[libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ;-)

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Eike Rathke-2 Eike Rathke-2
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[libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ;-)

Hi,

some Slavic languages and Russian and Greek (afaik) use possessive
genitive case month names when used in conjunction with the day of
month. For this I added support in the i18n framework and number
formatter. There's a new optional element <GenitiveMonths> within the
<Calendar> element of the i18npool/source/localedata/data/*.xml files,
following the <MonthsOfYear> element. Its content is similar to the
already existing <MonthsOfYear> element and has <DefaultAbbrvName> and
<DefaultFullName> elements. If the <GenitiveMonths> element is not
specified, the content of <MonthsOfYear> will be taken. For technical
details see also
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/i18npool/source/localedata/data/locale.dtd

If localizers hurry up ;-) and provide patches to their locales' data
files you can get it in before the 3.5 branch-off.

In the past for some locales it was decided to use possessive month
names instead of month nouns because usually they are displayed along
with the day of month. This should be changed, effectively by renaming
the <MonthsOfYear> element to <GenitiveMonths> and inserting a new
<MonthsOfYear> element before with month nouns.

In a recent build you can check use of month noun versus possessive
month in the number formatter if you compiled your new locale data with
a make in i18npool (note: execute make twice to be sure the new data is
available, it seems that due to some shortcoming in the current makefile
setup some dependencies are missing). If the format code contains month
(MMM or MMMM) and day of month (D or DD) the possessive name is
displayed, else (no D or DD code) the noun is displayed.

  Eike

P.S.: Reply-To [hidden email] is set.

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Michael Bauer Michael Bauer
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ;-)

That's great Eike. Just a minor point, perhaps in might make sense to
change "gentive" to "inflected" or something as I don't think every
language requires the same case. Gaelic requires the partitive for
instance and there are probably others. Not that it matters that much
what we're calling it, I guess, as I can fill the genitive field with a
partitive all the same ;)

Michael



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Mihkel Tõnnov Mihkel Tõnnov
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ;-)

In reply to this post by Eike Rathke-2
2011/11/19 Eike Rathke <[hidden email]>

> Hi,
>
> some Slavic languages and Russian and Greek (afaik) use possessive
> genitive case month names when used in conjunction with the day of
> month. For this I added support in the i18n framework and number
> formatter. There's a new optional element <GenitiveMonths> within the
> <Calendar> element of the i18npool/source/localedata/data/*.xml files,
> following the <MonthsOfYear> element. Its content is similar to the
> already existing <MonthsOfYear> element and has <DefaultAbbrvName> and
> <DefaultFullName> elements. If the <GenitiveMonths> element is not
> specified, the content of <MonthsOfYear> will be taken. For technical
> details see also
>
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/i18npool/source/localedata/data/locale.dtd
>
> If localizers hurry up ;-) and provide patches to their locales' data
> files you can get it in before the 3.5 branch-off.
>
> In the past for some locales it was decided to use possessive month
> names instead of month nouns because usually they are displayed along
> with the day of month. This should be changed, effectively by renaming
> the <MonthsOfYear> element to <GenitiveMonths> and inserting a new
> <MonthsOfYear> element before with month nouns.
>
> In a recent build you can check use of month noun versus possessive
> month in the number formatter if you compiled your new locale data with
> a make in i18npool (note: execute make twice to be sure the new data is
> available, it seems that due to some shortcoming in the current makefile
> setup some dependencies are missing). If the format code contains month
> (MMM or MMMM) and day of month (D or DD) the possessive name is
> displayed, else (no D or DD code) the noun is displayed.
>
> Where exactly is this going to be used -- Calc's date-formatted cells,
Writer's date-fields, ...?
And will it be strictly one way or the other, or will users be able to
choose which form (nominative/inflected) they want in a given context?
I ask because in Estonian both forms (and more :P ) could be used,
depending on sentence.

