citrus

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
14 messages Options
Andrew Pullins Andrew Pullins
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

citrus

Hello all,

Does any one know what has happened to the guy designing the "Citrus UI."  I
have been trying to get a hold of him so we can collaborate on his UI
designs. I am really interested in making LibreOffice look good, and his
designs are great. It is something I would say that we need to be working
toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than bugs
getting fixed, what else is going on?

Cheers
Andrew

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: citrus

Hi Andrew!

Am Montag, den 05.09.2011, 20:16 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
> Hello all,
>
> Does any one know what has happened to the guy designing the "Citrus UI."  I
> have been trying to get a hold of him so we can collaborate on his UI
> designs. I am really interested in making LibreOffice look good, and his
> designs are great.

Yep, there are some terrific ideas - he was (and I hope: is) with us
since quite some time. He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel

> It is something I would say that we need to be working
> toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than bugs
> getting fixed, what else is going on?

It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no chance
to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons). Instead,
it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
Development, QA, ...

There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a position
for larger changes.

Cheers,
Christoh


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Andrew Pullins Andrew Pullins
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: citrus

>
> It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no chanceto
> completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons).


I know that this would be hard to do in one shot, and I like that he made up
some baby steps to get the citrus UI implemented.  I think that we need to
start on these baby steps. other wise the dev team will just keep adding
more and more features and fixing bugs till there face is blue, and at the
end of the day the software still looks like crap and no one will use it
because the UI is from 10 years ago. my bother loves open source I got him
to run ubuntu and he loves it, but hes used to M$ Office and hates the way
it looks and feels. don't get him wrong he is soporting us with LibreOffice
but he is getting tired of it.

Instead, it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> Development, QA, ...
>

like i said above, yes we need to go in baby steps. but are we walking, are
we taking that first step to a new UI. on his blog he talked about these
milestones http://clickortap.wordpress.com/2010/11/20/citrus-getting-there/.
I know that this can not be done in one blow. but we are on 3.4.3 I think
that by 4.1 we could have this done. well may be I dont know how LibreOffice
does its releases, or how long it takes to go from 3.3.3 to 3.4.3.


> There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
> it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
> has been mentioned some days ago).


but are they getting dealt with. a moth or two ago we where talking about
the aperence menu and how it should be changed. is that getting worked on or
at least on the todo list.

I am an artist who wants to program, I am attending DeVry wright now and
just started my first programming class. as soon as I can help im pumping to
the dev team to help out there. and when I can I will try to lead the dev
team to the UI and start getting them to work on this.

I hope I did not sound mean or harsh. I just feel so out of the loop with
all this, I don't know if any thing is getting done. hopefully the LO con
will shed some light on this. I hope that they video it so that we who are
not going to be there can see whats going on.  I would hate to read all that
is going on there.

Cheers
Andrew


On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 4:19 PM, Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hi Andrew!
>
> Am Montag, den 05.09.2011, 20:16 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Does any one know what has happened to the guy designing the "Citrus UI."
>  I
> > have been trying to get a hold of him so we can collaborate on his UI
> > designs. I am really interested in making LibreOffice look good, and his
> > designs are great.
>
> Yep, there are some terrific ideas - he was (and I hope: is) with us
> since quite some time. He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
> when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
> Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
>
> > It is something I would say that we need to be working
> > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than bugs
> > getting fixed, what else is going on?
>
> It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no chance
> to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons). Instead,
> it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> Development, QA, ...
>
> There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
> it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
> has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a position
> for larger changes.
>
> Cheers,
> Christoh
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

How development develops ... (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] citrus)

Hi Andrew!

I lack a bit time, so I'll try to comment what's most important to me at
the moment. Okay?

Am Mittwoch, den 07.09.2011, 13:20 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:

> >
> > It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no chanceto
> > completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons).
>
>
> I know that this would be hard to do in one shot, and I like that he made up
> some baby steps to get the citrus UI implemented.  I think that we need to
> start on these baby steps. other wise the dev team will just keep adding
> more and more features and fixing bugs till there face is blue, and at the
> end of the day the software still looks like crap and no one will use it
> because the UI is from 10 years ago.

Oh, its 20 years already ;-)

[...]

> Instead, it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> > Development, QA, ...
[...]

> > There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
> > it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
> > has been mentioned some days ago).
>
> but are they getting dealt with. a moth or two ago we where talking about
> the aperence menu and how it should be changed. is that getting worked on or
> at least on the todo list.

Really? Does anybody specified the Zoom slider or the appearance menu
behavior? How many people assisted developers to define, document and
test the issues in the bug tracker? Or any other change?

I think there is a big misunderstanding, since the community isn't yet
that close together as I would like it to be. For example, there are
many new developers who try to deal with the code - which is incredibly
difficult. Many of the features / changes are not (reasonable) perfect
yet ... there is no (simple) way to request improvements.

Maybe this presentation sheds some light on how developers currently
address changes:
http://www.youtube.com/user/fosdemtalks?gl=DE#p/u/8/-Olx3EvJMl0

I don't share all the views. But, to me, small improvements are a chance
to work together with the individual developers and to make them aware
of user needs. That also means that UI changes (step by step) are
implemented.

[...]
> I hope I did not sound mean or harsh. I just feel so out of the loop with
> all this, I don't know if any thing is getting done. hopefully the LO con
> will shed some light on this. I hope that they video it so that we who are
> not going to be there can see whats going on.  I would hate to read all that
> is going on there.

Mmh, its not that harsh but somehow understandable - and out of the loop
is very bad, so please ask questions. Everybody will benefit, I bet.

But if you are a designer with some understanding for development needs:
What can you do now to improve LibreOffice? There are so many topics
that could be addressed ... it is just picking them. Some of them are
more or less related to what Citrus addressed. Some are related to
artwork / branding improvements. Others are related to watch the
developers and their commit messages. Or to asking individual developers
to assist them - that brings you much closer than viewing conference
videos. :-)

So how can I help here?

Cheers,
Christoph



> On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 4:19 PM, Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
> > Hi Andrew!
> >
> > Am Montag, den 05.09.2011, 20:16 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > Does any one know what has happened to the guy designing the "Citrus UI."
> >  I
> > > have been trying to get a hold of him so we can collaborate on his UI
> > > designs. I am really interested in making LibreOffice look good, and his
> > > designs are great.
> >
> > Yep, there are some terrific ideas - he was (and I hope: is) with us
> > since quite some time. He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
> > when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
> > Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
> >
> > > It is something I would say that we need to be working
> > > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than bugs
> > > getting fixed, what else is going on?
> >
> > It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no chance
> > to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons). Instead,
> > it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> > Development, QA, ...
> >
> > There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
> > it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
> > has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a position
> > for larger changes.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Christoh
> >
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
>



--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Andrew Pullins Andrew Pullins
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: How development develops ... (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] citrus)

Hello


> Really? Does anybody specified the Zoom slider or the appearance menu
> behavior? How many people assisted developers to define, document and
> test the issues in the bug tracker? Or any other change?


I was just going to submit the bug for it was my complaint.


> I think there is a big misunderstanding, since the community isn't yet
> that close together as I would like it to be. For example, there are
> many new developers who try to deal with the code - which is incredibly
> difficult. Many of the features / changes are not (reasonable) perfect
> yet ... there is no (simple) way to request improvements.
>

I was mearly asking whether the develpers are working on this at all.

Maybe this presentation sheds some light on how developers currently
> address changes:
> http://www.youtube.com/user/fosdemtalks?gl=DE#p/u/8/-Olx3EvJMl0


iv seen this video, it was good. its proboble because of this video that I
am apart of this team.


> But, to me, small improvements are a chance
> to work together with the individual developers and to make them aware
> of user needs. That also means that UI changes (step by step) are
> implemented.
>

I know that this is all going to have to change little by little. this is
not going to change over night. is there a millstone plan put in place so
that we can even start on changing the UI.


> But if you are a designer with some understanding for development needs:
> What can you do now to improve LibreOffice?


I am not a developer, at this point in time I can do nothing help. aside
from bug reports. which I will do but I wanted to ask you guys what was
going on before I just start making bug reports.


>  There are so many topics that could be addressed ... it is just picking
> them. Some of them are more or less related to what Citrus addressed. Some
> are related to artwork / branding improvements.


I get this, I love what you guys have done here. I have been helping where I
can with all the artwork / branding stuff. I just want to get this to the
point where we can start doing some major improvments to the UI. because
right now its freaking ugly.


On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hi Andrew!
>
> I lack a bit time, so I'll try to comment what's most important to me at
> the moment. Okay?
>
> Am Mittwoch, den 07.09.2011, 13:20 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
> > >
> > > It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no
> chanceto
> > > completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons).
> >
> >
> > I know that this would be hard to do in one shot, and I like that he made
> up
> > some baby steps to get the citrus UI implemented.  I think that we need
> to
> > start on these baby steps. other wise the dev team will just keep adding
> > more and more features and fixing bugs till there face is blue, and at
> the
> > end of the day the software still looks like crap and no one will use it
> > because the UI is from 10 years ago.
>
> Oh, its 20 years already ;-)
>
> [...]
>
> > Instead, it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> > > Development, QA, ...
> [...]
>
> > > There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
> > > it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
> > > has been mentioned some days ago).
> >
> > but are they getting dealt with. a moth or two ago we where talking about
> > the aperence menu and how it should be changed. is that getting worked on
> or
> > at least on the todo list.
>
> Really? Does anybody specified the Zoom slider or the appearance menu
> behavior? How many people assisted developers to define, document and
> test the issues in the bug tracker? Or any other change?
>
> I think there is a big misunderstanding, since the community isn't yet
> that close together as I would like it to be. For example, there are
> many new developers who try to deal with the code - which is incredibly
> difficult. Many of the features / changes are not (reasonable) perfect
> yet ... there is no (simple) way to request improvements.
>
> Maybe this presentation sheds some light on how developers currently
> address changes:
> http://www.youtube.com/user/fosdemtalks?gl=DE#p/u/8/-Olx3EvJMl0
>
> I don't share all the views. But, to me, small improvements are a chance
> to work together with the individual developers and to make them aware
> of user needs. That also means that UI changes (step by step) are
> implemented.
>
> [...]
> > I hope I did not sound mean or harsh. I just feel so out of the loop with
> > all this, I don't know if any thing is getting done. hopefully the LO con
> > will shed some light on this. I hope that they video it so that we who
> are
> > not going to be there can see whats going on.  I would hate to read all
> that
> > is going on there.
>
> Mmh, its not that harsh but somehow understandable - and out of the loop
> is very bad, so please ask questions. Everybody will benefit, I bet.
>
> But if you are a designer with some understanding for development needs:
> What can you do now to improve LibreOffice? There are so many topics
> that could be addressed ... it is just picking them. Some of them are
> more or less related to what Citrus addressed. Some are related to
> artwork / branding improvements. Others are related to watch the
> developers and their commit messages. Or to asking individual developers
> to assist them - that brings you much closer than viewing conference
> videos. :-)
>
> So how can I help here?
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
>
>
> > On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 4:19 PM, Christoph Noack <[hidden email]
> >wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Andrew!
> > >
> > > Am Montag, den 05.09.2011, 20:16 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
> > > > Hello all,
> > > >
> > > > Does any one know what has happened to the guy designing the "Citrus
> UI."
> > >  I
> > > > have been trying to get a hold of him so we can collaborate on his UI
> > > > designs. I am really interested in making LibreOffice look good, and
> his
> > > > designs are great.
> > >
> > > Yep, there are some terrific ideas - he was (and I hope: is) with us
> > > since quite some time. He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
> > > when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
> > > Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
> > > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
> > >
> > > > It is something I would say that we need to be working
> > > > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than
> bugs
> > > > getting fixed, what else is going on?
> > >
> > > It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no
> chance
> > > to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons). Instead,
> > > it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> > > Development, QA, ...
> > >
> > > There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
> > > it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
> > > has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a position
> > > for larger changes.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Christoh
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> > > Problems?
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > > deleted
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

