
> ~~R
> StGeorge  
>
Richard

A lot depends on your OS and its available fonts. Not all fonts have
advanced features built in. I have found that Windows 10 seems to have
more fonts with the available features than my implementation of Puppy
Linux. On Windows, I can use Sitka Text, Palatino Linotype and Linux
Libertine G to achieve true and proper superscripts. I'm sure there are
others; I just haven't checked them all yet. On my Puppy Linux system,
it seems that only Linux Libertine G and Source Serif Pro have the
available features. Having never used Fedora, I have no idea what you
might have available to you. If you're at all interested in fonts, I
would highly recommend obtaining Linux Libertine G and its sans serif
companion Linux Biolinum G. They are available in the Ubuntu-based
repositories, so I assume they would be in whatever Fedora uses.

To see what advanced features are available on your particular machine
for a given font, from within LO, click on Format > Character > Font and
then click on the "Features" button directly below the font-size drop
down list. You will then see a dialog box that will show the available
features for that font. Not all features are available for all fonts, so
you'll have to scroll through each font and click "Features" to see
which ones are available.

Your results will also depend on how you "manually" create a
superscript. As with all things LO, there are multiple ways to skin the
cat and not all of them produce the desired results.

There are at least four different ways to obtain superscript ordinals.
The first three listed below will produce what I'm calling "fake"
shrunken superscripts with lighter stroke weight and condensed spacing.
Only the fourth will produce properly weighted and spaced superscripts.

*Option 1* (fake superscript) --  With the option to "format ordinal
numbers suffixes" selected in Tools > AutoCorrect Options > Localized
Options just type the number desired (1st, 2nd, etc.) and press spacebar
and the ordinal will automatically be converted to a "fake" superscript.

*Option 2* (fake superscript) -- With the AutoCorrect option
UNnselected, type the number desired. Then select the ordinal ("st,"
"nd," "th", etc.) and click on the superscript icon in the Formatting
Toolbar (assuming that icon appears in your particular toolbar as they
are customizable). This will also produce a "fake" superscript. This is
simply a manual way of achieving the same result that the AutoCorrect
option automatically obtains.

*Option 3* (fake superscript) -- Again with the AutoCorrect option
UNselected, type the number desired and select the ordinal. Then click
on Format > Character > Position > Superscript. This is just another way
of achieving the same results as found in Options 1 and 2, and will
produce the same "fake" superscript. However, with this option, you can
manually control how much LO shrinks the superscript and how much it
raises it above the surrounding text. At least, with this option, you
can reduce the adverse effects of LO's default font shrinking.

*Option 4* (true superscript) -- This option depends upon the font you
use. Many fonts will have access to true superscripts; others will not.
In Windows, for this test, you can use Palatino Linotype or Sitka Text.
In Linux, if you have it, try Source Serif Pro. For both OS's you can
use Linux Libertine G (http://www.numbertext.org/linux/). As with the
other options, type the desired ordinal number in the appropriate font
and select the ordinal to be raised to a superscript. Then click on
Format > Character > Font. Make sure your desired font is selected in
the drop down list of fonts. Then, click on the Features button
immediately below the font size drop down box. In this dialog, you'll
see a host of advanced features available for the font you've chosen,
and the features will be different for each font. With Sitka Text,
Palatino Linotype (Windows) and Source Serif Pro (Linux), you'll have an
option to select superscript. Click on that. You will then immediately
see the font name change to something like "Sitka Text:frac=1&sups".
Everything after the : consists of a code implementing an advanced
feature. The "frac=1" implements true fractions. (On my LO, this seems
to be a default setting). The "sups" implements true superscripts with
the "&" separating the codes. In addition to selecting features from the
dialog box, you can manually type in the codes once you get to know
them, and delete the codes you don't want. Once you select the advanced
features you want, click OK or press Enter and you will see your
beautifully formatted superscript, and even a non OCD impaired viewer
will see that its stroke weight is more even with the surrounding text.

This same dynamic can also be seen when setting text in small caps.
Normally LO (and other word processors) will just shrink a normal
capital down to create fake small caps. Their stroke weight is then
reduced and the letterspacing is condensed and the whole effect looks
horrible and amateurish. (It's a shame to see professionally typeset
books with small caps artificially generated this way.) You can create
true small caps through the Features dialog of the applicable font. Once
you do this, you'll never go back to the fake small caps.

It used to be that I had to use LaTeX to get these more advanced
results, but now I can achieve them with LO and a decent font. One of my
favorites is Linux Libertine G, which is full of features and well
paired to the companion sans-serif Linux Biolinum G. As a set, they
provide everything one needs to achieve really good typographic results.
Check out http://www.numbertext.org/linux/fontfeatures.pdf for a list of
the available typographic features in these wonderful fonts. And,
despite its name, Linux Libertine G works on Windows.

Okay, I know I've written far more than anyone wants to read, but that's
my superscript story, and more than anything, demonstrates the extent of
my OCD font sickness.

Virgil


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