[libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

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Martin Srebotnjak Martin Srebotnjak
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[libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

Hi,

how have you localized the new "Notebookbar" in 5.3?

I see some teams have not localized it word by word (like German
"Symbolband"); are there any other translations like that?

I am searching for something with different wording, because in Slovenian
connecting it to a notebook really sounds awfully.

Thanks, m.

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Mihail Balabanov Mihail Balabanov
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

Hello,
In Bulgarian, I translated it as ‘Лента с раздели’, which is literally ‘bar
with tabs’ (vrstica z zavihki?).

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 1:14 AM Martin Srebotnjak <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> how have you localized the new "Notebookbar" in 5.3?
>
> I see some teams have not localized it word by word (like German
> "Symbolband"); are there any other translations like that?
>
> I am searching for something with different wording, because in Slovenian
> connecting it to a notebook really sounds awfully.
>
> Thanks, m.
>
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Martin Srebotnjak Martin Srebotnjak
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

Hi,

thanks, Sveinn and Mikhail,
Mikhail, you got it right ;)

Lp, m.

2016-12-14 1:04 GMT+01:00 Mikhail Balabanov <[hidden email]>:

> Hello,
> In Bulgarian, I translated it as ‘Лента с раздели’, which is literally
> ‘bar with tabs’ (vrstica z zavihki?).
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 1:14 AM Martin Srebotnjak <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> how have you localized the new "Notebookbar" in 5.3?
>>
>> I see some teams have not localized it word by word (like German
>> "Symbolband"); are there any other translations like that?
>>
>> I am searching for something with different wording, because in Slovenian
>> connecting it to a notebook really sounds awfully.
>>
>> Thanks, m.
>>
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>>
>

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Jean-Baptiste Faure-3 Jean-Baptiste Faure-3
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

In reply to this post by Mihail Balabanov
Hi,

Le 14/12/2016 à 01:04, Mikhail Balabanov a écrit :
> Hello,
> In Bulgarian, I translated it as ‘Лента с раздели’, which is literally ‘bar
> with tabs’ (vrstica z zavihki?).

Well, and in the case of contextual notebookbar, you have a bar with
tabs without tabs ?

In French I kept it not translated for the moment because this word
means nothing for me and I see it more like a trademark.

Best regards
JBF

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sophi sophi
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

Hi Jean-Baptiste,
Le 15/12/2016 à 06:30, Jean-Baptiste Faure a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> Le 14/12/2016 à 01:04, Mikhail Balabanov a écrit :
>> Hello,
>> In Bulgarian, I translated it as ‘Лента с раздели’, which is literally
>> ‘bar
>> with tabs’ (vrstica z zavihki?).
>
> Well, and in the case of contextual notebookbar, you have a bar with
> tabs without tabs ?
>
> In French I kept it not translated for the moment because this word
> means nothing for me and I see it more like a trademark.

I think however that we should translate it, let discuss this between us :)
Cheers
Sophie


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Martin Srebotnjak Martin Srebotnjak
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

In reply to this post by Mihail Balabanov
Hi,

we are now thinking about naming it "Zloženka", a term for something
constructed/combined/layered together from different parts (a compound) ...

Lp, m.

14. dec. 2016 1.04 AM je oseba "Mikhail Balabanov" <[hidden email]>
napisala:

> Hello,
> In Bulgarian, I translated it as ‘Лента с раздели’, which is literally
> ‘bar with tabs’ (vrstica z zavihki?).
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 1:14 AM Martin Srebotnjak <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> how have you localized the new "Notebookbar" in 5.3?
>>
>> I see some teams have not localized it word by word (like German
>> "Symbolband"); are there any other translations like that?
>>
>> I am searching for something with different wording, because in Slovenian
>> connecting it to a notebook really sounds awfully.
>>
>> Thanks, m.
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
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>> deleted
>>
>

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Mihkel Tõnnov Mihkel Tõnnov
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

Hi,

I'm considering (and will most likely go for) the equivalent of "hybrid
(tool)bar" in Estonian translation.
Nowadays, "hübriid-" has positive connotations and sounds progressive (at
least in Estonian), so maybe similar translation could work for some other
language as well.

