[libreoffice-accessibility] Fwd: [TechTalk] nvda doesn't tell me which cells are selected in libreoffice calc.

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[libreoffice-accessibility] Fwd: [TechTalk] nvda doesn't tell me which cells are selected in libreoffice calc.

Hello. I wanted to forward the following thread from the NVDA discussion
list. This has to do with a bug where NVDA is not announcing which cells
in Calc are being selected when using the shift key along with arrow
keys. A similar issue also exists with JAWS.




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] nvda doesn't tell me which cells are selected
in libreoffice calc.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 13:52:37 +1100
From: Quentin Christensen <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]



Just confirming that as per the discussion on the linked issue -
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6897 
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- it's not that we're ignoring it, but that we need LibreOffice to
expose what is happening so we can report it.  We have had virtually no
success in getting any traction on issues with LibreOffice.

For the record, I found this issue reported against LibreOffice back in
2016 which is still listed as "New"...
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100086 
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If anyone has any contacts with LibreOffice developers, do please feel
free to get them in touch with us...

Quentin.

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 11:51 PM Gene <[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

    And is the responsibility with NVDA or with the program itself? Did the
    program work properly in this respect in the past?  Did the same
    version of
    the program work properly with an earlier version of NVDA?  It may
    be that
    NVDA can be made to work properly with this feature of Libre Office,
    but
    various programs included with Libre Office have long not been properly
    accessible.  I don't know how the program sends such information to
    NVDA and
    it may require the developers of Libre Office to address the problem
    or it
    may take unreasonable time and resources for NVDA to correct
    something that
    is a fault of the program, given the priorities and resource
    limitations you
    spoke of.

    Gene
    -----Original Message-----
    From: David Goldfield
    Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 7:45 AM
    To: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
    Subject: Re: [TechTalk] nvda doesn't tell me which cells are
    selected in
    libreoffice calc.

    Do we know that NV Access is ignoring this issue? We need to consider
    that they have many bugs in the queue and that these issues need to be
    carefully prioritized and, as we say in the industry, groomed based on
    many factors. How severe is the bug? How many users might it affect?
    What is the level of effort needed in order to determine what is causing
    the issue and what is needed to correct it? How many developers do we
    have and which one(s) should be assigned to address it and what is their
    current bandwidth and workload? Don't get me wrong; I am not downplaying
    the severity of this issue. Not receiving audible or possibly Braille
    feedback while selecting cells in a spreadsheet is an accessibility
    defect and it should be addressed. I'm only saying that there are many
    factors which determine how, when or if it can/will be addressed? I
    think that we should be very careful in making statements such as saying
    that a company is ignoring an issue just because it hasn't been
    addressed or commented on in a Github ticket. There may have been
    discussions about prioritizing LibreOffice accessibility issues that we
    as end users wouldn't necessarily know about.

    David Goldfield,
    Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
    JAWS Certified, 2019

    WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
    <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C443576a6947c4de967ff08d870b56c53%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637383271802962775%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Yuu9jhSxbKyDemmfgEM9t6WJMwrCFwlFLPvBFyvPaJU%3D&reserved=0>

    On 10/14/2020 8:24 AM, Norman wrote:
     > You're right on the version number. using version 7.0.2.2
     >
     > Searching github, this seems to be a long standing issue that
    nvaccess is
     > ignoring.
     >
     >
     >
    https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F6897&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&amp;sdata=DWoE2%2BSH7X5j1fzfr%2Bso6WSV2aVt7Du8sNr%2Fe4t6XPg%3D&amp;reserved=0
    <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F6897&data=04%7C01%7C%7C443576a6947c4de967ff08d870b56c53%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637383271802972771%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=NdhzW80%2FoQX9wvHliUH%2FFUae%2Fbk9yY0tlsn8M89n1YM%3D&reserved=0>
     >
     > I'm not on the nvda list, but this would be worth reporting there.
     >
     >
     > Thanks.
     >
     >
     >
     > On 10/14/2020 8:17 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
     >> > Latest means latest, right?
     >>
     >> On one level, yes. However, please consider that someone who
    says "I am
     >> using the latest version of NVDA might sincerely believe that he
    is using
     >> the very latest version but may actually be using an earlier
    version
     >> without realizing it. He may not have been aware that one or more
     >> versions had been subsequently released since the version that he
     >> installed or which may have been installed for him. In fact,
    since a new
     >> version of NVDA was just released yesterday I can't assume that
    the user
     >> might actually be aware of this fact. Therefore, a user who
    tells me that
     >> he is using the latest version of a program doesn't actually
    verify to me
     >> that we're talking about the latest version. Specifying version
    numbers
     >> removes this ambiguity.
     >> For LibreOffice, the latest version is 7.0.2. Is this the one
    you are
     >> running?
     >>
     >> David Goldfield,
     >> Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
     >> JAWS Certified, 2019
     >>
     >>
    https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&amp;sdata=Xz2G6ktNvhU7mU2kQbM6AJKszmhkhFXIgww2%2BWFjF6k%3D&amp;reserved=0
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     >>
     >> On 10/14/2020 7:55 AM, Norman wrote:
     >>> Latest means latest, right?
     >>>
     >>> nvda 2020.3 and libreoffice 7.2.2
     >>>
     >>> I'll check github.
     >>>
     >>>
     >>> Thanks.
     >>>
     >>>
     >>> On 10/14/2020 6:01 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
     >>>> Norman, while I don't write this to be unkind could you tell
    us the
     >>>> exact version of NVDA and of LibreOffice you are using. I know
    you said
     >>>> that you are using the latest version of NVDA but that doesn't
    tell us
     >>>> exactly which version you are using.
     >>>> I can confirm that this is an issue using NVDA 2020.3 and
    LibreOffice
     >>>> Calc 7.0.1. I would encourage you to search the NV Access
    Github to see
     >>>> if this has been filed as a bug. If it has not please do
    report this if
     >>>> you have not already done so.
     >>>>
     >>>> David Goldfield,
     >>>> Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
     >>>> JAWS Certified, 2019
     >>>>
     >>>>
    https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&amp;sdata=Xz2G6ktNvhU7mU2kQbM6AJKszmhkhFXIgww2%2BWFjF6k%3D&amp;reserved=0
    <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C443576a6947c4de967ff08d870b56c53%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637383271802992758%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nma7o%2Fr%2Fm3h%2FWouc7Q5wQR5QM9ybzZQyyO6EquYZ718%3D&reserved=0>
     >>>>
     >>>> On 10/14/2020 5:37 AM, Norman wrote:
     >>>>> Hello all.
     >>>>>
     >>>>> As the subject line says, if using libreoffice with the
    latest version
     >>>>> of nvda nvda doesn't report which cells i'm selecting if i
    hold down
     >>>>> shift and use the arrow keys.
     >>>>>
     >>>>>
     >>>>> Does anyone know how to fix this?
     >>>>>
     >>>>>
     >>>>>
     >>>>>
     >>>>>
     >>>>>
     >>>>>
     >>>>
     >>>>
     >>>>
     >>>>
     >>>>
     >>>>
     >>>
     >>>
     >>>
     >>>
     >>>
     >>
     >>
     >>
     >>
     >>
     >>
     >
     >
     >
     >
     >












--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org
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