mirek2 mirek2
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: citrus

In reply to this post by Christoph Noack
Hi Andrew, Christoph,

2011/9/6 Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>

> Hi Andrew!
>
> Am Montag, den 05.09.2011, 20:16 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Does any one know what has happened to the guy designing the "Citrus UI."
>  I
> > have been trying to get a hold of him so we can collaborate on his UI
> > designs. I am really interested in making LibreOffice look good, and his
> > designs are great.
>
> Yep, there are some terrific ideas - he was (and I hope: is) with us
> since quite some time.


Yes, I'm still here, though I don't have the time to read through all the
e-mails. Right now, I also don't have an internet connection at home -- I
should have it soon, but right now I have to resort to visiting the public
library for internet.


> He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
> when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
> Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
>
> That's a very old proposal -- I definitely wouldn't stand by it now. At the
time, I was smitten with Microsoft's ribbon, and, instead of looking at what
in the ribbon is an improvement over the old way of working (like better
organization or contextuality) and what was a detriment (e.g. too much space
taken up, having to click tabs to get to functionality that should be
available up front, ...), I just flatly wanted OOo to emulate the ribbon
(knee-jerk reaction). I was also unconcerned with ease of use and an
uninterrupted workflow, instead giving importance to feature-richness (hence
the tabs, the "tattoed" scroll bar, etc.). And, looking back at the
proposal, it's a bit hard to read, no?

In summary, please disregard that proposal :)


> > It is something I would say that we need to be working
> > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than bugs
> > getting fixed, what else is going on?
>
> It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no chance
> to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons). Instead,
> it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> Development, QA, ...
>
> There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
> it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
> has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a position
> for larger changes.
>
> Cheers,
> Christoh
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>



--
Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
A: http://five.sentenc.es

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Cheng-Chia Tseng Cheng-Chia Tseng
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: citrus

I admire "Citrus UI" too.
If we never try, we will never know it fits or not.

I am curious about how GNOME Shell or Unity shell gets their new design done.
We defenetly can learn some experience from these projects.


On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Mirek M. <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Andrew, Christoph,
>
> 2011/9/6 Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>
>
>> Hi Andrew!
>>
>> Am Montag, den 05.09.2011, 20:16 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > Does any one know what has happened to the guy designing the "Citrus UI."
>>  I
>> > have been trying to get a hold of him so we can collaborate on his UI
>> > designs. I am really interested in making LibreOffice look good, and his
>> > designs are great.
>>
>> Yep, there are some terrific ideas - he was (and I hope: is) with us
>> since quite some time.
>
>
> Yes, I'm still here, though I don't have the time to read through all the
> e-mails. Right now, I also don't have an internet connection at home -- I
> should have it soon, but right now I have to resort to visiting the public
> library for internet.
>
>
>> He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
>> when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
>> Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
>>
>> That's a very old proposal -- I definitely wouldn't stand by it now. At the
> time, I was smitten with Microsoft's ribbon, and, instead of looking at what
> in the ribbon is an improvement over the old way of working (like better
> organization or contextuality) and what was a detriment (e.g. too much space
> taken up, having to click tabs to get to functionality that should be
> available up front, ...), I just flatly wanted OOo to emulate the ribbon
> (knee-jerk reaction). I was also unconcerned with ease of use and an
> uninterrupted workflow, instead giving importance to feature-richness (hence
> the tabs, the "tattoed" scroll bar, etc.). And, looking back at the
> proposal, it's a bit hard to read, no?
>
> In summary, please disregard that proposal :)
>
>
>> > It is something I would say that we need to be working
>> > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than bugs
>> > getting fixed, what else is going on?
>>
>> It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no chance
>> to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons). Instead,
>> it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
>> Development, QA, ...
>>
>> There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
>> it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
>> has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a position
>> for larger changes.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Christoh
>>
>>
>> --
>> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
>> Problems?
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
> A: http://five.sentenc.es
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>
>



--
Sincerely,
by Cheng-Chia Tseng

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Andrew Pullins Andrew Pullins
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: citrus

Hello Mirek

I have been wanting to talk to you for some time about your designs.


> Right now, I also don't have an internet connection at home -- I
> should have it soon, but right now I have to resort to visiting the public
> library for internet.


that sucks I have had to do that for a while too.


> > He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
> > when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
> > Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
> >
> > That's a very old proposal -- I definitely wouldn't stand by it now. at
> the time, I was smitten with Microsoft's ribbon, and, instead of looking
> at what in the ribbon is an improvement over the old way of working (like
> better

 organization or contextuality) and what was a detriment (e.g. too much
> space
> taken up, having to click tabs to get to functionality that should be
> available up front, ...), I just flatly wanted OOo to emulate the ribbon
> (knee-jerk reaction).


I was suprised by this, because I read your blog and know that you do not
like the ribbon system. I still like the ribbon UI for it is so much better
than the curent LO UI. I was in the middle of designing a UI for LO that I
made for a program that I was making(you can see them here
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Android272).  but once I found your
UI consepts and got the contextualty of them, I feel in love, and started
changing little parts of my program to suport the citus UI.

I have been working of a moc citrus Calc. I saw that you do not have Calc
done at all and have a lot of impress done. do you just not use Calc, and
are more inspired with impress.  I love what you have done.

cheers
Andrew


> > It is something I would say that we need to be working

 > > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than bugs

> > > getting fixed, what else is going on?
> >
> > It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no chance
> > to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons). Instead,
> > it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> > Development, QA, ...
> >
> > There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
> > it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
> > has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a position
> > for larger changes.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Christoh
> >
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
>

On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Cheng-Chia Tseng <[hidden email]>wrote:

> I admire "Citrus UI" too.
> If we never try, we will never know it fits or not.
>
> I am curious about how GNOME Shell or Unity shell gets their new design
> done.
> We defenetly can learn some experience from these projects.
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Mirek M. <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Andrew, Christoph,
> >
> > 2011/9/6 Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>
> >
> >> Hi Andrew!
> >>
> >> Am Montag, den 05.09.2011, 20:16 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
> >> > Hello all,
> >> >
> >> > Does any one know what has happened to the guy designing the "Citrus
> UI."
> >>  I
> >> > have been trying to get a hold of him so we can collaborate on his UI
> >> > designs. I am really interested in making LibreOffice look good, and
> his
> >> > designs are great.
> >>
> >> Yep, there are some terrific ideas - he was (and I hope: is) with us
> >> since quite some time.
> >
> >
> > Yes, I'm still here, though I don't have the time to read through all the
> > e-mails. Right now, I also don't have an internet connection at home -- I
> > should have it soon, but right now I have to resort to visiting the
> public
> > library for internet.
> >
> >
> >> He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
> >> when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
> >> Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
> >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
> >>
> >> That's a very old proposal -- I definitely wouldn't stand by it now. At
> the
> > time, I was smitten with Microsoft's ribbon, and, instead of looking at
> what
> > in the ribbon is an improvement over the old way of working (like better
> > organization or contextuality) and what was a detriment (e.g. too much
> space
> > taken up, having to click tabs to get to functionality that should be
> > available up front, ...), I just flatly wanted OOo to emulate the ribbon
> > (knee-jerk reaction). I was also unconcerned with ease of use and an
> > uninterrupted workflow, instead giving importance to feature-richness
> (hence
> > the tabs, the "tattoed" scroll bar, etc.). And, looking back at the
> > proposal, it's a bit hard to read, no?
> >
> > In summary, please disregard that proposal :)
> >
> >
> >> > It is something I would say that we need to be working
> >> > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than bugs
> >> > getting fixed, what else is going on?
> >>
> >> It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no chance
> >> to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons). Instead,
> >> it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> >> Development, QA, ...
> >>
> >> There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
> >> it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
> >> has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a position
> >> for larger changes.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Christoh
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> >> Problems?
> >> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> >> Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> >> deleted
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
> > A: http://five.sentenc.es
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> > Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> by Cheng-Chia Tseng
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Andrew Pullins Andrew Pullins
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: citrus

Mirek, and anyone interested

I have read your blog and found your Citrus.svg, I started looking through
it.  Once I figured out how things worked, I started modifying some things
here and there. Not knowing how best to get these modifications to you. Now
that I have your attention I have uploaded my version of Citrus.svg to
Google docs.  I would like to hear your ideas on my changes.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNNGJkZDY0ZDItOGNhNi00MzMzLThlNTUtZWU2ZmIyMmYyZmJi&hl=en_US<https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=vπd=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNNGJkZDY0ZDItOGNhNi00MzMzLThlNTUtZWU2ZmIyMmYyZmJi&hl=en_US>
I
hope you like the changes that I have made. Here is a list of some things I
have done. My main focus was on Calc since you have not done anything on it.
I wanted to see how it would look.


Fizz: Made one for tables.

Changed Fizz so that there is Text and Tables.
Changed Ellipses to go with tables.


Writer:

Menus:

 Documents: Now have a rename and move - this will allow the user to rename
or move the document while still writing it so they do not need to get out
of the document before they may do this.

Navigator:

 Comments: Made comments in the navigator - the comment navigator moves the
page to the left and hides the page beyond the margins. They will appear
next to the page where the in-text comment lies, much like they do now. I do
not know how to use the navigator buttons at the bottom, so I hid that.

Page Bottom:

 Added to the add page button. Now it shows a preview like impress. Like
impress you will be able to select the page format, but also whether the is
a page or section break, whether it will have headers/footers or not, and
what orientation it is in.  I did not add this but selecting headers will
change the icons to look like they have headers/footers, same goes with
orientation.


Calc:

and all of calc is new. I did all the icons vary quick so they my not look
that good.


in the mock up I added * to the begenning of what I changed of yours. hope
you like it.