Regards,
Mihkel of the Estonian l10n team

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Harri Pitkänen Harri Pitkänen
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ; -)

On Saturday 19 November 2011, Mihkel Tõnnov wrote:

> 2011/11/19 Eike Rathke <[hidden email]>
> > In a recent build you can check use of month noun versus possessive
> > month in the number formatter if you compiled your new locale data with
> > a make in i18npool (note: execute make twice to be sure the new data is
> > available, it seems that due to some shortcoming in the current makefile
> > setup some dependencies are missing). If the format code contains month
> > (MMM or MMMM) and day of month (D or DD) the possessive name is
> > displayed, else (no D or DD code) the noun is displayed.
> >
> > Where exactly is this going to be used -- Calc's date-formatted cells,
>
> Writer's date-fields, ...?
> And will it be strictly one way or the other, or will users be able to
> choose which form (nominative/inflected) they want in a given context?
> I ask because in Estonian both forms (and more :P ) could be used,
> depending on sentence.

Similar problem with Finnish. We need to use genitive or partitive depending
on whether the month name comes before or after the day of month. So you can
write the date for today either as

  "marraskuun 19. 2011" (genitive) or
  "19. marraskuuta 2011" (partitive)

Currently this is not much of a problem for us since using spelled (as opposed
to numeric) months is quite uncommon. We can also work around the problem by
using custom date formats: MMMM"n" for genitive and MMMM"ta" for partitive
month name. This happens to be possible because all month names are inflected
from nominative to genitive or partitive with exactly same suffix.

This workaround would no longer work if all date formats containing day of
month would automatically substitute MMMM with genitive form. Thus we probably
should not add <GenitiveMonths> for Finnish at this point. But the feature is
nice anyway and with a small extension (support for partitive forms) could
make our date formats much easier to work with.

Harri

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Joan Montané Joan Montané
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ; -)

El 19 de novembre de 2011 21:12, Harri Pitkänen <[hidden email]> ha escrit:

> On Saturday 19 November 2011, Mihkel Tõnnov wrote:
> > 2011/11/19 Eike Rathke <[hidden email]>
> > > In a recent build you can check use of month noun versus possessive
> > > month in the number formatter if you compiled your new locale data with
> > > a make in i18npool (note: execute make twice to be sure the new data is
> > > available, it seems that due to some shortcoming in the current
> makefile
> > > setup some dependencies are missing). If the format code contains month
> > > (MMM or MMMM) and day of month (D or DD) the possessive name is
> > > displayed, else (no D or DD code) the noun is displayed.
> > >
> > > Where exactly is this going to be used -- Calc's date-formatted cells,
> >
> > Writer's date-fields, ...?
> > And will it be strictly one way or the other, or will users be able to
> > choose which form (nominative/inflected) they want in a given context?
> > I ask because in Estonian both forms (and more :P ) could be used,
> > depending on sentence.
>
> Similar problem with Finnish. We need to use genitive or partitive
> depending
> on whether the month name comes before or after the day of month. So you
> can
> write the date for today either as
>
>  "marraskuun 19. 2011" (genitive) or
>  "19. marraskuuta 2011" (partitive)
>
> Currently this is not much of a problem for us since using spelled (as
> opposed
> to numeric) months is quite uncommon. We can also work around the problem
> by
> using custom date formats: MMMM"n" for genitive and MMMM"ta" for partitive
> month name. This happens to be possible because all month names are
> inflected
> from nominative to genitive or partitive with exactly same suffix.
>
> This workaround would no longer work if all date formats containing day of
> month would automatically substitute MMMM with genitive form. Thus we
> probably
> should not add <GenitiveMonths> for Finnish at this point. But the feature
> is
> nice anyway and with a small extension (support for partitive forms) could
> make our date formats much easier to work with.
>
> Harri
>
>
Hi all,

It's not related with inflective forms, but something similar needed in
Catalan, and maybe in other languages like French or Italian.

In Catalan it's usual to use the long date form "3 de setembre de 2011"
(3rd of September of 2011, day of month of year), and other similar long
date forms using the preposition "de" (of) in front of month and year. This
form can be build with a custom date format using: D "de" MMMM "de" YYYY,
but it's not perfect, because the preposition "de" is contracted in front
of some months to "d' ", so there are 3 months were "de" should be changed
to "d' ".

Some examples, 1st of each month, from January to December, of 2011:

1 de gener de 2011
1 de febrer de 2011
1 de març de 2011
1 d'abril de 2011
1 de maig de 2011
1 de juny de 2011
1 de juliol de 2011
1 d'agost de 2011
1 de setembre de 2011
1 d'octubre de 2011
1 de novembre de 2011
1 de desembre de 2011


What's the correct way to achieve the good format in these cases?