Br, Mihkel

2016-12-21 12:13 GMT+02:00 Martin Srebotnjak <[hidden email]>:

> Hi,
>
> we are now thinking about naming it "Zloženka", a term for something
> constructed/combined/layered together from different parts (a compound) ...
>
> Lp, m.
>
> 14. dec. 2016 1.04 AM je oseba "Mikhail Balabanov" <[hidden email]>
> napisala:
>
> > Hello,
> > In Bulgarian, I translated it as ‘Лента с раздели’, which is literally
> > ‘bar with tabs’ (vrstica z zavihki?).
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 1:14 AM Martin Srebotnjak <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> how have you localized the new "Notebookbar" in 5.3?
> >>
> >> I see some teams have not localized it word by word (like German
> >> "Symbolband"); are there any other translations like that?
> >>
> >> I am searching for something with different wording, because in
> Slovenian
> >> connecting it to a notebook really sounds awfully.
> >>
> >> Thanks, m.
>

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Michael Bauer Michael Bauer
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

I'm just going to call it "ribbon" in Gaelic, not sure why LO had to go
with a new word here anyway, everyone hates it as "the ribbon" ;)

Interestingly, originally it seems to have been called "non-tabbed
toolbar", dunno if that creates issues with those translations that
called it "tabbed/with tabs something"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_(computing)

Michael

Sgrìobh Mihkel Tõnnov na leanas 21/12/2016 aig 10:41:

> Hi,
>
> I'm considering (and will most likely go for) the equivalent of "hybrid
> (tool)bar" in Estonian translation.
> Nowadays, "hübriid-" has positive connotations and sounds progressive (at
> least in Estonian), so maybe similar translation could work for some other
> language as well.
>
> Br, Mihkel
>
> 2016-12-21 12:13 GMT+02:00 Martin Srebotnjak <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> we are now thinking about naming it "Zloženka", a term for something
>> constructed/combined/layered together from different parts (a compound) ...
>>
>> Lp, m.
>>
>> 14. dec. 2016 1.04 AM je oseba "Mikhail Balabanov" <[hidden email]>
>> napisala:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> In Bulgarian, I translated it as ‘Лента с раздели’, which is literally
>>> ‘bar with tabs’ (vrstica z zavihki?).
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 1:14 AM Martin Srebotnjak <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> how have you localized the new "Notebookbar" in 5.3?
>>>>
>>>> I see some teams have not localized it word by word (like German
>>>> "Symbolband"); are there any other translations like that?
>>>>
>>>> I am searching for something with different wording, because in
>> Slovenian
>>>> connecting it to a notebook really sounds awfully.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, m.

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Martin Srebotnjak Martin Srebotnjak
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

In reply to this post by Martin Srebotnjak
And oh, yeah,

zloženka is used for baked lasagna-like dishes with layers of different
stuff ... not a muffin, but more like what the MUFFIN wants to be ...

Lp, m.

2016-12-21 11:13 GMT+01:00 Martin Srebotnjak <[hidden email]>:

> Hi,
>
> we are now thinking about naming it "Zloženka", a term for something
> constructed/combined/layered together from different parts (a compound) ...
>
> Lp, m.
>
> 14. dec. 2016 1.04 AM je oseba "Mikhail Balabanov" <[hidden email]>
> napisala:
>
> Hello,
>> In Bulgarian, I translated it as ‘Лента с раздели’, which is literally
>> ‘bar with tabs’ (vrstica z zavihki?).
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 1:14 AM Martin Srebotnjak <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> how have you localized the new "Notebookbar" in 5.3?
>>>
>>> I see some teams have not localized it word by word (like German
>>> "Symbolband"); are there any other translations like that?
>>>
>>> I am searching for something with different wording, because in Slovenian
>>> connecting it to a notebook really sounds awfully.
>>>
>>> Thanks, m.
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-uns
>>> ubscribe/
>>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>>> deleted
>>>
>>

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sophi sophi
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

In reply to this post by Michael Bauer
Hi Michael, all,
Le 21/12/2016 à 12:01, Michael Bauer a écrit :
> I'm just going to call it "ribbon" in Gaelic, not sure why LO had to go
> with a new word here anyway, everyone hates it as "the ribbon" ;)

lol, I'm sure you don't want your users to hate LibreOffice ;-) I really
like the way Mihkel and Martin are taking, the idea of combined or
hybrid, I think it really reflects where we want to go with this multi
things interface.
>
> Interestingly, originally it seems to have been called "non-tabbed
> toolbar", dunno if that creates issues with those translations that
> called it "tabbed/with tabs something"
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_(computing)

Yes Jean-Baptiste is right, depending how you display the toolbar, there
could be no tabs appearing.
Hence I think the correct translation is neither ribbon nor tab something.
I really don't know why the UX team had chosen a name that means nothing
even in English.