On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Andrew Pullins <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hello Mirek
>
> I have been wanting to talk to you for some time about your designs.
>
>
>> Right now, I also don't have an internet connection at home -- I
>> should have it soon, but right now I have to resort to visiting the public
>> library for internet.
>
>
> that sucks I have had to do that for a while too.
>
>
>> > He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
>> > when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
>> > Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
>> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
>> >
>> > That's a very old proposal -- I definitely wouldn't stand by it now. at
>> the time, I was smitten with Microsoft's ribbon, and, instead of looking
>> at what in the ribbon is an improvement over the old way of working (like
>> better
>
>  organization or contextuality) and what was a detriment (e.g. too much
>> space
>> taken up, having to click tabs to get to functionality that should be
>> available up front, ...), I just flatly wanted OOo to emulate the ribbon
>> (knee-jerk reaction).
>
>
> I was suprised by this, because I read your blog and know that you do not
> like the ribbon system. I still like the ribbon UI for it is so much better
> than the curent LO UI. I was in the middle of designing a UI for LO that I
> made for a program that I was making(you can see them here
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Android272).  but once I found
> your UI consepts and got the contextualty of them, I feel in love, and
> started changing little parts of my program to suport the citus UI.
>
> I have been working of a moc citrus Calc. I saw that you do not have Calc
> done at all and have a lot of impress done. do you just not use Calc, and
> are more inspired with impress.  I love what you have done.
>
> cheers
> Andrew
>
>
> > > It is something I would say that we need to be working
>
>  > > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than
>> bugs
>> > > getting fixed, what else is going on?
>> >
>> > It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no chance
>> > to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons). Instead,
>> > it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
>> > Development, QA, ...
>> >
>> > There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
>> > it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
>> > has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a position
>> > for larger changes.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Christoh
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
>> > Problems?
>> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> > Posting guidelines + more:
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> > deleted
>> >
>>
>
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Cheng-Chia Tseng <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> I admire "Citrus UI" too.
>> If we never try, we will never know it fits or not.
>>
>> I am curious about how GNOME Shell or Unity shell gets their new design
>> done.
>> We defenetly can learn some experience from these projects.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Mirek M. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Hi Andrew, Christoph,
>> >
>> > 2011/9/6 Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>
>> >
>> >> Hi Andrew!
>> >>
>> >> Am Montag, den 05.09.2011, 20:16 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
>> >> > Hello all,
>> >> >
>> >> > Does any one know what has happened to the guy designing the "Citrus
>> UI."
>> >>  I
>> >> > have been trying to get a hold of him so we can collaborate on his UI
>> >> > designs. I am really interested in making LibreOffice look good, and
>> his
>> >> > designs are great.
>> >>
>> >> Yep, there are some terrific ideas - he was (and I hope: is) with us
>> >> since quite some time.
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes, I'm still here, though I don't have the time to read through all
>> the
>> > e-mails. Right now, I also don't have an internet connection at home --
>> I
>> > should have it soon, but right now I have to resort to visiting the
>> public
>> > library for internet.
>> >
>> >
>> >> He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
>> >> when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
>> >> Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
>> >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
>> >>
>> >> That's a very old proposal -- I definitely wouldn't stand by it now. At
>> the
>> > time, I was smitten with Microsoft's ribbon, and, instead of looking at
>> what
>> > in the ribbon is an improvement over the old way of working (like better
>> > organization or contextuality) and what was a detriment (e.g. too much
>> space
>> > taken up, having to click tabs to get to functionality that should be
>> > available up front, ...), I just flatly wanted OOo to emulate the ribbon
>> > (knee-jerk reaction). I was also unconcerned with ease of use and an
>> > uninterrupted workflow, instead giving importance to feature-richness
>> (hence
>> > the tabs, the "tattoed" scroll bar, etc.). And, looking back at the
>> > proposal, it's a bit hard to read, no?
>> >
>> > In summary, please disregard that proposal :)
>> >
>> >
>> >> > It is something I would say that we need to be working
>> >> > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than
>> bugs
>> >> > getting fixed, what else is going on?
>> >>
>> >> It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no
>> chance
>> >> to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons). Instead,
>> >> it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
>> >> Development, QA, ...
>> >>
>> >> There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
>> >> it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
>> >> has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a position
>> >> for larger changes.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Christoh
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
>> >> Problems?
>> >> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> >> Posting guidelines + more:
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>> >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> >> deleted
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
>> > A: http://five.sentenc.es
>> >
>> > --
>> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
>> > Problems?
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> > Posting guidelines + more:
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely,
>> by Cheng-Chia Tseng
>>
>> --
>> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
>> Problems?
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>>
>
>

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
David Nelson David Nelson
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: citrus

Hi,

On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 8:07 PM, Andrew Pullins <[hidden email]> wrote:

In any case, me, I was very enthusiastic about Mirek's work, and I
hope it will not simply be left forgotten. It might be possible these
days to contribute your work with less eternal discussion in the
lists, and to actually get some work done more quickly and
effectively.

It would be really great if we could get some of those great ideas
rolling again. LibreOffice really needs a facelift.

--
David Nelson

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

mirek2 mirek2
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: citrus

In reply to this post by Andrew Pullins
Hi Andrew,

2011/9/13 Andrew Pullins <[hidden email]>

> Mirek, and anyone interested
>
> I have read your blog and found your Citrus.svg, I started looking through
> it.  Once I figured out how things worked, I started modifying some things
> here and there. Not knowing how best to get these modifications to you. Now
> that I have your attention I have uploaded my version of Citrus.svg to
> Google docs.  I would like to hear your ideas on my changes.
>
> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNNGJkZDY0ZDItOGNhNi00MzMzLThlNTUtZWU2ZmIyMmYyZmJi&hl=en_US
> <https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v
> πd=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNNGJkZDY0ZDItOGNhNi00MzMzLThlNTUtZWU2ZmIyMmYyZmJi&hl=en_US>
>

Wow, cool. It's great to see someone playing with this -- makes me feel all
warm inside :)

I hope you like the changes that I have made. Here is a list of some things
> I
> have done. My main focus was on Calc since you have not done anything on
> it.
> I wanted to see how it would look.
>

Actually, I sort of made a quick draft of Calc a while ago, but then dropped
it, because I really don't use Calc (except in extremely rare situations)
and because Calc is a bit different from the three applications that I have
mocked up (e.g. it's not presentation based, Calc files are meant to be
viewed in the same view as they're edited in, whereas Impress files are
viewed fullscreen, Writer files on paper or in PDF, ...). Nevertheless, I've
revived it a bit, incorporated it into a new Citrus SVG file:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_RBf0YVtxzkYWFmYjM3YmQtYmU3OC00Zjg3LWE0MzctMTljNDJmY2NlOGM3

>
> Fizz: Made one for tables.


Thanks :). I'm calling fizz the floatbar now, for less confusion (I'm
suffixing everything that holds commands with -bar now).
BTW, the floatbar doesn't need "Visible buttons" and "Customize Fizz"
buttons, as the ellipsis menu shows ALL the remaining commands pertaining to
the object (it shows everything the menu does). Customization of both the
toolbar and the floatbar would be done either through drag-and-drop from/to
the ellipsis menu or in "Options."

>
> Changed Fizz so that there is Text and Tables.
> Changed Ellipses to go with tables.
>
>
> Writer:
>
> Menus:
>
> Documents: Now have a rename and move - this will allow the user to rename
> or move the document while still writing it so they do not need to get out
> of the document before they may do this.
>

+1

>
> Navigator:
>
>  Comments: Made comments in the navigator - the comment navigator moves the
> page to the left and hides the page beyond the margins. They will appear
> next to the page where the in-text comment lies, much like they do now. I
> do
> not know how to use the navigator buttons at the bottom, so I hid that.
>
I'd keep comments inline, like now, separate from the Navigator. Navigator
should present a quickly browseable list of comments.

>
> Page Bottom:
>
>  Added to the add page button. Now it shows a preview like impress. Like
> impress you will be able to select the page format, but also whether the is
> a page or section break, whether it will have headers/footers or not, and
> what orientation it is in.  I did not add this but selecting headers will
> change the icons to look like they have headers/footers, same goes with
> orientation.
>

Nice -- adds consistency (my original plan was to have "Add page" just
insert a page, but that really would be inconsistent). I tweaked it a bit --
removed the "section break" bit, since it's really a button just for a new
page (page break), and the "header/footer" bit, since that should be addable
just by (double?)-clicking in the general header/footer area (this bit of
behavior isn't in LibO yet). Plus I added a "Page number" item.

>
>
> Calc:
>
> and all of calc is new.  I did all the icons vary quick so they my not look

that good.
>
> Some notes: the function toolbar shouldn't really contain a box for
symbols. The main toolbar is really just a single-line thing. Plus, symbols
should be inserted through the insertbar (the toolbox on the left) or
through Insert>Special character.

>
> in the mock up I added * to the begenning of what I changed of yours. hope
> you like it.


Great -- I'm happy to have someone excited about this project.
I'm just wondering whether it will have any impact, whether this will really
be worked on...

