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Stefan Weigel Stefan Weigel
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Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*

Harold,

Am 08.12.2010 11:58, schrieb Harold Fuchs:

> Interesting that the Support tab doesn't mention
> - forums
> - technical FAQs
> - installation instructions
> - documentation
> - system requirements

The site is under construction. What do you expect?

You are invited to contribute! Please follow these steps:

* subscribe to the website mailing list
  http://www.documentfoundation.org/contribution/#lists

* register on the website
  https://test.libreoffice.org/ForumMemberProfile/register
  (in case you see an SSL warning, refer to
  "http://wiki.cacert.org/BrowserClients

* apply for your role as author or publisher on the website mailing
  list

> I'm also fascinated, having retired from software development 10
> years ago and after all the articles and theses that have been
> written on the subject for at least 30 years, that the industry is
> still operating on the basis of "let's get the code out there and
> worry about the documentation later".

This is not the industry. This is a project of volunteers.

Stefan

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*

In reply to this post by Harold Fuchs
Hi Harold, :-)

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 18:58, Harold Fuchs <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Interesting that the Support tab doesn't mention
> - forums
> - technical FAQs
> - installation instructions
> - documentation
> - system requirements

In that "technical FAQs" section, can you give me more details about
what you envision there?

Got ideas for the categories? Got ideas for specific questions in those FAQs?

David Nelson

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Johannes A. Bodwing Johannes A. Bodwing
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Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*

In reply to this post by Stefan Weigel
Sorry people,
> ...
>
> As long as the LibO website is under construction you will find it
> here: http://www.test.libreoffice.org

But I think that's not the first page for www.libreoffice.org at this
state of the project.
Why?
LO and TDF are at the beginning. So many people don't know what it is
and why they should use it.
In this phase the Start-Side or Home-Side has to be created under the
points of marketing, as a "Wow"-Side.
That means as a rough example - one clicks www.libreoffice.org and gets:


Welcome to LibreOffice

the Office-Collection that improves your work in

writing texts
drawing *Get It !* [as a Link to the Download-Side]
spreadsheet
and many more



Than follows the rest:
More Information about LibreOffice [as a Link]
What is The Document Foundation doing [as a Link]
Involving, Supporting eg.


Later on, when LO is widely established, could a Start-Side like the
actual follow.
But now LO needs a clever marketing-based Start-Side to "catch" the user.
A side that makes clear: that's just the right Office-Suite for me and
for what I am doing.

Please don't copy OOo. In my opinion they did and do the same failure,
to make a more functional side but no side to inspire people for their
Suite.

Regards,
Johannes







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Johannes A. Bodwing Johannes A. Bodwing
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Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*

Sorry people 2,

> Sorry people,
>> ...
>

*Get It!* two lines below should stand on the right side of the website,
big and as a Link.

> writing texts
> drawing *Get It !* [as a Link to the Download-Side]
> spreadsheet
> and many more
>
>
>
> Than follows the rest:
> ...

Johannes


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bedipp bedipp
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Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*

In reply to this post by Johannes A. Bodwing
Hi Johannes, *

Johannes A. Bodwing schrieb:

> Sorry people,
>> ...
>>
>> As long as the LibO website is under construction you will find it
>> here: http://www.test.libreoffice.org
>
> But I think that's not the first page for www.libreoffice.org at this
> state of the project.
> Why?
> LO and TDF are at the beginning. So many people don't know what it is
> and why they should use it.
> In this phase the Start-Side or Home-Side has to be created under the
> points of marketing, as a "Wow"-Side.

Please propose your valid ideas on the website mailing list or - if you
have some spare time - perhaps you could work on the site directly (with
the built-in editor SilverStripe is quite easy to be used).

Any help is highly appreciated!

Best regards

Bernhard

[... removed the proposal ...]

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Johannes A. Bodwing Johannes A. Bodwing
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Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*

Hello,

> ...
>
> Johannes A. Bodwing schrieb:
>> Sorry people,
>>> ...
>>>
>>> As long as the LibO website is under construction you will find it
>>> here: http://www.test.libreoffice.org
>>
>> But I think that's not the first page for www.libreoffice.org at this
>> state of the project.
>> Why?
>> LO and TDF are at the beginning. So many people don't know what it is
>> and why they should use it.
>> In this phase the Start-Side or Home-Side has to be created under the
>> points of marketing, as a "Wow"-Side.
>
> Please propose your valid ideas on the website mailing list or - if
> you have some spare time - perhaps you could work on the site directly
> (with the built-in editor SilverStripe is quite easy to be used).

I've thought it is discussed in this thread. But OK, I'll look at the
website mailing list next days.


But another Sorry - I think this point ("Wow") has to be discussed
basicly, not only for the website. Because the style of the website will
just follow the fundamental goals of LO/TDF.

And for that the very first question is:
Stands LO in the competition with every other Office-Suite? Or will it
be a work for fun till the fun is gone and than there will be something
else (like it was said some times ago on OOo in a greater dispute)?