Note: The "de" preposition in front of year can also be contracted in some
cases, but the last year in past was 11, and the first year in future will
be 11000. So, we have time to achieve the perfect date format, :)


Joan Montané

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Eike Rathke-2 Eike Rathke-2
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ;-)

In reply to this post by Michael Bauer
Hi Michael,

On Saturday, 2011-11-19 16:16:43 +0000, Michael Bauer wrote:

> That's great Eike. Just a minor point, perhaps in might make sense
> to change "gentive" to "inflected" or something as I don't think
> every language requires the same case.

Maybe, but it is referred to as genitive months / case / dates in other
documentation, so I thought sticking to that would be a good idea.

> Gaelic requires the partitive
> for instance and there are probably others. Not that it matters that
> much what we're calling it, I guess, as I can fill the genitive
> field with a partitive all the same ;)

Hopefully, if not please raise your hand :)

  Eike

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Eike Rathke-2 Eike Rathke-2
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ;-)

In reply to this post by Mihkel Tõnnov
Hi Mihkel,

On Saturday, 2011-11-19 19:20:05 +0200, Mihkel Tõnnov wrote:

> > If the format code contains month
> > (MMM or MMMM) and day of month (D or DD) the possessive name is
> > displayed, else (no D or DD code) the noun is displayed.
> >
> Where exactly is this going to be used -- Calc's date-formatted cells,
> Writer's date-fields, ...?

Everywhere where a numeric date value is displayed using the number
formatter's month name codes, so yes, Calc's date-formatted cells,
Writer's date fields, Chart's dates, I presume also Impress' and Base's
dates.

> And will it be strictly one way or the other, or will users be able to
> choose which form (nominative/inflected) they want in a given context?
> I ask because in Estonian both forms (and more :P ) could be used,
> depending on sentence.

This feature does not inspect sentences, it relies solely on the date
format code of the number formatter, see above.

  Eike

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Eike Rathke-2 Eike Rathke-2
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ; -)

In reply to this post by Harri Pitkänen
Hi Harri,

On Saturday, 2011-11-19 22:12:50 +0200, Harri Pitkänen wrote:

> Similar problem with Finnish. We need to use genitive or partitive depending
> on whether the month name comes before or after the day of month. So you can
> write the date for today either as
>
>   "marraskuun 19. 2011" (genitive) or
>   "19. marraskuuta 2011" (partitive)

Does this mean that Finnish actually uses three forms of month names,
nominative, genitive and partitive? fi_FI.xml contains "marraskuu" for
November, so it looks like.

Hmm.. I could add also a partitive form to locale data and use that in
the number formatter. Is the rule simply always that if the day precedes
the month the genitive is used, and if the day follows the month the
partitive is used?

Might get complicated if other locales used yet different rules.

> Currently this is not much of a problem for us since using spelled (as opposed
> to numeric) months is quite uncommon. We can also work around the problem by
> using custom date formats: MMMM"n" for genitive and MMMM"ta" for partitive
> month name. This happens to be possible because all month names are inflected
> from nominative to genitive or partitive with exactly same suffix.
>
> This workaround would no longer work if all date formats containing day of
> month would automatically substitute MMMM with genitive form. Thus we probably
> should not add <GenitiveMonths> for Finnish at this point.

Reasonably not.

> But the feature is
> nice anyway and with a small extension (support for partitive forms) could
> make our date formats much easier to work with.

I could get that in quite easily if the rule is simply what I assumed
above.

  Eike

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Eike Rathke-2 Eike Rathke-2
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ; -)

In reply to this post by Joan Montané
Hi Joan,

On Saturday, 2011-11-19 21:50:07 +0100, Joan Montané wrote:

> It's not related with inflective forms, but something similar needed in
> Catalan, and maybe in other languages like French or Italian.
>
> In Catalan it's usual to use the long date form "3 de setembre de 2011"
> (3rd of September of 2011, day of month of year), and other similar long
> date forms using the preposition "de" (of) in front of month and year. This
> form can be build with a custom date format using: D "de" MMMM "de" YYYY,
> but it's not perfect, because the preposition "de" is contracted in front
> of some months to "d' ", so there are 3 months were "de" should be changed
> to "d' ".
>
> Some examples, 1st of each month, from January to December, of 2011:
>
> 1 de gener de 2011
> 1 de febrer de 2011
> 1 de març de 2011
> 1 d'abril de 2011
> 1 de maig de 2011
> 1 de juny de 2011
> 1 de juliol de 2011
> 1 d'agost de 2011
> 1 de setembre de 2011
> 1 d'octubre de 2011
> 1 de novembre de 2011
> 1 de desembre de 2011

That looks like it would be possible to define genitive months as
"de març", "d'abril", "de maig", ... give it a try.