>
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Andrew Pullins <[hidden email]
> >wrote:
>
> > Hello Mirek
> >
> > I have been wanting to talk to you for some time about your designs.
> >
> >
> >> Right now, I also don't have an internet connection at home -- I
> >> should have it soon, but right now I have to resort to visiting the
> public
> >> library for internet.
> >
> >
> > that sucks I have had to do that for a while too.
> >
> >
> >> > He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
> >> > when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
> >> > Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
> >> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
> >> >
> >> > That's a very old proposal -- I definitely wouldn't stand by it now.
> at
> >> the time, I was smitten with Microsoft's ribbon, and, instead of looking
> >> at what in the ribbon is an improvement over the old way of working
> (like
> >> better
> >
> >  organization or contextuality) and what was a detriment (e.g. too much
> >> space
> >> taken up, having to click tabs to get to functionality that should be
> >> available up front, ...), I just flatly wanted OOo to emulate the ribbon
> >> (knee-jerk reaction).
> >
> >
> > I was suprised by this, because I read your blog and know that you do not
> > like the ribbon system. I still like the ribbon UI for it is so much
> better
> > than the curent LO UI. I was in the middle of designing a UI for LO that
> I
> > made for a program that I was making(you can see them here
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Android272).  but once I found
> > your UI consepts and got the contextualty of them, I feel in love, and
> > started changing little parts of my program to suport the citus UI.
> >
> > I have been working of a moc citrus Calc. I saw that you do not have Calc
> > done at all and have a lot of impress done. do you just not use Calc, and
> > are more inspired with impress.  I love what you have done.
> >
> > cheers
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> > > > It is something I would say that we need to be working
> >
> >  > > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than
> >> bugs
> >> > > getting fixed, what else is going on?
> >> >
> >> > It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no
> chance
> >> > to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons).
> Instead,
> >> > it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> >> > Development, QA, ...
> >> >
> >> > There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI
> -
> >> > it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider
> which
> >> > has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a
> position
> >> > for larger changes.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > Christoh
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> [hidden email]
> >> > Problems?
> >> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> >> > Posting guidelines + more:
> >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> >> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> >> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> >> > deleted
> >> >
> >>
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Cheng-Chia Tseng <[hidden email]
> >wrote:
> >
> >> I admire "Citrus UI" too.
> >> If we never try, we will never know it fits or not.
> >>
> >> I am curious about how GNOME Shell or Unity shell gets their new design
> >> done.
> >> We defenetly can learn some experience from these projects.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Mirek M. <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> > Hi Andrew, Christoph,
> >> >
> >> > 2011/9/6 Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>
> >> >
> >> >> Hi Andrew!
> >> >>
> >> >> Am Montag, den 05.09.2011, 20:16 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
> >> >> > Hello all,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Does any one know what has happened to the guy designing the
> "Citrus
> >> UI."
> >> >>  I
> >> >> > have been trying to get a hold of him so we can collaborate on his
> UI
> >> >> > designs. I am really interested in making LibreOffice look good,
> and
> >> his
> >> >> > designs are great.
> >> >>
> >> >> Yep, there are some terrific ideas - he was (and I hope: is) with us
> >> >> since quite some time.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yes, I'm still here, though I don't have the time to read through all
> >> the
> >> > e-mails. Right now, I also don't have an internet connection at home
> --
> >> I
> >> > should have it soon, but right now I have to resort to visiting the
> >> public
> >> > library for internet.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
> >> >> when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
> >> >> Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
> >> >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
> >> >>
> >> >> That's a very old proposal -- I definitely wouldn't stand by it now.
> At
> >> the
> >> > time, I was smitten with Microsoft's ribbon, and, instead of looking
> at
> >> what
> >> > in the ribbon is an improvement over the old way of working (like
> better
> >> > organization or contextuality) and what was a detriment (e.g. too much
> >> space
> >> > taken up, having to click tabs to get to functionality that should be
> >> > available up front, ...), I just flatly wanted OOo to emulate the
> ribbon
> >> > (knee-jerk reaction). I was also unconcerned with ease of use and an
> >> > uninterrupted workflow, instead giving importance to feature-richness
> >> (hence
> >> > the tabs, the "tattoed" scroll bar, etc.). And, looking back at the
> >> > proposal, it's a bit hard to read, no?
> >> >
> >> > In summary, please disregard that proposal :)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> > It is something I would say that we need to be working
> >> >> > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than
> >> bugs
> >> >> > getting fixed, what else is going on?
> >> >>
> >> >> It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no
> >> chance
> >> >> to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons).
> Instead,
> >> >> it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> >> >> Development, QA, ...
> >> >>
> >> >> There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI
> -
> >> >> it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider
> which
> >> >> has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a
> position
> >> >> for larger changes.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> Christoh
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> [hidden email]
> >> >> Problems?
> >> >>
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> >> >> Posting guidelines + more:
> >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> >> >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> >> >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot
> be
> >> >> deleted
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
> >> > A: http://five.sentenc.es
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> [hidden email]
> >> > Problems?
> >> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> >> > Posting guidelines + more:
> >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> >> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> >> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> >> deleted
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sincerely,
> >> by Cheng-Chia Tseng
> >>
> >> --
> >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> >> Problems?
> >> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> >> Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> >> deleted
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>



--
Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
A: http://five.sentenc.es

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Andrew Pullins Andrew Pullins
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: citrus

>
> I'm calling fizz the floatbar now[...]


aww I liked fizz, but what ever.


> BTW, the floatbar doesn't need "Visible buttons" and "Customize Fizz"
> buttons [...] Customization of both the toolbar and the floatbar would be
> done either through drag-and-drop from/to
> the ellipsis menu or in "Options."


I was unaware of your idea to be able to drag and drop. my thought with this
was to have the visible buttons be like they are when you click on the down
arrows at the end of a tool bar that we have now, that would you would be
able to check and uncheck items that would be in the floatbar.

as for the customize floatbar, I just though sence you are in the floatbars'
ellipsis menu it would be nice to have a menu item that would direct you to
the floatbars' customize section in options. instead of going to view
> customize interface > floatbar > text/table/picture floatbar and then
customizing the floatbar. with customize being in the ellipsis menu you
could jump straight to customizing the bar.

my brother absolutly hates the curent "floatbar" like menu that LibO has
now. his frustration is that it gets in the way and is not helpful at all.
most of the time the curent menu is placed infrunt of what you
are manipulating (e.g. text, tables, bullets/numbering). you have made this
better by making it pop up above the thing your are manipulating. I saw that
M$ Office has another interesting solution that I wanted to know what you
thought of it. in M$O there is a radius around the menu in which if you go
out of the circle the menu diapers and when you get closer to it reapers.



> I'd keep comments inline, like now, separate from the Navigator. Navigator
> should present a quickly browseable list of comments.


im trying to understand what you are talking about here.  I read in your
blog that there wold be comments in the navigator, though may be you were
talking about something else[1]. my idea for the comment system would react
much as it does not being inline. I just used the navigator to show them. as
you scroll up and down your page so would the comments in the navigator.
 this way you could collapse your comments, because some times when editing
a document the comments get annoying.

I just added a previous, next, and ellpsis to my mock up[2].

Nice -- adds consistency (my original plan was to have "Add page" just
> insert a page, but that really would be inconsistent).


that was my thought when I saw it in the mock up.


> I tweaked it a bit -- removed the "section break" bit, since it's really a
> button just for a new
> page (page break)[...]


while with your context idea, a section break may not make seance in this
menu. but if you know the awesomeness of a section break, I think that this
should stay. may be add just section break back in as a check box so
that unchecked would be just page brake. so you would have it just be in the
insert menu. I think that this should be placed back in just as a quick
section brake. besides most people will continue pressing return as a page
brake and may only click on the add page button if they want to add some new
page style.


> [...], and the "header/footer" bit, since that should be addable
> just by (double?)-clicking in the general header/footer area (this bit of
> behavior isn't in LibO yet).


I like double clicking to create header/footer's in M$O and hope it gets
included in future versions of LibO.  but if you agree with me in retearning
section brake to this menu then a quick Header/Footer option would be
great.


> Plus I added a "Page number" item.


what would this do? add page multiple pages of what ever the user chooses as
the page layout.

> Some notes: the function toolbar shouldn't really contain a box for
> symbols. The main toolbar is really just a single-line thing. Plus, symbols
> should be inserted through the insertbar (the toolbox on the left) or
> through Insert>Special character.


well when you are creating a formula you would need to keep all these things
together. to have them in separate would be quite annoying.  I agree that
there should be a special character in the Insert menu. to have a separate
insertbar for Special characters would not make since, if we where to keep
it in the formula bar.

Great -- I'm happy to have someone excited about this project.
> I'm just wondering whether it will have any impact, whether this will
> really
> be worked on...


I'm happy just to be working with you on this. I have been wanting to
improve the UI for some time, and I did not know how to get a hold of you.
 this better make an impact, if the UI does not change soon(as in yesterday)
there is no point in doing any of this. banners, webdesign, icons all of the
this stuff the design team is pointless unless people are atracced to the
Office suite and want to use it. we have a better Office suite but it looks
like crap right now, and people wont give it a second glance because of this
even if the suite is free or not. we need to get the Dev team working in our
direction, if we don't they will just keep adding feature that no one will
know is there because its hidden in the background and fixing bugs. I like
how you purposed mile stones in your blog. they need to get the software to
the point where they can start on your mile stones. that way this can
be implemented soon.

Notes on your new UI Mock up

over all I like the new Mock up. it seems to be missing some stuff that the
old one did, and is much cleaner then it was too. I will add some of my
stuff to this one and then upload it to my gmail docs soon.

where does the app menu go. the firs layer of Citrus, it is just off to the
side of the app and does not seem to go with any thing.  and how do you get
to the styles menu?

links
[1]
http://clickortap.wordpress.com/category/mockups/citrus-ui/
[2]
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNNGJkZDY0ZDItOGNhNi00MzMzLThlNTUtZWU2ZmIyMmYyZmJi&hl=en_US