If LO accepts this challenge (competition with other Suites), than
everything is based on the next question:
What has to do that LO becomes the best Office Suite, better than the
rest and for a long time? That so many people as possible are sure of LO
is the best they could find for Office-Work in private and business or
profession.

And this leads automaticly to the most useful website-design, to the
best marketing, the features we need, how many money, how many people
and so on.

In my opinion OOo ignored this to long. And LO copies some of that.

Johannes

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Johannes A. Bodwing Johannes A. Bodwing
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Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*

In reply to this post by bedipp
Hi Bernhard,
> ...

>
> Please propose your valid ideas on the website mailing list or - if
> you have some spare time - perhaps you could work on the site directly
> (with the built-in editor SilverStripe is quite easy to be used).

I have no spare time, but I'll try to squeeze it into 24 hours of the
day - where can I find this website mailing list?

Thank You,
Johannes

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*

In reply to this post by bedipp
Hi Bernard, :-)

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 04:35, Bernhard Dippold
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Please propose your valid ideas on the website mailing list or - if you have
> some spare time - perhaps you could work on the site directly (with the
> built-in editor SilverStripe is quite easy to be used).

Please do not suggest to people to start editing the site content at
this particular time. I am currently producing the initial content in
liaison with Italo Vignoli, and we will never get finished if
everybody jumps in wildly... The site can be ready in just a very few
days now.

Before, other members of the website team had weeks and weeks to work
on it, and did practically nothing. So please just allow Italo and I
to get this finished quickly? It will be better for the community as a
whole. ;-) If so, thank you for your understanding. ;-)

David Nelson

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bedipp bedipp
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Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*

In reply to this post by Johannes A. Bodwing
Hi Johannes, *

Johannes A. Bodwing schrieb:

> Hi Bernhard,
>> ...
>
>>
>> Please propose your valid ideas on the website mailing list or - if
>> you have some spare time - perhaps you could work on the site directly
>> (with the built-in editor SilverStripe is quite easy to be used).
>
> I have no spare time, but I'll try to squeeze it into 24 hours of the
> day - where can I find this website mailing list?

On http://www.documentfoundation.org/contribution/ :

# [hidden email]: Discussions on maintaining and enhancing our
website, wiki, planet and other infrastructure
Subscription: [hidden email]
Digest subscription: [hidden email]
Archives: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/
Mail-Archive.com: http://www.mail-archive.com/website@.../
GMANE:
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.website

Best regards

Bernhard

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italovignoli italovignoli
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Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*

In reply to this post by Johannes A. Bodwing
> Johannes A. Bodwing December 8, 2010 10:20 PM:

> Stands LO in the competition with every other Office-Suite? Or will it
> be a work for fun till the fun is gone and than there will be something
> else (like it was said some times ago on OOo in a greater dispute)?

Of course.

> If LO accepts this challenge (competition with other Suites), than
> everything is based on the next question:
> What has to do that LO becomes the best Office Suite, better than the
> rest and for a long time? That so many people as possible are sure of LO
> is the best they could find for Office-Work in private and business or
> profession.

First, being known, and when I say being know I mean being exposed at
least a dozen times per year to any prospect user, as this is the number
of times they read about MS Office.

When you reach this first target, then we can discuss about other
targets. In Italy, when we have reached this objective we have realized
that we were at 15% market share, with 50 volunteers, no money at all,
the product that you know and a lame web site.

Something similar happened in France and Germany.

> And this leads automaticly to the most useful website-design, to the
> best marketing, the features we need, how many money, how many people
> and so on.
>
> In my opinion OOo ignored this to long. And LO copies some of that.

TDF will have some money, but not enough money to compete with MS
Office, some people, but not as many as MS Office, some features, but
features are just bullshit for 80% of users (provided that LO has all
the features needed by this 80% of users, which is already true), but we
will have more fun, more enthusiasm and more brainpower than MS.

TDF will be a case history for guerrilla marketing, not for marketing
warfare.

--
Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation
E-mail: [hidden email]
Mobile +39.348.5653829 - VoIP: +39.02.320621813
Skype: italovignoli - GTalk: [hidden email]

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italovignoli italovignoli
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Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*

> Johannes A. Bodwing December 8, 2010 10:20 PM:

> Stands LO in the competition with every other Office-Suite? Or will it
> be a work for fun till the fun is gone and than there will be something
> else (like it was said some times ago on OOo in a greater dispute)?

Of course.

> If LO accepts this challenge (competition with other Suites), than
> everything is based on the next question:
> What has to do that LO becomes the best Office Suite, better than the
> rest and for a long time? That so many people as possible are sure of LO
> is the best they could find for Office-Work in private and business or
> profession.

First, being known, and when I say being know I mean being exposed at
least a dozen times per year to any prospect user, as this is the number
of times they read about MS Office.

When you reach this first target, then we can discuss about other
targets. In Italy, when we have reached this objective we have realized
that we were at 15% market share, with 50 volunteers, no money at all,
the product that you know and a lame web site.

Something similar happened in France and Germany.

