in response ...

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anne-ology anne-ology
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in response ...

       ... this message was waiting for 2 days to be released to the list;

              when I opened it to see if it was junk or not, I was
surprised to see that someone had posted a query.

       Since I thought I might be able to help, I responded to it.

       I responded to the original message, merely deleting the non-list
data,
              so I really do not understand what thread was broken.

       with all sincerity, & confused by your attitude,



From: Brian Barker <[hidden email]>
Date: Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Access to Libre Office files
To: Anne Noname <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Charles-H. Schulz" <[hidden email]>


At 09:43 30/01/2017 -0600, Anne Noname wrote:

> From: Gareth Walters <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 12:11:05 +0000 (GMT)
>> Subject: [libreoffice-users] Lacl of Access to Libre Office files
>>
>> Good morning. ...
>>
>
> maybe I can help - ...
>

You are doing it again!

Please, when you are asked to moderate an incoming message, your choices
are to permit it to be posted or not. Whichever you choose, you may, of
course, wish to reply yourself. But if you reply to a message that you
allow to go to the list, you need to reply to the copy that you will then
get from the list, not the original secret copy you received. Doing it the
wrong way wrecks the threading and confuses people. You owe it to them to
get it right.

Would you release the original message, please?

Brian Barker - privately

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TomD TomD
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Re: in response ...

Hi :)
It is not always possible to "do the right thing" so it is good that
Anne-ology was able to "handle it" with courteous intelligence.  Clearly
no-one else had figured out how to deal with it as it had been languishing
so long.  So it is good that she was able "to go the extra mile".  :)

So, Anne-ology is due many thanks and congratulations but instead receives
admonishment from one who has not dared to take on such work himself,
although he does do a lot of good work in another area, that is also
somewhat under-appreciated.  Instead of criticising each other for the
hidden roles they play I think we need more recognition of the good work
done by so many people who are all (imo) unsung heroes&heroines.

So, many thanks to Anne-ology, Toki, Brian and others - and apologies to
Anne-ology for the ignorant critcism she was subjected to.
Many, many regards from
Tom :)




On 31 January 2017 at 13:29, toki <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 01/30/2017 07:13 PM, anne-ology wrote:
>
> >        with all sincerity, & confused by your attitude,
>
> Good list moderators _NEVER_ post messages to the list, except when the
> question specifically is about their moderation practices.
>
> More pointedly, the ideal list moderator is one whom the majority of
> list members have never heard of, and are utterly unaware of their
> presence on the list.
>
> jonathon
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
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> deleted
>

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Charles-H. Schulz Charles-H. Schulz
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Re: in response ...

Hello Tom,

It seems that the problem Brian highlighted is a bit different and is a
recurring one. Anne-ology does not seem to understand her exact role as
a list moderator, even after years of being in that position. What she
has to do is first to approve the message so that it can reach the
mailing list. Then, she or anyone else here may answer the original
poster in public on the list.

It is only about the 25th time this happens, but Anne-ology does not
seem to want to take any sort of input, however cordial and friendly,
into account. You are however correct that Anne-ology did indeed aptly
identify the unmoderated post that had been sitting in the moderation
queue for several days, and for this she of course did the right thing
and should be thanked for that.

Best,

Charles.


Le 31.01.2017 14:54, Tom Davies a écrit :

> Hi :)
> It is not always possible to "do the right thing" so it is good that
> Anne-ology was able to "handle it" with courteous intelligence.  
> Clearly
> no-one else had figured out how to deal with it as it had been
> languishing
> so long.  So it is good that she was able "to go the extra mile".  :)
>
> So, Anne-ology is due many thanks and congratulations but instead
> receives
> admonishment from one who has not dared to take on such work himself,
> although he does do a lot of good work in another area, that is also
> somewhat under-appreciated.  Instead of criticising each other for the
> hidden roles they play I think we need more recognition of the good
> work
> done by so many people who are all (imo) unsung heroes&heroines.
>
> So, many thanks to Anne-ology, Toki, Brian and others - and apologies
> to
> Anne-ology for the ignorant critcism she was subjected to.
> Many, many regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
>
> On 31 January 2017 at 13:29, toki <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 01/30/2017 07:13 PM, anne-ology wrote:
>>
>> >        with all sincerity, & confused by your attitude,
>>
>> Good list moderators _NEVER_ post messages to the list, except when
>> the
>> question specifically is about their moderation practices.
>>
>> More pointedly, the ideal list moderator is one whom the majority of
>> list members have never heard of, and are utterly unaware of their
>> presence on the list.
>>
>> jonathon
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-
>> unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more:
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>>

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anne-ology anne-ology
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Re: in response ...