2011/9/23 Mirek M. <[hidden email]>

> Hi Andrew,
>
> 2011/9/13 Andrew Pullins <[hidden email]>
>
> > Mirek, and anyone interested
> >
> > I have read your blog and found your Citrus.svg, I started looking
> through
> > it.  Once I figured out how things worked, I started modifying some
> things
> > here and there. Not knowing how best to get these modifications to you.
> Now
> > that I have your attention I have uploaded my version of Citrus.svg to
> > Google docs.  I would like to hear your ideas on my changes.
> >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNNGJkZDY0ZDItOGNhNi00MzMzLThlNTUtZWU2ZmIyMmYyZmJi&hl=en_US
> > <https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v
> >
> πd=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNNGJkZDY0ZDItOGNhNi00MzMzLThlNTUtZWU2ZmIyMmYyZmJi&hl=en_US>
> >
>
> Wow, cool. It's great to see someone playing with this -- makes me feel all
> warm inside :)
>
> I hope you like the changes that I have made. Here is a list of some things
> > I
> > have done. My main focus was on Calc since you have not done anything on
> > it.
> > I wanted to see how it would look.
> >
>
> Actually, I sort of made a quick draft of Calc a while ago, but then
> dropped
> it, because I really don't use Calc (except in extremely rare situations)
> and because Calc is a bit different from the three applications that I have
> mocked up (e.g. it's not presentation based, Calc files are meant to be
> viewed in the same view as they're edited in, whereas Impress files are
> viewed fullscreen, Writer files on paper or in PDF, ...). Nevertheless,
> I've
> revived it a bit, incorporated it into a new Citrus SVG file:
>
> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_RBf0YVtxzkYWFmYjM3YmQtYmU3OC00Zjg3LWE0MzctMTljNDJmY2NlOGM3
>
> >
> > Fizz: Made one for tables.
>
>
> Thanks :). I'm calling fizz the floatbar now, for less confusion (I'm
> suffixing everything that holds commands with -bar now).
> BTW, the floatbar doesn't need "Visible buttons" and "Customize Fizz"
> buttons, as the ellipsis menu shows ALL the remaining commands pertaining
> to
> the object (it shows everything the menu does). Customization of both the
> toolbar and the floatbar would be done either through drag-and-drop from/to
> the ellipsis menu or in "Options."
>
> >
> > Changed Fizz so that there is Text and Tables.
> > Changed Ellipses to go with tables.
> >
> >
> > Writer:
> >
> > Menus:
> >
> > Documents: Now have a rename and move - this will allow the user to
> rename
> > or move the document while still writing it so they do not need to get
> out
> > of the document before they may do this.
> >
>
> +1
>
> >
> > Navigator:
> >
> >  Comments: Made comments in the navigator - the comment navigator moves
> the
> > page to the left and hides the page beyond the margins. They will appear
> > next to the page where the in-text comment lies, much like they do now. I
> > do
> > not know how to use the navigator buttons at the bottom, so I hid that.
> >
> I'd keep comments inline, like now, separate from the Navigator. Navigator
> should present a quickly browseable list of comments.
>
> >
> > Page Bottom:
> >
> >  Added to the add page button. Now it shows a preview like impress. Like
> > impress you will be able to select the page format, but also whether the
> is
> > a page or section break, whether it will have headers/footers or not, and
> > what orientation it is in.  I did not add this but selecting headers will
> > change the icons to look like they have headers/footers, same goes with
> > orientation.
> >
>
> Nice -- adds consistency (my original plan was to have "Add page" just
> insert a page, but that really would be inconsistent). I tweaked it a bit
> --
> removed the "section break" bit, since it's really a button just for a new
> page (page break), and the "header/footer" bit, since that should be
> addable
> just by (double?)-clicking in the general header/footer area (this bit of
> behavior isn't in LibO yet). Plus I added a "Page number" item.
>
> >
> >
> > Calc:
> >
> > and all of calc is new.  I did all the icons vary quick so they my not
> look
>
> that good.
> >
> > Some notes: the function toolbar shouldn't really contain a box for
> symbols. The main toolbar is really just a single-line thing. Plus, symbols
> should be inserted through the insertbar (the toolbox on the left) or
> through Insert>Special character.
>
> >
> > in the mock up I added * to the begenning of what I changed of yours.
> hope
> > you like it.
>
>
> Great -- I'm happy to have someone excited about this project.
> I'm just wondering whether it will have any impact, whether this will
> really
> be worked on...
>
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Andrew Pullins <[hidden email]
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Mirek
> > >
> > > I have been wanting to talk to you for some time about your designs.
> > >
> > >
> > >> Right now, I also don't have an internet connection at home -- I
> > >> should have it soon, but right now I have to resort to visiting the
> > public
> > >> library for internet.
> > >
> > >
> > > that sucks I have had to do that for a while too.
> > >
> > >
> > >> > He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
> > >> > when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
> > >> > Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
> > >> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
> > >> >
> > >> > That's a very old proposal -- I definitely wouldn't stand by it now.
> > at
> > >> the time, I was smitten with Microsoft's ribbon, and, instead of
> looking
> > >> at what in the ribbon is an improvement over the old way of working
> > (like
> > >> better
> > >
> > >  organization or contextuality) and what was a detriment (e.g. too much
> > >> space
> > >> taken up, having to click tabs to get to functionality that should be
> > >> available up front, ...), I just flatly wanted OOo to emulate the
> ribbon
> > >> (knee-jerk reaction).
> > >
> > >
> > > I was suprised by this, because I read your blog and know that you do
> not
> > > like the ribbon system. I still like the ribbon UI for it is so much
> > better
> > > than the curent LO UI. I was in the middle of designing a UI for LO
> that
> > I
> > > made for a program that I was making(you can see them here
> > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Android272).  but once I found
> > > your UI consepts and got the contextualty of them, I feel in love, and
> > > started changing little parts of my program to suport the citus UI.
> > >
> > > I have been working of a moc citrus Calc. I saw that you do not have
> Calc
> > > done at all and have a lot of impress done. do you just not use Calc,
> and
> > > are more inspired with impress.  I love what you have done.
> > >
> > > cheers
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > >
> > > > > It is something I would say that we need to be working
> > >
> > >  > > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than
> > >> bugs
> > >> > > getting fixed, what else is going on?
> > >> >
> > >> > It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no
> > chance
> > >> > to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons).
> > Instead,
> > >> > it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> > >> > Development, QA, ...
> > >> >
> > >> > There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the
> UI
> > -
> > >> > it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider
> > which
> > >> > has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a
> > position
> > >> > for larger changes.
> > >> >
> > >> > Cheers,
> > >> > Christoh
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> > [hidden email]
> > >> > Problems?
> > >> >
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > >> > Posting guidelines + more:
> > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > >> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > >> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot
> be
> > >> > deleted
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Cheng-Chia Tseng <
> [hidden email]
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> I admire "Citrus UI" too.
> > >> If we never try, we will never know it fits or not.
> > >>
> > >> I am curious about how GNOME Shell or Unity shell gets their new
> design
> > >> done.
> > >> We defenetly can learn some experience from these projects.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Mirek M. <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >> > Hi Andrew, Christoph,
> > >> >
> > >> > 2011/9/6 Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>
> > >> >
> > >> >> Hi Andrew!
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Am Montag, den 05.09.2011, 20:16 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
> > >> >> > Hello all,
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Does any one know what has happened to the guy designing the
> > "Citrus
> > >> UI."
> > >> >>  I
> > >> >> > have been trying to get a hold of him so we can collaborate on
> his
> > UI
> > >> >> > designs. I am really interested in making LibreOffice look good,
> > and
> > >> his
> > >> >> > designs are great.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Yep, there are some terrific ideas - he was (and I hope: is) with
> us
> > >> >> since quite some time.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Yes, I'm still here, though I don't have the time to read through
> all
> > >> the
> > >> > e-mails. Right now, I also don't have an internet connection at home
> > --
> > >> I
> > >> > should have it soon, but right now I have to resort to visiting the
> > >> public
> > >> > library for internet.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
> > >> >> when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
> > >> >> Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
> > >> >>
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
> > >> >>
> > >> >> That's a very old proposal -- I definitely wouldn't stand by it
> now.
> > At
> > >> the
> > >> > time, I was smitten with Microsoft's ribbon, and, instead of looking
> > at
> > >> what
> > >> > in the ribbon is an improvement over the old way of working (like
> > better
> > >> > organization or contextuality) and what was a detriment (e.g. too
> much
> > >> space
> > >> > taken up, having to click tabs to get to functionality that should
> be
> > >> > available up front, ...), I just flatly wanted OOo to emulate the
> > ribbon
> > >> > (knee-jerk reaction). I was also unconcerned with ease of use and an
> > >> > uninterrupted workflow, instead giving importance to
> feature-richness
> > >> (hence
> > >> > the tabs, the "tattoed" scroll bar, etc.). And, looking back at the
> > >> > proposal, it's a bit hard to read, no?
> > >> >
> > >> > In summary, please disregard that proposal :)
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> > It is something I would say that we need to be working
> > >> >> > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than
> > >> bugs
> > >> >> > getting fixed, what else is going on?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no
> > >> chance
> > >> >> to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons).
> > Instead,
> > >> >> it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> > >> >> Development, QA, ...
> > >> >>
> > >> >> There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the
> UI
> > -
> > >> >> it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider
> > which
> > >> >> has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a
> > position
> > >> >> for larger changes.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Cheers,
> > >> >> Christoh
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> > [hidden email]
> > >> >> Problems?
> > >> >>
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > >> >> Posting guidelines + more:
> > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > >> >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > >> >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot
> > be
> > >> >> deleted
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
> > >> > A: http://five.sentenc.es
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> > [hidden email]
> > >> > Problems?
> > >> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > >> > Posting guidelines + more:
> > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > >> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > >> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot
> be
> > >> deleted
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Sincerely,
> > >> by Cheng-Chia Tseng
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> [hidden email]
> > >> Problems?
> > >> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > >> Posting guidelines + more:
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > >> deleted
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
> A: http://five.sentenc.es
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Andrew Pullins Andrew Pullins
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: citrus

Mirek,

why did you switch the order in the text bar. the font name, font size,
Bold, Italic.... are now on the right of right justify, center, left
justify, Justify (and for calc top, center, down).