However, that might lose the ability to parse such dates as currently
the " de " is defined as LongDateDaySeparator, and the input is matched
against separators followed by month names. Might need some massaging in
parser code.

> Note: The "de" preposition in front of year can also be contracted in some
> cases, but the last year in past was 11, and the first year in future will
> be 11000. So, we have time to achieve the perfect date format, :)

I'm quite sure that I will not fix that in near future :)

  Eike

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Constantine Mousafiris Constantine Mousafiris
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ;-)

In reply to this post by Eike Rathke-2
Στις 19/11/2011 06:11 μμ, ο/η Eike Rathke έγραψε:
> Hi,
>
> some Slavic languages and Russian and Greek (afaik) use possessive
> genitive case month names when used in conjunction with the day of
> month.

I fully agree with Eike's remarks and I can just confirm that the use of
possessive genitive is also the case with the Greek language.

> For this I added support in the i18n framework and number
> formatter. There's a new optional element <GenitiveMonths> within the
> <Calendar> element of the i18npool/source/localedata/data/*.xml files,
> following the <MonthsOfYear> element. Its content is similar to the
> already existing <MonthsOfYear> element and has <DefaultAbbrvName> and
> <DefaultFullName> elements. If the <GenitiveMonths> element is not
> specified, the content of <MonthsOfYear> will be taken. For technical
> details see also
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/i18npool/source/localedata/data/locale.dtd
>
> If localizers hurry up ;-) and provide patches to their locales' data
> files you can get it in before the 3.5 branch-off.
I got the message! I will try to hurry up indeed!
>   Eike
>
> P.S.: Reply-To [hidden email] is set.
>


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Joan Montané Joan Montané
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ; -)

In reply to this post by Eike Rathke-2
El 20 de novembre de 2011 2:37, Eike Rathke <[hidden email]> ha escrit:

> Hi Joan,
>
> On Saturday, 2011-11-19 21:50:07 +0100, Joan Montané wrote:
>
> > It's not related with inflective forms, but something similar needed in
> > Catalan, and maybe in other languages like French or Italian.
>
> That looks like it would be possible to define genitive months as
> "de març", "d'abril", "de maig", ... give it a try.
>
> However, that might lose the ability to parse such dates as currently
> the " de " is defined as LongDateDaySeparator, and the input is matched
> against separators followed by month names. Might need some massaging in
> parser code.
>
>
Thanks for quick reply. If we define genitive months as "de març",
"d'abril",... can we access current months?  That is, when genitive or
current months forms are used?

Joan Montané

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Xuacu Saturio Xuacu Saturio
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ; -)

In reply to this post by Joan Montané
El 19/11/11 21:50, Joan Montané escribió:
> Hi all, It's not related with inflective forms, but something similar
> needed in Catalan, and maybe in other languages like French or
> Italian. [...]
Hi all

About the same for Asturian language. Months starting with a vowel use
the contracted «d'MMMM», so perhaps we could use genitives to get the
good date format in a "per month" schema.

Best regards

--
Xuacu Saturio

Sent while testing Thunderbird
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Harri Pitkänen Harri Pitkänen
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ; -)

In reply to this post by Eike Rathke-2
On Sunday 20 November 2011, Eike Rathke wrote:

> On Saturday, 2011-11-19 22:12:50 +0200, Harri Pitkänen wrote:
> > Similar problem with Finnish. We need to use genitive or partitive
> > depending on whether the month name comes before or after the day of
> > month. So you can write the date for today either as
> >
> >   "marraskuun 19. 2011" (genitive) or
> >   "19. marraskuuta 2011" (partitive)
>
> Does this mean that Finnish actually uses three forms of month names,
> nominative, genitive and partitive? fi_FI.xml contains "marraskuu" for
> November, so it looks like.