> And this leads automaticly to the most useful website-design, to the
> best marketing, the features we need, how many money, how many people
> and so on.
>
> In my opinion OOo ignored this to long. And LO copies some of that.

TDF will have some money, but not enough money to compete with MS
Office, some people, but not as many as MS Office, some features, but
features are just bullshit for 80% of users (provided that LO has all
the features needed by this 80% of users, which is already true), but we
will have more fun, more enthusiasm and more brainpower than MS.

TDF will be a case history for guerrilla marketing, not for marketing
warfare.

-- Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation
E-mail: [hidden email]
Mobile +39.348.5653829 - VoIP: +39.02.320621813
Skype: italovignoli - GTalk: [hidden email]

--
Italo Vignoli
[hidden email]
Mobile +39.348.5653829
VoIP: +39.02.320621813
Skype: italovignoli

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bedipp bedipp
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Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*

In reply to this post by Johannes A. Bodwing
Hi Johannes, all,

Johannes A. Bodwing schrieb:
> [...]
>
> But another Sorry - I think this point ("Wow") has to be discussed
> basicly, not only for the website. Because the style of the website will
> just follow the fundamental goals of LO/TDF.

The basic goals of the foundation are presented on the website:
http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/
First paragraph "Our mission"

For LibO there is the "Next Decade Manifesto":
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Next_Decade_Manifesto
but we already started a discussion about our goals in two threads here
and on the marketing mailing list (linked from the contribute web page
like the website list).

Please search for subjects like "Briefing" and "LibO Mission Statement".

These discussions have been postponed until the present workload
(release of LibO 3.3.0) has been reduced, but after that we'll discuss
these topics with major impact on our marketing, branding and general
positioning (including product shaping).

Thorsten Wilms already created a wiki page about this topic.
See his mail on the marketing list:
<http://go.mail-archive.com/rQTf6g7Dp54w3LrTWBywEOFW2l8=>

If you want, you can add your thoughts there,
so they will not be forgot when we start this discussion...

Best regards

Bernhard

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Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*

In reply to this post by italovignoli
> Johannes A. Bodwing December 8, 2010 10:20 PM:

> Stands LO in the competition with every other Office-Suite? Or will it
> be a work for fun till the fun is gone and than there will be something
> else (like it was said some times ago on OOo in a greater dispute)?

Of course.

> If LO accepts this challenge (competition with other Suites), than
> everything is based on the next question:
> What has to do that LO becomes the best Office Suite, better than the
> rest and for a long time? That so many people as possible are sure of LO
> is the best they could find for Office-Work in private and business or
> profession.

First, being known, and when I say being know I mean being exposed at
least a dozen times per year to any prospect user, as this is the number
of times they read about MS Office.

When you reach this first target, then we can discuss about other
targets. In Italy, when we have reached this objective we have realized
that we were at 15% market share, with 50 volunteers, no money at all,
the product that you know and a lame web site.

Something similar happened in France and Germany.

> And this leads automaticly to the most useful website-design, to the
> best marketing, the features we need, how many money, how many people
> and so on.
>
> In my opinion OOo ignored this to long. And LO copies some of that.

TDF will have some money, but not enough money to compete with MS
Office, some people, but not as many as MS Office, some features, but
features are just bullshit for 80% of users (provided that LO has all
the features needed by this 80% of users, which is already true), but we
will have more fun, more enthusiasm and more brainpower than MS.

TDF will be a case history for guerrilla marketing, not for marketing
warfare.

-- Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation
E-mail: [hidden email]
Mobile +39.348.5653829 - VoIP: +39.02.320621813
Skype: italovignoli - GTalk: [hidden email]

-- Italo Vignoli
[hidden email]
Mobile +39.348.5653829
VoIP: +39.02.320621813
Skype: italovignoli

--
Italo Vignoli
[hidden email]
Mobile +39.348.5653829
VoIP: +39.02.320621813
Skype: italovignoli

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Italo Vignoli
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bedipp bedipp
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Re: Bring up libreoffice.org website to world *now*

In reply to this post by davidnelson
Hi David, all,

David Nelson schrieb:

> Hi Bernard, :-)
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 04:35, Bernhard Dippold
> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Please propose your valid ideas on the website mailing list or - if you have
>> some spare time - perhaps you could work on the site directly (with the
>> built-in editor SilverStripe is quite easy to be used).
>
> Please do not suggest to people to start editing the site content at
> this particular time.

Sorry for the "or" - but Johannes' replies already showed, that he wants
to subscribe to the website list at first, where I'd like to see his
valuable comments.

I still hope that he might become a member of the group working on the
website on the long term.

> I am currently producing the initial content in
> liaison with Italo Vignoli,[...]The site can be ready in just a very few
> days now.

That's great - I'm looking forwards to seeing your structure and content.

With real content in the web pages the team will hopefully overcome the
time with just a few contributions (mainly by people helping out from
the native lang website teams) to the active pages, while the main work
has been done in the background preparing the Drupal structure.

Best regards

Bernhard

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