just wondering.
Andrew

2011/9/24 Andrew Pullins <[hidden email]>

>  I'm calling fizz the floatbar now[...]
>
>
> aww I liked fizz, but what ever.
>
>
>>  BTW, the floatbar doesn't need "Visible buttons" and "Customize Fizz"
>> buttons [...] Customization of both the toolbar and the floatbar would be
>> done either through drag-and-drop from/to
>> the ellipsis menu or in "Options."
>>
>
> I was unaware of your idea to be able to drag and drop. my thought with
> this was to have the visible buttons be like they are when you click on the
> down arrows at the end of a tool bar that we have now, that would you would
> be able to check and uncheck items that would be in the floatbar.
>
> as for the customize floatbar, I just though sence you are in the
> floatbars' ellipsis menu it would be nice to have a menu item that would
> direct you to the floatbars' customize section in options. instead of going
> to view > customize interface > floatbar > text/table/picture floatbar and
> then customizing the floatbar. with customize being in the ellipsis menu you
> could jump straight to customizing the bar.
>
> my brother absolutly hates the curent "floatbar" like menu that LibO has
> now. his frustration is that it gets in the way and is not helpful at all.
> most of the time the curent menu is placed infrunt of what you
> are manipulating (e.g. text, tables, bullets/numbering). you have made this
> better by making it pop up above the thing your are manipulating. I saw that
> M$ Office has another interesting solution that I wanted to know what you
> thought of it. in M$O there is a radius around the menu in which if you go
> out of the circle the menu diapers and when you get closer to it reapers.
>
>
>
>> I'd keep comments inline, like now, separate from the Navigator. Navigator
>> should present a quickly browseable list of comments.
>
>
> im trying to understand what you are talking about here.  I read in your
> blog that there wold be comments in the navigator, though may be you were
> talking about something else[1]. my idea for the comment system would react
> much as it does not being inline. I just used the navigator to show them. as
> you scroll up and down your page so would the comments in the navigator.
>  this way you could collapse your comments, because some times when editing
> a document the comments get annoying.
>
> I just added a previous, next, and ellpsis to my mock up[2].
>
> Nice -- adds consistency (my original plan was to have "Add page" just
>> insert a page, but that really would be inconsistent).
>
>
> that was my thought when I saw it in the mock up.
>
>
>>  I tweaked it a bit -- removed the "section break" bit, since it's really
>> a button just for a new
>> page (page break)[...]
>
>
> while with your context idea, a section break may not make seance in this
> menu. but if you know the awesomeness of a section break, I think that this
> should stay. may be add just section break back in as a check box so
> that unchecked would be just page brake. so you would have it just be in the
> insert menu. I think that this should be placed back in just as a quick
> section brake. besides most people will continue pressing return as a page
> brake and may only click on the add page button if they want to add some new
> page style.
>
>
>> [...], and the "header/footer" bit, since that should be addable
>> just by (double?)-clicking in the general header/footer area (this bit of
>> behavior isn't in LibO yet).
>>
>
> I like double clicking to create header/footer's in M$O and hope it gets
> included in future versions of LibO.  but if you agree with me in retearning
> section brake to this menu then a quick Header/Footer option would be
> great.
>
>
>> Plus I added a "Page number" item.
>
>
> what would this do? add page multiple pages of what ever the user chooses
> as the page layout.
>
> > Some notes: the function toolbar shouldn't really contain a box for
>> symbols. The main toolbar is really just a single-line thing. Plus,
>> symbols
>> should be inserted through the insertbar (the toolbox on the left) or
>> through Insert>Special character.
>
>
> well when you are creating a formula you would need to keep all these
> things together. to have them in separate would be quite annoying.  I agree
> that there should be a special character in the Insert menu. to have a
> separate insertbar for Special characters would not make since, if we where
> to keep it in the formula bar.
>
> Great -- I'm happy to have someone excited about this project.
>> I'm just wondering whether it will have any impact, whether this will
>> really
>> be worked on...
>
>
> I'm happy just to be working with you on this. I have been wanting to
> improve the UI for some time, and I did not know how to get a hold of you.
>  this better make an impact, if the UI does not change soon(as in yesterday)
> there is no point in doing any of this. banners, webdesign, icons all of the
> this stuff the design team is pointless unless people are atracced to the
> Office suite and want to use it. we have a better Office suite but it looks
> like crap right now, and people wont give it a second glance because of this
> even if the suite is free or not. we need to get the Dev team working in our
> direction, if we don't they will just keep adding feature that no one will
> know is there because its hidden in the background and fixing bugs. I like
> how you purposed mile stones in your blog. they need to get the software to
> the point where they can start on your mile stones. that way this can
> be implemented soon.
>
> Notes on your new UI Mock up
>
> over all I like the new Mock up. it seems to be missing some stuff that the
> old one did, and is much cleaner then it was too. I will add some of my
> stuff to this one and then upload it to my gmail docs soon.
>
> where does the app menu go. the firs layer of Citrus, it is just off to
> the side of the app and does not seem to go with any thing.  and how do you
> get to the styles menu?
>
> links
> [1]
> http://clickortap.wordpress.com/category/mockups/citrus-ui/
> [2]
>
> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNNGJkZDY0ZDItOGNhNi00MzMzLThlNTUtZWU2ZmIyMmYyZmJi&hl=en_US
>
>
>
> 2011/9/23 Mirek M. <[hidden email]>
>
> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> 2011/9/13 Andrew Pullins <[hidden email]>
>>
>> > Mirek, and anyone interested
>> >
>> > I have read your blog and found your Citrus.svg, I started looking
>> through
>> > it.  Once I figured out how things worked, I started modifying some
>> things
>> > here and there. Not knowing how best to get these modifications to you.
>> Now
>> > that I have your attention I have uploaded my version of Citrus.svg to
>> > Google docs.  I would like to hear your ideas on my changes.
>> >
>> >
>> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNNGJkZDY0ZDItOGNhNi00MzMzLThlNTUtZWU2ZmIyMmYyZmJi&hl=en_US
>> > <https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v
>> >
>> πd=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNNGJkZDY0ZDItOGNhNi00MzMzLThlNTUtZWU2ZmIyMmYyZmJi&hl=en_US>
>> >
>>
>> Wow, cool. It's great to see someone playing with this -- makes me feel
>> all
>> warm inside :)
>>
>> I hope you like the changes that I have made. Here is a list of some
>> things
>> > I
>> > have done. My main focus was on Calc since you have not done anything on
>> > it.
>> > I wanted to see how it would look.
>> >
>>
>> Actually, I sort of made a quick draft of Calc a while ago, but then
>> dropped
>> it, because I really don't use Calc (except in extremely rare situations)
>> and because Calc is a bit different from the three applications that I
>> have
>> mocked up (e.g. it's not presentation based, Calc files are meant to be
>> viewed in the same view as they're edited in, whereas Impress files are
>> viewed fullscreen, Writer files on paper or in PDF, ...). Nevertheless,
>> I've
>> revived it a bit, incorporated it into a new Citrus SVG file:
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_RBf0YVtxzkYWFmYjM3YmQtYmU3OC00Zjg3LWE0MzctMTljNDJmY2NlOGM3
>>
>> >
>> > Fizz: Made one for tables.
>>
>>
>> Thanks :). I'm calling fizz the floatbar now, for less confusion (I'm
>> suffixing everything that holds commands with -bar now).
>> BTW, the floatbar doesn't need "Visible buttons" and "Customize Fizz"
>> buttons, as the ellipsis menu shows ALL the remaining commands pertaining
>> to
>> the object (it shows everything the menu does). Customization of both the
>> toolbar and the floatbar would be done either through drag-and-drop
>> from/to
>> the ellipsis menu or in "Options."
>>
>> >
>> > Changed Fizz so that there is Text and Tables.
>> > Changed Ellipses to go with tables.
>> >
>> >
>> > Writer:
>> >
>> > Menus:
>> >
>> > Documents: Now have a rename and move - this will allow the user to
>> rename
>> > or move the document while still writing it so they do not need to get
>> out
>> > of the document before they may do this.
>> >
>>
>> +1
>>
>> >
>> > Navigator:
>> >
>> >  Comments: Made comments in the navigator - the comment navigator moves
>> the
>> > page to the left and hides the page beyond the margins. They will appear
>> > next to the page where the in-text comment lies, much like they do now.
>> I
>> > do
>> > not know how to use the navigator buttons at the bottom, so I hid that.
>> >
>> I'd keep comments inline, like now, separate from the Navigator. Navigator
>> should present a quickly browseable list of comments.
>>
>> >
>> > Page Bottom:
>> >
>> >  Added to the add page button. Now it shows a preview like impress. Like
>> > impress you will be able to select the page format, but also whether the
>> is
>> > a page or section break, whether it will have headers/footers or not,
>> and
>> > what orientation it is in.  I did not add this but selecting headers
>> will
>> > change the icons to look like they have headers/footers, same goes with
>> > orientation.
>> >
>>
>> Nice -- adds consistency (my original plan was to have "Add page" just
>> insert a page, but that really would be inconsistent). I tweaked it a bit
>> --
>> removed the "section break" bit, since it's really a button just for a new
>> page (page break), and the "header/footer" bit, since that should be
>> addable
>> just by (double?)-clicking in the general header/footer area (this bit of
>> behavior isn't in LibO yet). Plus I added a "Page number" item.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Calc:
>> >
>> > and all of calc is new.  I did all the icons vary quick so they my not
>> look
>>
>> that good.
>> >
>> > Some notes: the function toolbar shouldn't really contain a box for
>> symbols. The main toolbar is really just a single-line thing. Plus,
>> symbols
>> should be inserted through the insertbar (the toolbox on the left) or
>> through Insert>Special character.
>>
>> >
>> > in the mock up I added * to the begenning of what I changed of yours.
>> hope
>> > you like it.
>>
>>
>> Great -- I'm happy to have someone excited about this project.
>> I'm just wondering whether it will have any impact, whether this will
>> really
>> be worked on...
>>
>> >
>> > On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Andrew Pullins <[hidden email]
>> > >wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hello Mirek
>> > >
>> > > I have been wanting to talk to you for some time about your designs.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> Right now, I also don't have an internet connection at home -- I
>> > >> should have it soon, but right now I have to resort to visiting the
>> > public
>> > >> library for internet.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > that sucks I have had to do that for a while too.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> > He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
>> > >> > when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
>> > >> > Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
>> > >> >
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
>> > >> >
>> > >> > That's a very old proposal -- I definitely wouldn't stand by it
>> now.
>> > at
>> > >> the time, I was smitten with Microsoft's ribbon, and, instead of
>> looking
>> > >> at what in the ribbon is an improvement over the old way of working
>> > (like
>> > >> better
>> > >
>> > >  organization or contextuality) and what was a detriment (e.g. too
>> much
>> > >> space
>> > >> taken up, having to click tabs to get to functionality that should be
>> > >> available up front, ...), I just flatly wanted OOo to emulate the
>> ribbon
>> > >> (knee-jerk reaction).
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I was suprised by this, because I read your blog and know that you do
>> not
>> > > like the ribbon system. I still like the ribbon UI for it is so much
>> > better
>> > > than the curent LO UI. I was in the middle of designing a UI for LO
>> that
>> > I
>> > > made for a program that I was making(you can see them here
>> > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Android272).  but once I
>> found
>> > > your UI consepts and got the contextualty of them, I feel in love, and
>> > > started changing little parts of my program to suport the citus UI.
>> > >
>> > > I have been working of a moc citrus Calc. I saw that you do not have
>> Calc
>> > > done at all and have a lot of impress done. do you just not use Calc,
>> and
>> > > are more inspired with impress.  I love what you have done.
>> > >
>> > > cheers
>> > > Andrew
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > > It is something I would say that we need to be working
>> > >
>> > >  > > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than
>> > >> bugs
>> > >> > > getting fixed, what else is going on?
>> > >> >
>> > >> > It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no
>> > chance
>> > >> > to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons).
>> > Instead,
>> > >> > it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
>> > >> > Development, QA, ...
>> > >> >
>> > >> > There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the
>> UI
>> > -
>> > >> > it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider
>> > which
>> > >> > has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a
>> > position
>> > >> > for larger changes.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Cheers,
>> > >> > Christoh
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > --
>> > >> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
>> > [hidden email]
>> > >> > Problems?
>> > >> >
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> > >> > Posting guidelines + more:
>> > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> > >> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>> > >> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot
>> be
>> > >> > deleted
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Cheng-Chia Tseng <
>> [hidden email]
>> > >wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> I admire "Citrus UI" too.
>> > >> If we never try, we will never know it fits or not.
>> > >>
>> > >> I am curious about how GNOME Shell or Unity shell gets their new
>> design
>> > >> done.
>> > >> We defenetly can learn some experience from these projects.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Mirek M. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > >> > Hi Andrew, Christoph,
>> > >> >
>> > >> > 2011/9/6 Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>
>> > >> >
>> > >> >> Hi Andrew!
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Am Montag, den 05.09.2011, 20:16 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
>> > >> >> > Hello all,
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > Does any one know what has happened to the guy designing the
>> > "Citrus
>> > >> UI."
>> > >> >>  I
>> > >> >> > have been trying to get a hold of him so we can collaborate on
>> his
>> > UI
>> > >> >> > designs. I am really interested in making LibreOffice look good,
>> > and
>> > >> his
>> > >> >> > designs are great.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Yep, there are some terrific ideas - he was (and I hope: is) with
>> us
>> > >> >> since quite some time.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Yes, I'm still here, though I don't have the time to read through
>> all
>> > >> the
>> > >> > e-mails. Right now, I also don't have an internet connection at
>> home
>> > --
>> > >> I
>> > >> > should have it soon, but right now I have to resort to visiting the
>> > >> public
>> > >> > library for internet.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >> He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
>> > >> >> when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
>> > >> >> Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
>> > >> >>
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> That's a very old proposal -- I definitely wouldn't stand by it
>> now.
>> > At
>> > >> the
>> > >> > time, I was smitten with Microsoft's ribbon, and, instead of
>> looking
>> > at
>> > >> what
>> > >> > in the ribbon is an improvement over the old way of working (like
>> > better
>> > >> > organization or contextuality) and what was a detriment (e.g. too
>> much
>> > >> space
>> > >> > taken up, having to click tabs to get to functionality that should
>> be
>> > >> > available up front, ...), I just flatly wanted OOo to emulate the
>> > ribbon
>> > >> > (knee-jerk reaction). I was also unconcerned with ease of use and
>> an
>> > >> > uninterrupted workflow, instead giving importance to
>> feature-richness
>> > >> (hence
>> > >> > the tabs, the "tattoed" scroll bar, etc.). And, looking back at the
>> > >> > proposal, it's a bit hard to read, no?
>> > >> >
>> > >> > In summary, please disregard that proposal :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >> > It is something I would say that we need to be working
>> > >> >> > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other
>> than
>> > >> bugs
>> > >> >> > getting fixed, what else is going on?
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no
>> > >> chance
>> > >> >> to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons).
>> > Instead,
>> > >> >> it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
>> > >> >> Development, QA, ...
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the
>> UI
>> > -
>> > >> >> it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider
>> > which
>> > >> >> has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a
>> > position
>> > >> >> for larger changes.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Cheers,
>> > >> >> Christoh
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> --
>> > >> >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
>> > [hidden email]
>> > >> >> Problems?
>> > >> >>
>> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> > >> >> Posting guidelines + more:
>> > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> > >> >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>> > >> >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and
>> cannot
>> > be
>> > >> >> deleted
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > --
>> > >> > Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
>> > >> > A: http://five.sentenc.es
>> > >> >
>> > >> > --
>> > >> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
>> > [hidden email]
>> > >> > Problems?
>> > >>
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> > >> > Posting guidelines + more:
>> > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> > >> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>> > >> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot
>> be
>> > >> deleted
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Sincerely,
>> > >> by Cheng-Chia Tseng
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
>> [hidden email]
>> > >> Problems?
>> > >>
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> > >> Posting guidelines + more:
>> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> > >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>> > >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot
>> be
>> > >> deleted
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
>> > Problems?
>> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> > Posting guidelines + more:
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> > deleted
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
>> A: http://five.sentenc.es
>>
>> --
>> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
>> Problems?
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>>
>
>