Cheers
Sophie
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Michael Bauer Michael Bauer
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

Well, LO allows user choice here, so I don't think it will invoke the
same feelings - I know some people like it but I just find it hugely
frustrating to work with personally. But that's going off topic.

Over and out

Michael

Sgrìobh Sophie na leanas 21/12/2016 aig 13:25:
>> I'm just going to call it "ribbon" in Gaelic, not sure why LO had to go
>> with a new word here anyway, everyone hates it as "the ribbon";)
> lol, I'm sure you don't want your users to hate LibreOffice;-)  

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Jan Holesovsky-4 Jan Holesovsky-4
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

In reply to this post by sophi
Hi Sophie, all,

Sophie píše v St 21. 12. 2016 v 14:25 +0100:

> I really don't know why the UX team had chosen a name that means nothing
> even in English.

A "notebook" is a general name for the tabbed User Interface element, we
took that from Gtk (but it's used elsewhere too), because it is what
the .ui files use:

  https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkNotebook.html

The name in Gtk was I suppose inspired by a paper notebook like eg. this
one:

  http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0264/7911/products/825466934009_1_1024x1024.jpg

The "bar" is hopefully obvious - the same meaning as in menubar or
toolbar.

Hope this background info makes the localization easier :-)

All the best,
Kendy


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sophi sophi
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

Hi Kendy,
Le 21/12/2016 à 18:19, Jan Holesovsky a écrit :

> Hi Sophie, all,
>
> Sophie píše v St 21. 12. 2016 v 14:25 +0100:
>
>> I really don't know why the UX team had chosen a name that means nothing
>> even in English.
>
> A "notebook" is a general name for the tabbed User Interface element, we
> took that from Gtk (but it's used elsewhere too), because it is what
> the .ui files use:
>
>   https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkNotebook.html
>
> The name in Gtk was I suppose inspired by a paper notebook like eg. this
> one:
>
>   http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0264/7911/products/825466934009_1_1024x1024.jpg
>
> The "bar" is hopefully obvious - the same meaning as in menubar or
> toolbar.
>
> Hope this background info makes the localization easier :-)

Thanks for the explanations Kendy, what I don't understand still is why
the name was kept even with a bar that has no tab but is full of
buttons, like Heiko's picture:
https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/12/Figure1.png

 But, well that's a side note, I think we get it now :)

Cheers
Sophie

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Martin Srebotnjak Martin Srebotnjak
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

In reply to this post by Jan Holesovsky-4
Hi, Jan,

visually that gtknotebook reminds *me* graphically more of a notepad, like
this
https://m.riflepaperco.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/1170x1248/fb193eecb19491ee2d70d1d38e002e96/n/o/notepad-npm011-graph-pad-01.jpg

Lp, m.


2016-12-21 18:19 GMT+01:00 Jan Holesovsky <[hidden email]>:

> Hi Sophie, all,
>
> Sophie píše v St 21. 12. 2016 v 14:25 +0100:
>
> > I really don't know why the UX team had chosen a name that means nothing
> > even in English.
>
> A "notebook" is a general name for the tabbed User Interface element, we
> took that from Gtk (but it's used elsewhere too), because it is what
> the .ui files use:
>
>   https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkNotebook.html
>
> The name in Gtk was I suppose inspired by a paper notebook like eg. this
> one:
>
>   http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0264/7911/products/
> 825466934009_1_1024x1024.jpg
>
> The "bar" is hopefully obvious - the same meaning as in menubar or
> toolbar.
>
> Hope this background info makes the localization easier :-)
>
> All the best,
> Kendy
>
>
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Jan Holesovsky-4 Jan Holesovsky-4
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localizing the "Notebookbar"

Hi Martin,

Martin Srebotnjak píše v St 21. 12. 2016 v 22:34 +0100:

> visually that gtknotebook reminds *me* graphically more of a notepad,
> like this
>
> https://m.riflepaperco.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/1170x1248/fb193eecb19491ee2d70d1d38e002e96/n/o/notepad-npm011-graph-pad-01.jpg

In the screenshot that was in the reference manual, I guess you are
right; but it depends on the Gtk+ theme that is used - other themes look
different, like eg.:

https://blogs.gnome.org/johannes/files/2009/11/gtknotebook.png

https://valadoc.org/gtk+-3.0/img/example-Gtk.Notebook.png

[but there are many other].

The GtkNotebook is in Gtk+ for years; I think from the very beginning,
my quick search has found some patches going to gtknotebook.c in 1998.

All the best,
Kendy



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