Yes. Or more precisely we have 14 forms for month names but these three are
the ones that are actually used in date expressions.

> Hmm.. I could add also a partitive form to locale data and use that in
> the number formatter. Is the rule simply always that if the day precedes
> the month the genitive is used, and if the day follows the month the
> partitive is used?

Well the genitive and partitive need to be swapped here but othewise, yes. So
the complete rule looks like this:

- If there is no day of month in the format, use nominative form for the
month.
- If the day is before month, use partitive form for the month.
- Otherwise (that is, if the day is after month) use genitive form.

These rules are valid even if there are additional words between the day and
month.

Here are some real word examples of valid Finnish date formats:

  MMMM            -> use nominative for MMMM
  MMMM YYYY       -> use nominative for MMMM
  D. MMMM YYYY    -> use partitive for MMMM
  D. "päivä" MMMM -> use partitive for MMMM
  MMMM D. YYYY    -> use genitive for MMMM
  MMMM D.         -> use genitive for MMMM
  MMMM D. "päivä" -> use genitive for MMMM

> I could get that in quite easily if the rule is simply what I assumed
> above.

It should be as simple as that and definitely a great feature for us. Has
anyone checked how this affects interoperability with Excel? I have no idea
how Excel handles date formats in localized versions but I could try to find
someone with Finnish version of Excel to do some testing.

Harri

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Andrea Pescetti Andrea Pescetti
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ; -)

In reply to this post by Joan Montané
On 19/11/2011 Joan Montané wrote:
> It's not related with inflective forms, but something similar needed in
> Catalan, and maybe in other languages like French or Italian.
> ... the long date form "3 de setembre de 2011"

Italian does not suffer from this problem; your example would be written
as "3 settembre 2011" with no need of adapting cases or inserting
prepositions, at least in the most common way of writing dates in Italian.

Regards,
   Andrea.

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Eike Rathke-2 Eike Rathke-2
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Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ; -)

In reply to this post by Eike Rathke-2
Hi Yury,

On Saturday, 2011-11-19 21:19:43 +0200, Yury Tarasievich wrote:

> Now, where do we get a template for the new format of locale?

Um.. what template? There are the i18npool/source/localedata/data/*.xml
files (see also
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/i18npool/source/localedata/data )
for each locale, and the new optional <GenitiveMonths> element goes
right after the <MonthsOfYear> element. You could copy the entire
<MonthsOfYear> element, paste it after itself, rename it to
<GenitiveMonths> (don't forget the </GenitiveMonths> closing tag as
well) and edit the month names. Then send the diff (in this case it's
only the addition of the new element, so you could send just that if
you're not familiar with git diff and such).

> Who collects the patches/datafiles?

You may send them to my address, or to the l10n list if you think some
review is needed.

Btw, it would be nice if we could keep the related discussion on the
l10n list so other localizers may participate. Added the Cc and Reply-To
[hidden email] again.

  Eike

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Eike Rathke-2 Eike Rathke-2
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ; -)

In reply to this post by Joan Montané
Hi Joan,

On Sunday, 2011-11-20 11:24:19 +0100, Joan Montané wrote:

> > That looks like it would be possible to define genitive months as
> > "de març", "d'abril", "de maig", ... give it a try.
> >
> > However, that might lose the ability to parse such dates as currently
> > the " de " is defined as LongDateDaySeparator, and the input is matched
> > against separators followed by month names. Might need some massaging in
> > parser code.
> >
> >
> Thanks for quick reply. If we define genitive months as "de març",
> "d'abril",... can we access current months?  That is, when genitive or
> current months forms are used?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "current months", is that the
month names as currently defined by the <MonthsOfYear> element? Note
that <GenitiveMonths> is an additional element and does not replace the
<MonthsOfYear> element.

In context of the parser, the parser tries to match against both,
GenitiveMonths and MonthsOfYear elements, so if MonthsOfYear specifies
the month name without the leading "de " then things should still work
if they did before, I didn't try yet.

  Eike

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Eike Rathke-2 Eike Rathke-2
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ; -)

In reply to this post by Xuacu Saturio
Hi Xuacu,

On Sunday, 2011-11-20 11:59:37 +0100, Xuacu Saturio wrote:

> About the same for Asturian language. Months starting with a vowel
> use the contracted «d'MMMM», so perhaps we could use genitives to
> get the good date format in a "per month" schema.

If "d'MMMM" is only used in a form where also the day of month is
present, then yes, that should work.

  Eike

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Joan Montané Joan Montané
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ; -)

In reply to this post by Eike Rathke-2
El 21 de novembre de 2011 13:31, Eike Rathke <[hidden email]> ha escrit:

> Hi Joan,
>
> On Sunday, 2011-11-20 11:24:19 +0100, Joan Montané wrote:
>
> > > That looks like it would be possible to define genitive months as
> > > "de març", "d'abril", "de maig", ... give it a try.
> > >
> > > However, that might lose the ability to parse such dates as currently
> > > the " de " is defined as LongDateDaySeparator, and the input is matched
> > > against separators followed by month names. Might need some massaging
> in
> > > parser code.
> > >
> > >
> > Thanks for quick reply. If we define genitive months as "de març",
> > "d'abril",... can we access current months?  That is, when genitive or
> > current months forms are used?
>
> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "current months", is that the
> month names as currently defined by the <MonthsOfYear> element? Note
> that <GenitiveMonths> is an additional element and does not replace the
> <MonthsOfYear> element.
>
> In context of the parser, the parser tries to match against both,
> GenitiveMonths and MonthsOfYear elements, so if MonthsOfYear specifies
> the month name without the leading "de " then things should still work
> if they did before, I didn't try yet.
>
>  Eike
>
>
Yes, with "current months" I was mean <MonthsOfYear>. Ok, it looks fine for
me. I will update the Catalan xml file. Just one more question.

With M, MM, MMM, MMMM and MMMMM codes we can generate diferent months
strings. So, what code is used to generate GenitiveMonths strings? there
exists such code?

In Catalan, we use only de prepositon "de" (or d') in long date formats. So
current M, MM, MMM and MMMM codes work fine. Is there some way to generate
<GenitiveMonths> with a custom date format?

Regards,
Joan Montané

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Eike Rathke-2 Eike Rathke-2
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ; -)

In reply to this post by Harri Pitkänen
Hi Harri,

On Sunday, 2011-11-20 14:30:23 +0200, Harri Pitkänen wrote:

> > Hmm.. I could add also a partitive form to locale data and use that in
> > the number formatter. Is the rule simply always that if the day precedes
> > the month the genitive is used, and if the day follows the month the
> > partitive is used?
>
> Well the genitive and partitive need to be swapped here

Of course, my bad.

> but othewise, yes. So
> the complete rule looks like this:
>
> - If there is no day of month in the format, use nominative form for the
> month.
> - If the day is before month, use partitive form for the month.
> - Otherwise (that is, if the day is after month) use genitive form.

Thanks, I'll add partitive case month names as well.

> Has
> anyone checked how this affects interoperability with Excel?

I think they use a similar approach for genitive case names (use them if
a day of month is present), but I haven't heard of partitive case.

  Eike

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Eike Rathke-2 Eike Rathke-2
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] added possessive genitive case month names, HEADS UP localizers ; -)

In reply to this post by Joan Montané
Hi Joan,

On Monday, 2011-11-21 13:46:03 +0100, Joan Montané wrote:

> Yes, with "current months" I was mean <MonthsOfYear>. Ok, it looks fine for
> me. I will update the Catalan xml file. Just one more question.
>
> With M, MM, MMM, MMMM and MMMMM codes we can generate diferent months
> strings. So, what code is used to generate GenitiveMonths strings? there
> exists such code?

There is no new code. As said, the decision whether to display
nominative or genitive name is rule based during runtime:

* if a day of month is present in the format code, the genitive name for
  MMM and MMMM is displayed
* if no day of month in the format code is oresent, the nominative name
  for MMM and MMMM is displayed

The MMMMM code is a bit problematic, it can't be stored in the ODF file
format and is translated to an equivalent of MMM, so I didn't mention
that while I was at it I also added an optional <DefaultNarrowName>
element to the month (and day) name elements ;-)  Something for the
future.

> In Catalan, we use only de prepositon "de" (or d') in long date formats. So
> current M, MM, MMM and MMMM codes work fine. Is there some way to generate
> <GenitiveMonths> with a custom date format?

Simple, the runtime rules are applied, no need for specific genitive
case date formats.

  Eike

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