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
mirek2 mirek2
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: citrus

In reply to this post by Andrew Pullins
2011/9/24 Andrew Pullins <[hidden email]>

> >
> > I'm calling fizz the floatbar now[...]
>
>
> aww I liked fizz, but what ever.


:) Yeah, me too, but this is for clarity's sake.

>
> > BTW, the floatbar doesn't need "Visible buttons" and "Customize Fizz"
> > buttons [...] Customization of both the toolbar and the floatbar would be
> > done either through drag-and-drop from/to
> > the ellipsis menu or in "Options."
>
>
> I was unaware of your idea to be able to drag and drop. my thought with
> this
> was to have the visible buttons be like they are when you click on the down
> arrows at the end of a tool bar that we have now, that would you would be
> able to check and uncheck items that would be in the floatbar.


> as for the customize floatbar, I just though sence you are in the
> floatbars'
> ellipsis menu it would be nice to have a menu item that would direct you to
> the floatbars' customize section in options. instead of going to view
> > customize interface > floatbar > text/table/picture floatbar and then
> customizing the floatbar. with customize being in the ellipsis menu you
> could jump straight to customizing the bar.


I understand what you mean, but, really, customization of bars is not
something that the user should do often -- I really want there to be as
little need for customization as possible (and if there's need, then it
should be a one-time thing). The drag-and-drop functionality is there if a
user needs to use a command or two a bit more often than usual, but of
course it's not suited for large-scale customization.

So the reason why the "Customize" button is not there is simply because,
just like "Open" or "Print as PDF", this is not a button you should click
often during a document session. If this button was really needed, then
there would be something with the interface, since it wouldn't be smooth.


> my brother absolutly hates the curent "floatbar" like menu that LibO has
> now. his frustration is that it gets in the way and is not helpful at all.
> most of the time the curent menu is placed infrunt of what you
> are manipulating (e.g. text, tables, bullets/numbering).

Exactly -- that's been my experience too.

> you have made this
> better by making it pop up above the thing your are manipulating. I saw
> that
> M$ Office has another interesting solution that I wanted to know what you
> thought of it. in M$O there is a radius around the menu in which if you go
> out of the circle the menu diapers and when you get closer to it reapers.
>

I know about this, but I don't really see the advantage of it. I actually
think it's more of a distraction than a feature (I used to spend some time
just moving the cursor to and fro when trying it out).

>
> > I'd keep comments inline, like now, separate from the Navigator.
> Navigator
> > should present a quickly browseable list of comments.
>
>
> im trying to understand what you are talking about here.  I read in your
> blog that there wold be comments in the navigator, though may be you were
> talking about something else[1].


Actually, I think I was thinking about something exactly like you mocked up
back then, but then I changed my mind. I think comments should be inline
because they move with the document and they pertain to the content in the
document. Navigator's role was always just to provide a quick summary of all
the stuff in the document, whether it be headings or images, and it should
do the same for comments.


> my idea for the comment system would react
> much as it does not being inline. I just used the navigator to show them.
> as
> you scroll up and down your page so would the comments in the navigator.
>  this way you could collapse your comments, because some times when editing
> a document the comments get annoying.

We could simply add a collapse/show icon to the comment sidebar.

>


> I just added a previous, next, and ellpsis to my mock up[2].
>
> Nice -- adds consistency (my original plan was to have "Add page" just
> > insert a page, but that really would be inconsistent).
>
>
> that was my thought when I saw it in the mock up.
>
>
> > I tweaked it a bit -- removed the "section break" bit, since it's really
> a
> > button just for a new
> > page (page break)[...]
>
>
> while with your context idea, a section break may not make seance in this
> menu. but if you know the awesomeness of a section break, I think that this
> should stay. may be add just section break back in as a check box so
> that unchecked would be just page brake. so you would have it just be in
> the
> insert menu. I think that this should be placed back in just as a quick
> section brake. besides most people will continue pressing return as a page
> brake and may only click on the add page button if they want to add some
> new
> page style.
>

Alternatively, "Add page" could be moved to the left and there could be a
new "Add section" button on the right.

>
>
> > [...], and the "header/footer" bit, since that should be addable
> > just by (double?)-clicking in the general header/footer area (this bit of
> > behavior isn't in LibO yet).
>
>
> I like double clicking to create header/footer's in M$O and hope it gets
> included in future versions of LibO.  but if you agree with me in
> retearning
> section brake to this menu then a quick Header/Footer option would be
> great.


Apple's Pages use single clicking to create headers/footers. I think that if
this feature is obvious enough (and I think it will be, if we do it right),
then there'll be no need for the entry in the "Add page" pop-up.

>


> > Plus I added a "Page number" item.
>
>
> what would this do? add page multiple pages of what ever the user chooses
> as
> the page layout.
>

No, it changes the page number -- the equivalent of today's "Change page
number", without the hardship of having to choose a style, then check a
checkbox, and type a number. The entry box is, of course, preloaded with the
actual page number.

>
> > Some notes: the function toolbar shouldn't really contain a box for
> > symbols. The main toolbar is really just a single-line thing. Plus,
> symbols
> > should be inserted through the insertbar (the toolbox on the left) or
> > through Insert>Special character.
>
>
> well when you are creating a formula you would need to keep all these
> things
> together. to have them in separate would be quite annoying.  I agree that
> there should be a special character in the Insert menu. to have a separate
> insertbar for Special characters would not make since, if we where to keep
> it in the formula bar.
>

I don't use formulas much (well, actually, the only time I've ever tried to
use them, I got fed up because they didn't act like normal inline text, and
I never used them again), so I can't really say what's best for someone who
does use them on a regular basis, but I actually like the current optional
Elements box, for when using the insertbar is too tedious (as that's at
least two clicks for every symbol).

I'd like to keep insert commands out of the contextbar. But I might return
to the topic of replacing the Elements box if I get a good idea.

>
> Great -- I'm happy to have someone excited about this project.
> > I'm just wondering whether it will have any impact, whether this will
> > really
> > be worked on...
>
>
> I'm happy just to be working with you on this. I have been wanting to
> improve the UI for some time, and I did not know how to get a hold of you.
>  this better make an impact, if the UI does not change soon(as in
> yesterday)
> there is no point in doing any of this. banners, webdesign, icons all of
> the
> this stuff the design team is pointless unless people are atracced to the
> Office suite and want to use it. we have a better Office suite but it looks
> like crap right now, and people wont give it a second glance because of
> this
> even if the suite is free or not. we need to get the Dev team working in
> our
> direction, if we don't they will just keep adding feature that no one will
> know is there because its hidden in the background and fixing bugs. I like
> how you purposed mile stones in your blog. they need to get the software to
> the point where they can start on your mile stones. that way this can
> be implemented soon.


My sentiments exactly.
I hope to update a few things on my blog soon, including those milestones,
if I have the time to.

> Notes on your new UI Mock up
>
> over all I like the new Mock up. it seems to be missing some stuff that the
> old one did, and is much cleaner then it was too.


It's missing stuff, I know -- I didn't really feel like converting
everything to the new model. The search box in the menu is gone because LibO
is multiplatform and this box wouldn't work in Ubuntu or Mac OS X. It's
definitely an issue I still have to address. (As part of the compromise, the
Navigator now gets a big search box.) The menus also changed because of
this.

> I will add some of my
> stuff to this one and then upload it to my gmail docs soon.
>
> where does the app menu go. the firs layer of Citrus, it is just off to the
> side of the app and does not seem to go with any thing.

Since the mockup uses Gnome's Adwaita theme, it also features Gnome's
application menu, which is not attached to the window, but rather to the
Gnome panel.
In Windows, this menu would probably be attached to the title bar, similar
to the Firefox menu. Mac OS X already has an applications menu. And on other
platforms, this would probably be just another menu in the menubar.

> and how do you get
> to the styles menu?
>
(You mean the styles sidebar, right?)
View > Styles
(It doesn't have a dedicated button in the UI because you have the Styles
dropdown in the contextbar.)

links
> [1]
> http://clickortap.wordpress.com/category/mockups/citrus-ui/
> [2]
>
> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNNGJkZDY0ZDItOGNhNi00MzMzLThlNTUtZWU2ZmIyMmYyZmJi&hl=en_US
>
> 2011/9/24 Andrew Pullins <[hidden email]>

> Mirek,
>
> why did you switch the order in the text bar. the font name, font size,
> Bold, Italic.... are now on the right of right justify, center, left
> justify, Justify (and for calc top, center, down).


> just wondering.
>
When doing the contextbar for Calc, it just occured to me that the order
should follow hierarchy: container first, content second.