In reply to this post by anne-ology
       rather than responding to the fact that one query had been waiting
for a couple days before being added to the list,
          this conversation has become inanely silly.

       The way I handle e-mails is to eliminate all the wasteful space,
including all the computer gibberish, which otherwise makes the e-mail next
to impossible to read after a while as the margins become ever wider & the
text ever narrower.

       And since I was the first to respond to that e-mail, there was no
'thread' to follow - other than to show it came from a non-list member.




From: James E Lang <[hidden email]>
Date: Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ...
To: anne-ology <[hidden email]>


The tool you use to send email replies does not create References or
In-Reply-To headers. That is what breaks threads. The best email tools use
those headers to create a hierarchical view of a thread.

--
Jim



From: anne-ology <[hidden email]>
To: Brian <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:14
Subject: [libreoffice-users] in response ...

       ... this message was waiting for 2 days to be released to the list;

              when I opened it to see if it was junk or not, I was
surprised to see that someone had posted a query.

       Since I thought I might be able to help, I responded to it.

       I responded to the original message, merely deleting the non-list
data,
              so I really do not understand what thread was broken.

       with all sincerity, & confused by your attitude,



From: Brian Barker <[hidden email]>
Date: Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Access to Libre Office files
To: Anne Noname <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Charles-H. Schulz" <[hidden email]>


At 09:43 30/01/2017 -0600, Anne Noname wrote:

> From: Gareth Walters <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 12:11:05 +0000 (GMT)
>> Subject: [libreoffice-users] Lacl of Access to Libre Office files
>>
>> Good morning. ...
>>
>
> maybe I can help - ...
>

You are doing it again!

Please, when you are asked to moderate an incoming message, your choices
are to permit it to be posted or not. Whichever you choose, you may, of
course, wish to reply yourself. But if you reply to a message that you
allow to go to the list, you need to reply to the copy that you will then
get from the list, not the original secret copy you received. Doing it the
wrong way wrecks the threading and confuses people. You owe it to them to
get it right.

Would you release the original message, please?

Brian Barker - privately

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anne-ology anne-ology
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Re: in response ...

In reply to this post by anne-ology
       well, when I think the list might be interested in what's going on,
I cc to the list;
          in that way all have the chance to be informed.



From: toki <[hidden email]>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ...
To: [hidden email]



On 01/30/2017 07:13 PM, anne-ology wrote:

>        with all sincerity, & confused by your attitude,



Good list moderators _NEVER_ post messages to the list, except when the
question specifically is about their moderation practices.

More pointedly, the ideal list moderator is one whom the majority of
list members have never heard of, and are utterly unaware of their
presence on the list.

jonathon

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anne-ology anne-ology
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Re: in response ...

In reply to this post by anne-ology
       Thank you.

       Just one point which you - & others - seem to be unaware: if I had
merely accepted this 2-day old message then it could have been even longer
before the questioner received a reply.  Granted some of you may spend all
your time on the computer, but I'm in that group which turns off the
computer to attend to many off-line activities.  I feel that if someone has
a query, to which I might be able to help, then it's my duty to do so
without further delay.

       With deepest apologies if my duty-bound attitude offends some,



From: Charles-H. Schulz <[hidden email]>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ...
To: [hidden email]


Hello Tom,

It seems that the problem Brian highlighted is a bit different and is a
recurring one. Anne-ology does not seem to understand her exact role as a
list moderator, even after years of being in that position. What she has to
do is first to approve the message so that it can reach the mailing list.
Then, she or anyone else here may answer the original poster in public on
the list.

It is only about the 25th time this happens, but Anne-ology does not seem
to want to take any sort of input, however cordial and friendly, into
account. You are however correct that Anne-ology did indeed aptly identify
the unmoderated post that had been sitting in the moderation queue for
several days, and for this she of course did the right thing and should be
thanked for that.

Best,

Charles.



Le 31.01.2017 14:54, Tom Davies a écrit :

> Hi :)
> It is not always possible to "do the right thing" so it is good that
> Anne-ology was able to "handle it" with courteous intelligence.  Clearly
> no-one else had figured out how to deal with it as it had been languishing
> so long.  So it is good that she was able "to go the extra mile".  :)
>
> So, Anne-ology is due many thanks and congratulations but instead receives
> admonishment from one who has not dared to take on such work himself,
> although he does do a lot of good work in another area, that is also
> somewhat under-appreciated.  Instead of criticising each other for the
> hidden roles they play I think we need more recognition of the good work
> done by so many people who are all (imo) unsung heroes&heroines.
>
> So, many thanks to Anne-ology, Toki, Brian and others - and apologies to
> Anne-ology for the ignorant critcism she was subjected to.
> Many, many regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
>
> On 31 January 2017 at 13:29, toki <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 01/30/2017 07:13 PM, anne-ology wrote:
>>
>> >        with all sincerity, & confused by your attitude,
>>
>> Good list moderators _NEVER_ post messages to the list, except when the
>> question specifically is about their moderation practices.
>>
>> More pointedly, the ideal list moderator is one whom the majority of
>> list members have never heard of, and are utterly unaware of their
>> presence on the list.
>>
>> jonathon
>>
>>
>>
>>

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V Stuart Foote V Stuart Foote
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Re: in response ...

Anne,

anne-ology wrote
       Just one point which you - & others - seem to be unaware: if I had
merely accepted this 2-day old message then it could have been even longer
before the questioner received a reply.  Granted some of you may spend all
your time on the computer, but I'm in that group which turns off the
computer to attend to many off-line activities.  I feel that if someone has
a query, to which I might be able to help, then it's my duty to do so
without further delay.

       With deepest apologies if my duty-bound attitude offends some,
The issue is never that you take the time to respond, rather it is frequently that your responses are not processed correctly by the maillist  (ML)  servers.

The correct action as moderator IS to approve or reject a message, and allow it to turn through the ML

If a response is necessary--do so against the now correctly processed ML thread.

That is mostly what folks continue complaining about--not that you help, just that you need a better understanding of the proceedural context of moderation.

If you are unable to follow the process--your effectiveness as a moderator as well as a contributor to the ML is hampered. Perhaps you should consider resigning the moderator role, and then help with ML threads that have been correctly moderated and distributed.

Stuart

Philip Jackson Philip Jackson
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Re: in response ...

On 31/01/17 18:54, V Stuart Foote wrote:
> The issue is never that you take the time to respond, rather it is
> frequently that your responses are not processed correctly by the maillist
> (ML)  servers
.
Indeed.  Anne-ology's last three messages all carry the same subject
line when I receive them but they have created 3 new threads. I have
never received an email signed Anne-ology thro the list that was joined
to an existing thread. They always appear to break the existing threads.

Maybe Anne-ology just doesn't do 'threading'.

Philip

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Tanstaafl Tanstaafl
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Re: in response ...

In reply to this post by anne-ology
On Wed Feb 01 2017 00:13:29 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time), toki
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 01/31/2017 05:21 PM, anne-ology wrote:
>> well, when I think the list might be interested in what's going on,
>> I cc to the list;
>
> On any of the lists I moderate, or used to moderate, doing that would
> get me off the list, and my moderation duties revoked, faster than a New
> York Second.

While I agree with that comment...

> The appropriate sequence is:
> * Approve the message;
> * If nobody else has responded 48 hours later, then, if able to do so,
> address the issue(s) in the message;

... there is simply no legitimate reason that a moderator should have to
wait 48 hours before replying to a list message just because they
approved it. They are free to respond immediately - but only to the LIST
message.

Anne's mistake is she is replying to the message in the moderation queue
before she approves it.

Also, she mentioned something about editing a message before approving
it. That would also get your list moderator status revoked in my book.
Either approve the message or reject it, but never ever edit it then
approve it.

> One of the reasons that selecting good list moderators is difficult, is
> that the job, in essence, requires the moderator to stop participating
> in the list.

Baloney. They can perform moderator duties with one hat, and participate
with another.

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Tanstaafl Tanstaafl
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Re: in response ...

On Wed Feb 01 2017 14:20:18 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time), toki
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> The theory, supported by  research, is that active moderator
> participation, results in a reduction in participation by list members,
> with the highest impact being amongst the low-frequency posters.

Link(s) please?

Regardless, you do know that using identities, it would be entirely
achievable for a moderator to interact on the list and 99% of the list
participants wouldn;t know they were the same person.

> Well, no.

Well, yes.

> What happens when the moderator is an active participant on
> the list, is that their messages tend to be seen as "authoritative" by
> people who can browse list messages.

Only if they are posting as the moderator. If they post as a simple
participant, then most won't even know they are a moderator.

> One side effect, is that questioning information provided by the list
> moderator becomes difficult/awkward.

Not at all, as long as they are civil, and the moderator can hold their
god complex in check.

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Virgil Arrington Virgil Arrington
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RE: in response ...

In reply to this post by Tanstaafl
This would assume that posters know that someone is a moderator. It never occured to me that Anne is a moderator here.

Virgil



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: toki <[hidden email]>
Date: 2/1/17 2:21 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ...

On 02/01/2017 02:03 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:

>> * If nobody else has responded 48 hours later, then, if able to do so,
>> address the issue(s) in the message;
> ... there is simply no legitimate reason that a moderator should have to
> wait 48 hours before replying to a list message just because they

The theory, supported by  research, is that active moderator
participation, results in a reduction in participation by list members,
with the highest impact being amongst the low-frequency posters.

>> One of the reasons that selecting good list moderators is difficult, is
>> that the job, in essence, requires the moderator to stop participating
>> in the list.
>
> Baloney. They can perform moderator duties with one hat, and participate with another.

Well, no. What happens when the moderator is an active participant on
the list, is that their messages tend to be seen as "authoritative" by
people who can browse list messages.  One side effect, is that
questioning information provided by the list moderator becomes
difficult/awkward.

jonathon

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anne-ology anne-ology
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Re: in response ...

In reply to this post by anne-ology
       Do you know what moderation means?


       moderation := "the avoidance of excess or extremes, especially in
one's behavior or political opinions"



From: toki <[hidden email]>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ...
To:
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>


On 01/31/2017 01:54 PM, Tom Davies wrote:

> It is not always possible to "do the right thing" so it is good that

The correct thing is to _approve_ the message, not _respond_ within the
message. As such, it is _always_ possible to do the right thing.

That is basic moderation 101

jonathon

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Charles-H. Schulz Charles-H. Schulz
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Re: in response ...

Anne-ology,

You are right, that is the general meaning of moderation. However, when
we talk about moderation here, we talk about mailing list moderation.
When we talk about moderator, we refer to a mailing list moderator, not
to concepts such as panel moderators. A mailing list moderator has a
specific role, which somewhat relates to the one of a moderator but is
much more strict: it has been described a bit earlier but let me restate
it: A mailing list moderator is in charge of the management of the
mailing list. This role mostly includes moderating emails, which means:
- finding legitimate emails of posters who are not subscribed to the
mailing list and moderating them as in publishing them to the list (NOT
REPLYING TO THEM FIRST)
- rejecting incoming illegitimate emails, such as spam.

Another role of the list moderator usually (but not always) involves:
- adding or unsubscribing email addresses per request of their owner
- helping mailing list subscribers with similar tasks or technical
issues directly related to their mailing list subscription
- reminding everyone to be courteous
- following the netiquette (http://www.netiquette.org) and reminding
mailing list subscribers to comply with it.

Among all these points only the last two may relate somewhat more the
broader meaning of "moderation".

In short your daily task is not one moderation but rather one of
technical management. It also implies that you know how to post properly
and understand the concept of mailing list discussion threads. From my
perspective it seems you are not familiar with the concept,or that you
perhaps have no desire to become acquainted with these notions which
would be problematic for a mailing list moderator. Hence, there is no
need to "clean" any "cruft from an email. Signs, mentions of date, time,
etc. in an email are part of its information and may form a part of the
thread. We need that. I notice you have managed to start a new thread
"Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ..." that is not integrated with
the original thread. This is not correct and you seem to do this for
each one of your reply.

Below is one page belonging to another community that may be helpful to
you:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Hope this helps,

Charles
(who, by top-posting, does not comply to the netiquette).



Le 02.02.2017 01:56, anne-ology a écrit :

> Do you know what moderation means?
>
>
>        moderation := "the avoidance of excess or extremes, especially
> in
> one's behavior or political opinions"
>
>
>
> From: toki <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ...
> To:
> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>
>
> On 01/31/2017 01:54 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
>
>> It is not always possible to "do the right thing" so it is good that
>
> The correct thing is to _approve_ the message, not _respond_ within the
> message. As such, it is _always_ possible to do the right thing.
>
> That is basic moderation 101
>
> jonathon

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Peter Hillier-Brook Peter Hillier-Brook
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Re: in response ...

Charles, one can only admire your patience, but isn't it time to put a
stop to this nonsense with anne-ology (who I'm sure is not the
delightful Maureen, despite her use of the "-ology" suffix).

Who has the authority to remove her from the moderator role, for which
she seems singularly un-qualified?

On 02/02/17 13:51, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

> Anne-ology,
>
> You are right, that is the general meaning of moderation. However, when
> we talk about moderation here, we talk about mailing list moderation.
> When we talk about moderator, we refer to a mailing list moderator, not
> to concepts such as panel moderators. A mailing list moderator has a
> specific role, which somewhat relates to the one of a moderator but is
> much more strict: it has been described a bit earlier but let me restate
> it: A mailing list moderator is in charge of the management of the
> mailing list. This role mostly includes moderating emails, which means:
> - finding legitimate emails of posters who are not subscribed to the
> mailing list and moderating them as in publishing them to the list (NOT
> REPLYING TO THEM FIRST)
> - rejecting incoming illegitimate emails, such as spam.
>
> Another role of the list moderator usually (but not always) involves:
> - adding or unsubscribing email addresses per request of their owner
> - helping mailing list subscribers with similar tasks or technical
> issues directly related to their mailing list subscription
> - reminding everyone to be courteous
> - following the netiquette (http://www.netiquette.org) and reminding
> mailing list subscribers to comply with it.
>
> Among all these points only the last two may relate somewhat more the
> broader meaning of "moderation".
>
> In short your daily task is not one moderation but rather one of
> technical management. It also implies that you know how to post properly
> and understand the concept of mailing list discussion threads. From my
> perspective it seems you are not familiar with the concept,or that you
> perhaps have no desire to become acquainted with these notions which
> would be problematic for a mailing list moderator. Hence, there is no
> need to "clean" any "cruft from an email. Signs, mentions of date, time,
> etc. in an email are part of its information and may form a part of the
> thread. We need that. I notice you have managed to start a new thread
> "Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ..." that is not integrated with
> the original thread. This is not correct and you seem to do this for
> each one of your reply.
>
> Below is one page belonging to another community that may be helpful to
> you:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Charles
> (who, by top-posting, does not comply to the netiquette).
>
>
>
> Le 02.02.2017 01:56, anne-ology a écrit :
>> Do you know what moderation means?
>>
>>
>>        moderation := "the avoidance of excess or extremes, especially in
>> one's behavior or political opinions"
>>
>>
>>
>> From: toki <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ...
>> To:
>> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>>
>>
>> On 01/31/2017 01:54 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
>>
>>> It is not always possible to "do the right thing" so it is good that
>>
>> The correct thing is to _approve_ the message, not _respond_ within the
>> message. As such, it is _always_ possible to do the right thing.
>>
>> That is basic moderation 101
>>
>> jonathon
>


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remygauthier remygauthier
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Re: in response ...

Euh, I think this thread should be cut and closed. It is becoming more
and more a senseless discussion on the good or not so good ways of
moderating a mailing list and as well, and this is what I find
particularly disturbing, an Anne-ology bashing session. 

Thank you.

RG.

Le jeudi 02 février 2017 à 17:16 +0000, Peter Hillier-Brook a écrit :
> > Charles, one can only admire your patience, but isn't it time to put
a
> stop to this nonsense with anne-ology (who I'm sure is not the
> delightful Maureen, despite her use of the "-ology" suffix).
>
> > Who has the authority to remove her from the moderator role, for
which
> she seems singularly un-qualified?
>
> On 02/02/17 13:51, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> > Anne-ology,
> >
> > > > You are right, that is the general meaning of moderation. However,
when
> > > > we talk about moderation here, we talk about mailing list
moderation.
> > > > When we talk about moderator, we refer to a mailing list moderator,
not
> > > > to concepts such as panel moderators. A mailing list moderator has
a
> > > > specific role, which somewhat relates to the one of a moderator but
is
> > > > much more strict: it has been described a bit earlier but let me
restate
> > it: A mailing list moderator is in charge of the management of the
> > > > mailing list. This role mostly includes moderating emails, which
means:
> > > > - finding legitimate emails of posters who are not subscribed to
the
> > > > mailing list and moderating them as in publishing them to the list
(NOT
> > REPLYING TO THEM FIRST)
> > - rejecting incoming illegitimate emails, such as spam.
> >
> > > > Another role of the list moderator usually (but not always)
involves:
> > > > - adding or unsubscribing email addresses per request of their
owner
> > - helping mailing list subscribers with similar tasks or technical
> > issues directly related to their mailing list subscription
> > - reminding everyone to be courteous
> > > > > > - following the netiquette (http://www.netiquette.org) and
reminding
> > mailing list subscribers to comply with it.
> >
> > > > Among all these points only the last two may relate somewhat more
the
> > broader meaning of "moderation".
> >
> > In short your daily task is not one moderation but rather one of
> > > > technical management. It also implies that you know how to post
properly
> > > > and understand the concept of mailing list discussion threads. From
my
> > > > perspective it seems you are not familiar with the concept,or that
you
> > > > perhaps have no desire to become acquainted with these notions
which
> > > > would be problematic for a mailing list moderator. Hence, there is
no
> > > > need to "clean" any "cruft from an email. Signs, mentions of date,
time,
> > > > etc. in an email are part of its information and may form a part of
the
> > > > thread. We need that. I notice you have managed to start a new
thread
> > > > "Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ..." that is not integrated
with
> > > > the original thread. This is not correct and you seem to do this
for
> > each one of your reply.
> >
> > > > Below is one page belonging to another community that may be
helpful to

> > you:
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Charles
> > (who, by top-posting, does not comply to the netiquette).
> >
> >
> >
> > Le 02.02.2017 01:56, anne-ology a écrit :
> > > Do you know what moderation means?
> > >
> > >
> > > > > >        moderation := "the avoidance of excess or extremes,
especially in

> > > one's behavior or political opinions"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > > From: toki <[hidden email]>
> > > Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:40 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ...
> > > To:
> > > > > > > > > Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> > >
> > >
> > > On 01/31/2017 01:54 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > It is not always possible to "do the right thing" so it is good
that
> > >
> > > > > > The correct thing is to _approve_ the message, not _respond_
within the
> > > message. As such, it is _always_ possible to do the right thing.
> > >
> > > That is basic moderation 101
> > >
> > > jonathon
> >
>
>

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Gordon Cooper Gordon Cooper
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Re: in response ...

+1

Gordon.


On 03/02/17 13:12, Remy Gauthier wrote:

> Euh, I think this thread should be cut and closed. It is becoming more
> and more a senseless discussion on the good or not so good ways of
> moderating a mailing list and as well, and this is what I find
> particularly disturbing, an Anne-ology bashing session.
>
> Thank you.
>
> RG.
>
> Le jeudi 02 février 2017 à 17:16 +0000, Peter Hillier-Brook a écrit :
>>> Charles, one can only admire your patience, but isn't it time to put
> a
>> stop to this nonsense with anne-ology (who I'm sure is not the
>> delightful Maureen, despite her use of the "-ology" suffix).
>>
>>> Who has the authority to remove her from the moderator role, for
> which
>> she seems singularly un-qualified?
>>
>> On 02/02/17 13:51, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
>>> Anne-ology,
>>>
>>>>> You are right, that is the general meaning of moderation. However,
> when
>>>>> we talk about moderation here, we talk about mailing list
> moderation.
>>>>> When we talk about moderator, we refer to a mailing list moderator,
> not
>>>>> to concepts such as panel moderators. A mailing list moderator has
> a
>>>>> specific role, which somewhat relates to the one of a moderator but
> is
>>>>> much more strict: it has been described a bit earlier but let me
> restate
>>> it: A mailing list moderator is in charge of the management of the
>>>>> mailing list. This role mostly includes moderating emails, which
> means:
>>>>> - finding legitimate emails of posters who are not subscribed to
> the
>>>>> mailing list and moderating them as in publishing them to the list
> (NOT
>>> REPLYING TO THEM FIRST)
>>> - rejecting incoming illegitimate emails, such as spam.
>>>
>>>>> Another role of the list moderator usually (but not always)
> involves:
>>>>> - adding or unsubscribing email addresses per request of their
> owner
>>> - helping mailing list subscribers with similar tasks or technical
>>> issues directly related to their mailing list subscription
>>> - reminding everyone to be courteous
>>>>>>> - following the netiquette (http://www.netiquette.org) and
> reminding
>>> mailing list subscribers to comply with it.
>>>
>>>>> Among all these points only the last two may relate somewhat more
> the
>>> broader meaning of "moderation".
>>>
>>> In short your daily task is not one moderation but rather one of
>>>>> technical management. It also implies that you know how to post
> properly
>>>>> and understand the concept of mailing list discussion threads. From
> my
>>>>> perspective it seems you are not familiar with the concept,or that
> you
>>>>> perhaps have no desire to become acquainted with these notions
> which
>>>>> would be problematic for a mailing list moderator. Hence, there is
> no
>>>>> need to "clean" any "cruft from an email. Signs, mentions of date,
> time,
>>>>> etc. in an email are part of its information and may form a part of
> the
>>>>> thread. We need that. I notice you have managed to start a new
> thread
>>>>> "Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ..." that is not integrated
> with
>>>>> the original thread. This is not correct and you seem to do this
> for
>>> each one of your reply.
>>>
>>>>> Below is one page belonging to another community that may be
> helpful to
>>> you:
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>>
>>> Charles
>>> (who, by top-posting, does not comply to the netiquette).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 02.02.2017 01:56, anne-ology a écrit :
>>>> Do you know what moderation means?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>         moderation := "the avoidance of excess or extremes,
> especially in
>>>> one's behavior or political opinions"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> From: toki <[hidden email]>
>>>> Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:40 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ...
>>>> To:
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> On 01/31/2017 01:54 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is not always possible to "do the right thing" so it is good
> that
>>>>>>> The correct thing is to _approve_ the message, not _respond_
> within the
>>>> message. As such, it is _always_ possible to do the right thing.
>>>>
>>>> That is basic moderation 101
>>>>
>>>> jonathon
>>


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TomD TomD
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Re: in response ...

Hi :)
+1

Regards from
Tom :)

On 3 February 2017 at 01:57, gordon cooper <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> +1
>
> Gordon.
>
>
> On 03/02/17 13:12, Remy Gauthier wrote:
>
>> Euh, I think this thread should be cut and closed. It is becoming more
>> and more a senseless discussion on the good or not so good ways of
>> moderating a mailing list and as well, and this is what I find
>> particularly disturbing, an Anne-ology bashing session.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> RG.
>>
>>
>> Le jeudi 02 février 2017 à 17:16 +0000, Peter Hillier-Brook a écrit :
>>
>>> Charles, one can only admire your patience, but isn't it time to put
>>>>
>>> a
>>
>>> stop to this nonsense with anne-ology (who I'm sure is not the
>>> delightful Maureen, despite her use of the "-ology" suffix).
>>>
>>> Who has the authority to remove her from the moderator role, for
>>>>
>>> which
>>
>>> she seems singularly un-qualified?
>>>
>>> On 02/02/17 13:51, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anne-ology,
>>>>
>>>> You are right, that is the general meaning of moderation. However,
>>>>>>
>>>>> when
>>
>>> we talk about moderation here, we talk about mailing list
>>>>>>
>>>>> moderation.
>>
>>> When we talk about moderator, we refer to a mailing list moderator,
>>>>>>
>>>>> not
>>
>>> to concepts such as panel moderators. A mailing list moderator has
>>>>>>
>>>>> a
>>
>>> specific role, which somewhat relates to the one of a moderator but
>>>>>>
>>>>> is
>>
>>> much more strict: it has been described a bit earlier but let me
>>>>>>
>>>>> restate
>>
>>> it: A mailing list moderator is in charge of the management of the
>>>>
>>>>> mailing list. This role mostly includes moderating emails, which
>>>>>>
>>>>> means:
>>
>>> - finding legitimate emails of posters who are not subscribed to
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>
>>> mailing list and moderating them as in publishing them to the list
>>>>>>
>>>>> (NOT
>>
>>> REPLYING TO THEM FIRST)
>>>> - rejecting incoming illegitimate emails, such as spam.
>>>>
>>>> Another role of the list moderator usually (but not always)
>>>>>>
>>>>> involves:
>>
>>> - adding or unsubscribing email addresses per request of their
>>>>>>
>>>>> owner
>>
>>> - helping mailing list subscribers with similar tasks or technical
>>>> issues directly related to their mailing list subscription
>>>> - reminding everyone to be courteous
>>>>
>>>>> - following the netiquette (http://www.netiquette.org) and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> reminding
>>
>>> mailing list subscribers to comply with it.
>>>>
>>>> Among all these points only the last two may relate somewhat more
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>
>>> broader meaning of "moderation".
>>>>
>>>> In short your daily task is not one moderation but rather one of
>>>>
>>>>> technical management. It also implies that you know how to post
>>>>>>
>>>>> properly
>>
>>> and understand the concept of mailing list discussion threads. From
>>>>>>
>>>>> my
>>
>>> perspective it seems you are not familiar with the concept,or that
>>>>>>
>>>>> you
>>
>>> perhaps have no desire to become acquainted with these notions
>>>>>>
>>>>> which
>>
>>> would be problematic for a mailing list moderator. Hence, there is
>>>>>>
>>>>> no
>>
>>> need to "clean" any "cruft from an email. Signs, mentions of date,
>>>>>>
>>>>> time,
>>
>>> etc. in an email are part of its information and may form a part of
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>
>>> thread. We need that. I notice you have managed to start a new
>>>>>>
>>>>> thread
>>
>>> "Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ..." that is not integrated
>>>>>>
>>>>> with
>>
>>> the original thread. This is not correct and you seem to do this
>>>>>>
>>>>> for
>>
>>> each one of your reply.
>>>>
>>>> Below is one page belonging to another community that may be
>>>>>>
>>>>> helpful to
>>
>>> you:
>>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>> (who, by top-posting, does not comply to the netiquette).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 02.02.2017 01:56, anne-ology a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Do you know what moderation means?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         moderation := "the avoidance of excess or extremes,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> especially in
>>
>>> one's behavior or political opinions"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: toki <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:40 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] in response ...
>>>>> To:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> On 01/31/2017 01:54 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not always possible to "do the right thing" so it is good
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> that
>>
>>> The correct thing is to _approve_ the message, not _respond_
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> within the
>>
>>> message. As such, it is _always_ possible to do the right thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is basic moderation 101
>>>>>
>>>>> jonathon
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
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Mike Adams Mike Adams
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Re: in response ...

In reply to this post by Philip Jackson
On 01/02/2017, Philip Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 31/01/17 18:54, V Stuart Foote wrote:
>> The issue is never that you take the time to respond, rather it is
>> frequently that your responses are not processed correctly by the maillist
>>
>> (ML)  servers
> .
> Indeed.  Anne-ology's last three messages all carry the same subject
> line when I receive them but they have created 3 new threads. I have
> never received an email signed Anne-ology thro the list that was joined
> to an existing thread. They always appear to break the existing threads.
>
> Maybe Anne-ology just doesn't do 'threading'.
>

Personally I've had to relearn how to reply as a list member, GMail
makes it more difficult to reply to the list... but not impossible.

I remember the years and days of the top post versus bottom post
arguments. Silly excessively drawn out arguments.

I also remember managing a Mailman list during the days when half it's
members were on dial-up and advising one of my team members to be
careful about putting full size camera pics into her posts. It wasn't
until the day she put twenty pics in one E-Mail that she learned that
lesson, as well as finding the list no longer of value as half the
members wanted to unsubscribe.

This may indeed be a moderator training issue, that is probably up to
the TDF team to decide. Else this is probably turning into another
silly, excessively drawn out discussion which i have added to with
silly old man reminiscences. Muahaha

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