> Andrew



>
> 2011/9/23 Mirek M. <[hidden email]>
>
> > Hi Andrew,
> >
> > 2011/9/13 Andrew Pullins <[hidden email]>
> >
> > > Mirek, and anyone interested
> > >
> > > I have read your blog and found your Citrus.svg, I started looking
> > through
> > > it.  Once I figured out how things worked, I started modifying some
> > things
> > > here and there. Not knowing how best to get these modifications to you.
> > Now
> > > that I have your attention I have uploaded my version of Citrus.svg to
> > > Google docs.  I would like to hear your ideas on my changes.
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNNGJkZDY0ZDItOGNhNi00MzMzLThlNTUtZWU2ZmIyMmYyZmJi&hl=en_US
> > > <https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v
> > >
> >
> πd=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNNGJkZDY0ZDItOGNhNi00MzMzLThlNTUtZWU2ZmIyMmYyZmJi&hl=en_US>
> > >
> >
> > Wow, cool. It's great to see someone playing with this -- makes me feel
> all
> > warm inside :)
> >
> > I hope you like the changes that I have made. Here is a list of some
> things
> > > I
> > > have done. My main focus was on Calc since you have not done anything
> on
> > > it.
> > > I wanted to see how it would look.
> > >
> >
> > Actually, I sort of made a quick draft of Calc a while ago, but then
> > dropped
> > it, because I really don't use Calc (except in extremely rare situations)
> > and because Calc is a bit different from the three applications that I
> have
> > mocked up (e.g. it's not presentation based, Calc files are meant to be
> > viewed in the same view as they're edited in, whereas Impress files are
> > viewed fullscreen, Writer files on paper or in PDF, ...). Nevertheless,
> > I've
> > revived it a bit, incorporated it into a new Citrus SVG file:
> >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_RBf0YVtxzkYWFmYjM3YmQtYmU3OC00Zjg3LWE0MzctMTljNDJmY2NlOGM3
> >
> > >
> > > Fizz: Made one for tables.
> >
> >
> > Thanks :). I'm calling fizz the floatbar now, for less confusion (I'm
> > suffixing everything that holds commands with -bar now).
> > BTW, the floatbar doesn't need "Visible buttons" and "Customize Fizz"
> > buttons, as the ellipsis menu shows ALL the remaining commands pertaining
> > to
> > the object (it shows everything the menu does). Customization of both the
> > toolbar and the floatbar would be done either through drag-and-drop
> from/to
> > the ellipsis menu or in "Options."
> >
> > >
> > > Changed Fizz so that there is Text and Tables.
> > > Changed Ellipses to go with tables.
> > >
> > >
> > > Writer:
> > >
> > > Menus:
> > >
> > > Documents: Now have a rename and move - this will allow the user to
> > rename
> > > or move the document while still writing it so they do not need to get
> > out
> > > of the document before they may do this.
> > >
> >
> > +1
> >
> > >
> > > Navigator:
> > >
> > >  Comments: Made comments in the navigator - the comment navigator moves
> > the
> > > page to the left and hides the page beyond the margins. They will
> appear
> > > next to the page where the in-text comment lies, much like they do now.
> I
> > > do
> > > not know how to use the navigator buttons at the bottom, so I hid that.
> > >
> > I'd keep comments inline, like now, separate from the Navigator.
> Navigator
> > should present a quickly browseable list of comments.
> >
> > >
> > > Page Bottom:
> > >
> > >  Added to the add page button. Now it shows a preview like impress.
> Like
> > > impress you will be able to select the page format, but also whether
> the
> > is
> > > a page or section break, whether it will have headers/footers or not,
> and
> > > what orientation it is in.  I did not add this but selecting headers
> will
> > > change the icons to look like they have headers/footers, same goes with
> > > orientation.
> > >
> >
> > Nice -- adds consistency (my original plan was to have "Add page" just
> > insert a page, but that really would be inconsistent). I tweaked it a bit
> > --
> > removed the "section break" bit, since it's really a button just for a
> new
> > page (page break), and the "header/footer" bit, since that should be
> > addable
> > just by (double?)-clicking in the general header/footer area (this bit of
> > behavior isn't in LibO yet). Plus I added a "Page number" item.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Calc:
> > >
> > > and all of calc is new.  I did all the icons vary quick so they my not
> > look
> >
> > that good.
> > >
> > > Some notes: the function toolbar shouldn't really contain a box for
> > symbols. The main toolbar is really just a single-line thing. Plus,
> symbols
> > should be inserted through the insertbar (the toolbox on the left) or
> > through Insert>Special character.
> >
> > >
> > > in the mock up I added * to the begenning of what I changed of yours.
> > hope
> > > you like it.
> >
> >
> > Great -- I'm happy to have someone excited about this project.
> > I'm just wondering whether it will have any impact, whether this will
> > really
> > be worked on...
> >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Andrew Pullins <[hidden email]
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Mirek
> > > >
> > > > I have been wanting to talk to you for some time about your designs.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Right now, I also don't have an internet connection at home -- I
> > > >> should have it soon, but right now I have to resort to visiting the
> > > public
> > > >> library for internet.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > that sucks I have had to do that for a while too.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> > He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
> > > >> > when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
> > > >> > Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
> > > >> >
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
> > > >> >
> > > >> > That's a very old proposal -- I definitely wouldn't stand by it
> now.
> > > at
> > > >> the time, I was smitten with Microsoft's ribbon, and, instead of
> > looking
> > > >> at what in the ribbon is an improvement over the old way of working
> > > (like
> > > >> better
> > > >
> > > >  organization or contextuality) and what was a detriment (e.g. too
> much
> > > >> space
> > > >> taken up, having to click tabs to get to functionality that should
> be
> > > >> available up front, ...), I just flatly wanted OOo to emulate the
> > ribbon
> > > >> (knee-jerk reaction).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I was suprised by this, because I read your blog and know that you do
> > not
> > > > like the ribbon system. I still like the ribbon UI for it is so much
> > > better
> > > > than the curent LO UI. I was in the middle of designing a UI for LO
> > that
> > > I
> > > > made for a program that I was making(you can see them here
> > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Android272).  but once I
> found
> > > > your UI consepts and got the contextualty of them, I feel in love,
> and
> > > > started changing little parts of my program to suport the citus UI.
> > > >
> > > > I have been working of a moc citrus Calc. I saw that you do not have
> > Calc
> > > > done at all and have a lot of impress done. do you just not use Calc,
> > and
> > > > are more inspired with impress.  I love what you have done.
> > > >
> > > > cheers
> > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > It is something I would say that we need to be working
> > > >
> > > >  > > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other
> than
> > > >> bugs
> > > >> > > getting fixed, what else is going on?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no
> > > chance
> > > >> > to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons).
> > > Instead,
> > > >> > it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> > > >> > Development, QA, ...
> > > >> >
> > > >> > There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the
> > UI
> > > -
> > > >> > it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider
> > > which
> > > >> > has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a
> > > position
> > > >> > for larger changes.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Cheers,
> > > >> > Christoh
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --
> > > >> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> > > [hidden email]
> > > >> > Problems?
> > > >> >
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > >> > Posting guidelines + more:
> > > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > >> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > > >> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and
> cannot
> > be
> > > >> > deleted
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Cheng-Chia Tseng <
> > [hidden email]
> > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I admire "Citrus UI" too.
> > > >> If we never try, we will never know it fits or not.
> > > >>
> > > >> I am curious about how GNOME Shell or Unity shell gets their new
> > design
> > > >> done.
> > > >> We defenetly can learn some experience from these projects.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Mirek M. <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >> > Hi Andrew, Christoph,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 2011/9/6 Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> Hi Andrew!
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Am Montag, den 05.09.2011, 20:16 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
> > > >> >> > Hello all,
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Does any one know what has happened to the guy designing the
> > > "Citrus
> > > >> UI."
> > > >> >>  I
> > > >> >> > have been trying to get a hold of him so we can collaborate on
> > his
> > > UI
> > > >> >> > designs. I am really interested in making LibreOffice look
> good,
> > > and
> > > >> his
> > > >> >> > designs are great.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Yep, there are some terrific ideas - he was (and I hope: is) with
> > us
> > > >> >> since quite some time.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Yes, I'm still here, though I don't have the time to read through
> > all
> > > >> the
> > > >> > e-mails. Right now, I also don't have an internet connection at
> home
> > > --
> > > >> I
> > > >> > should have it soon, but right now I have to resort to visiting
> the
> > > >> public
> > > >> > library for internet.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
> > > >> >> when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
> > > >> >> Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
> > > >> >>
> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> That's a very old proposal -- I definitely wouldn't stand by it
> > now.
> > > At
> > > >> the
> > > >> > time, I was smitten with Microsoft's ribbon, and, instead of
> looking
> > > at
> > > >> what
> > > >> > in the ribbon is an improvement over the old way of working (like
> > > better
> > > >> > organization or contextuality) and what was a detriment (e.g. too
> > much
> > > >> space
> > > >> > taken up, having to click tabs to get to functionality that should
> > be
> > > >> > available up front, ...), I just flatly wanted OOo to emulate the
> > > ribbon
> > > >> > (knee-jerk reaction). I was also unconcerned with ease of use and
> an
> > > >> > uninterrupted workflow, instead giving importance to
> > feature-richness
> > > >> (hence
> > > >> > the tabs, the "tattoed" scroll bar, etc.). And, looking back at
> the
> > > >> > proposal, it's a bit hard to read, no?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > In summary, please disregard that proposal :)
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> > It is something I would say that we need to be working
> > > >> >> > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other
> than
> > > >> bugs
> > > >> >> > getting fixed, what else is going on?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no
> > > >> chance
> > > >> >> to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons).
> > > Instead,
> > > >> >> it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> > > >> >> Development, QA, ...
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of
> the
> > UI
> > > -
> > > >> >> it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider
> > > which
> > > >> >> has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a
> > > position
> > > >> >> for larger changes.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Cheers,
> > > >> >> Christoh
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> --
> > > >> >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> > > [hidden email]
> > > >> >> Problems?
> > > >> >>
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > >> >> Posting guidelines + more:
> > > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > >> >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > > >> >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and
> cannot
> > > be
> > > >> >> deleted
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --
> > > >> > Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
> > > >> > A: http://five.sentenc.es
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --
> > > >> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> > > [hidden email]
> > > >> > Problems?
> > > >>
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > >> > Posting guidelines + more:
> > > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > >> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > > >> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and
> cannot
> > be
> > > >> deleted
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Sincerely,
> > > >> by Cheng-Chia Tseng
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> > [hidden email]
> > > >> Problems?
> > > >>
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > >> Posting guidelines + more:
> > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > > >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot
> be
> > > >> deleted
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> > > Problems?
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > > deleted
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
> > A: http://five.sentenc.es
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>



--
Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
A: http://five.sentenc.es

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted