[libreoffice-l10n] Utter negligence of the Silesian translation

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Grzegorz Kulik Grzegorz Kulik
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[libreoffice-l10n] Utter negligence of the Silesian translation

Dear all,

I'm writing this message because I'm extremely frustrated. Since the
13th of July over 96% of LibreOffice has been translated to the
Silesian language. It is more than Finnish, Swedish, Latvian, Polish,
Irish, and many others.

The fact that my language was ready to be included with the release of
LO 6.3.0 was completely disregarded. I made enquiries in a few places,
and on 12th of August I was told that the Silesian version was
discussed during the last Engineering Steering Committee and it would
be packed and released, too.

Almost a month has passed, 6.3.1 is already available, and still, the
Silesian version hasn't been packed. I have sent two e-mails to the
person responsible for that and I got no answer.

Here's the question: what is the point of the work I did FOR FREE for
The Document Foundation? Now, I can understand people might be busy. I
can understand an oversight. But two versions have been released since
my job was done and it doesn't look like an oversight anymore.

How long is the Silesian community going to wait? Can anybody give me
any answer?

Regards,
Gregory

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Adolfo Jayme Barrientos-3 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos-3
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Utter negligence of the Silesian translation

Nobody has neglected your request.

Nine days ago this patch implementing the language pack was merged:
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-6-3-1&id=6fe3a97a78a36cbfe2be9cb4bab9a27d955d8df9

And Christian is developing further uptimizations to the build
process, e.g.: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/78658/

It is in the interest of this project to have your translations
distributed to your people, of course. Assume good faith.

Adolfo

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Grzegorz Kulik Grzegorz Kulik
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Ôdp: [libreoffice-l10n] Utter negligence of the Silesian translation

Thank you for the information. However, it's hard to assume good faith
if you try to find out what is going on and you get ignored. Not
everybody is a programmer and not everybody is able to follow what
changes are made to the repository. Apart from that, the information
behind the link doesn't answer the question when the language pack will
be available.

Furthermore, if a language version was neglected once, it should be in
the project's interest to compensate it by keeping its translators
informed, not stonewall them. Let's not forget that translations are
done by volunteers, and if volunteers are treated this way, they just
lose interest. Sure, large languages will just have more and more new
people wanting to do the job but what about the small ones that have
just one or two translators?

Gregory

We piōntek, 6 wrz 2019 ô godzinie 02:36, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos
([hidden email]) pisze:
> Nobody has neglected your request.
> Nine days ago this patch implementing the language pack was merged:
> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-6-3-1&id=6fe3a97a78a36cbfe2be9cb4bab9a27d955d8df9
> And Christian is developing further uptimizations to the
> buildprocess, e.g.: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/78658/
> It is in the interest of this project to have your
> translationsdistributed to your people, of course. Assume good faith.
> Adolfo
>

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sophie sophie
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Re: Ôdp: [libreoffice-l10n] Utter negligence of the Silesian translation

Hi Grzegorz,
Le 06/09/2019 à 10:19, Grzegorz Kulik a écrit :
> Thank you for the information. However, it's hard to assume good faith
> if you try to find out what is going on and you get ignored. Not
> everybody is a programmer and not everybody is able to follow what
> changes are made to the repository. Apart from that, the information
> behind the link doesn't answer the question when the language pack will
> be available.

I told you that I'll come back to you when it will be available and that
Christian was working on it, didn't I? Christian is doing the release
engineering and he has a lot on his plate. If you know somebody able to
help him, he will be more that welcome.
>
> Furthermore, if a language version was neglected once, it should be in
> the project's interest to compensate it by keeping its translators
> informed, not stonewall them.

I thought I answered your questions, if you find it's too long, just
ping me again and I'd give you explanations (thanks Adolfo for providing
them).

 Let's not forget that translations are
> done by volunteers, and if volunteers are treated this way, they just
> lose interest.

We are an open source project driven by volunteers, each of us has his
own speed and spare time and some areas of the project are lacking
volunteers, this is the case for infra.

 Sure, large languages will just have more and more new
> people wanting to do the job but what about the small ones that have
> just one or two translators?

I see no large languages or small languages here, all languages are equal.
BTW did you give a try to Weblate, what's you feedback on it?

Cheers
Sophie
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GSM: +33683901545
IRC: sophi
Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

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Grzegorz Kulik Grzegorz Kulik
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Ôdp: Ôdp: [libreoffice-l10n] Utter negligence of the Silesian translation

We piōntek, 6 wrz 2019 ô godzinie 10:34, sophi ([hidden email])
pisze:

> Hi Grzegorz,
> Le 06/09/2019 à 10:19, Grzegorz Kulik a écrit :
> Thank you for the information. However, it's hard to assume good faith
> if you try to find out what is going on and you get ignored. Not
> everybody is a programmer and not everybody is able to follow what
> changes are made to the repository. Apart from that, the information
> behind the link doesn't answer the question when the language pack will
> be available.
>
> I told you that I'll come back to you when it will be available and that
> Christian was working on it, didn't I? Christian is doing the release
> engineering and he has a lot on his plate. If you know somebody able to
> help him, he will be more that welcome.

Not exactly, you said you'd "keep me updated". You never said you'd get
back to me when it's done. Keeping someone updated means making sure
that they know of the latest news. That is the definition of keeping
someone updated.

>
> Furthermore, if a language version was neglected once, it should be in
> the project's interest to compensate it by keeping its translators
> informed, not stonewall them.
>
> I thought I answered your questions, if you find it's too long, just
> ping me again and I'd give you explanations (thanks Adolfo for providing
> them).

You gave me a vague statement that "Christian will provide the lang
pack", so first I waited, then sent him two emails, and got no answer.

>
>  Let's not forget that translations are
> done by volunteers, and if volunteers are treated this way, they just
> lose interest.
>
> We are an open source project driven by volunteers, each of us has his
> own speed and spare time and some areas of the project are lacking
> volunteers, this is the case for infra.

Perhaps that should have been said in August.

>
>  Sure, large languages will just have more and more new
> people wanting to do the job but what about the small ones that have
> just one or two translators?
>
> I see no large languages or small languages here, all languages are equal.

There are large and small languages. Large languages have millions of
speakers, small ones have several thousands. Because small languages
don't have the same resources, projects can very quickly run out of
volunteers who are willing to contribute in them.

> BTW did you give a try to Weblate, what's you feedback on it?

I used Weblate before, so however you put it together, I'm fine wit it.

>
> Cheers
> Sophie
> --
> Sophie Gautier [hidden email]
> GSM: +33683901545
> IRC: sophi
> Release coordinator
> The Document Foundation
>
>

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sophie sophie
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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: Ôdp: Ôdp: [libreoffice-l10n] Utter negligence of the Silesian translation

Le 06/09/2019 à 11:15, Grzegorz Kulik a écrit :

> We piōntek, 6 wrz 2019 ô godzinie 10:34, sophi ([hidden email])
> pisze:
>> Hi Grzegorz,
>> Le 06/09/2019 à 10:19, Grzegorz Kulik a écrit :
>> Thank you for the information. However, it's hard to assume good faith
>> if you try to find out what is going on and you get ignored. Not
>> everybody is a programmer and not everybody is able to follow what
>> changes are made to the repository. Apart from that, the information
>> behind the link doesn't answer the question when the language pack will
>> be available.
>>
>> I told you that I'll come back to you when it will be available and that
>> Christian was working on it, didn't I? Christian is doing the release
>> engineering and he has a lot on his plate. If you know somebody able to
>> help him, he will be more that welcome.
>
> Not exactly, you said you'd "keep me updated". You never said you'd get
> back to me when it's done. Keeping someone updated means making sure
> that they know of the latest news. That is the definition of keeping
> someone updated.

I'm sorry, but even if I really would like to, I wouldn't be able to
keep each contributor up to date, so sorry if I said that, I was meaning
when it will be available. We discussed it at the ESC meeting, so the
state is in the minutes published on the QA, dev and projects lists.

>
>>
>> Furthermore, if a language version was neglected once, it should be in
>> the project's interest to compensate it by keeping its translators
>> informed, not stonewall them.
>>
>> I thought I answered your questions, if you find it's too long, just
>> ping me again and I'd give you explanations (thanks Adolfo for providing
>> them).
>
> You gave me a vague statement that "Christian will provide the lang
> pack", so first I waited, then sent him two emails, and got no answer.

Next time, please ping me, not him, he has already a lot to do.

>
>>
>>  Let's not forget that translations are
>> done by volunteers, and if volunteers are treated this way, they just
>> lose interest.
>>
>> We are an open source project driven by volunteers, each of us has his
>> own speed and spare time and some areas of the project are lacking
>> volunteers, this is the case for infra.
>
> Perhaps that should have been said in August.

I thought this is already known by community members.

>
>>
>>  Sure, large languages will just have more and more new
>> people wanting to do the job but what about the small ones that have
>> just one or two translators?
>>
>> I see no large languages or small languages here, all languages are equal.
>
> There are large and small languages. Large languages have millions of
> speakers, small ones have several thousands. Because small languages
> don't have the same resources, projects can very quickly run out of
> volunteers who are willing to contribute in them.

This is not because a language is spoken by millions that it gets more
volunteers, for French, we are two translators and I was alone for
years. So for localization, there is no small or large languages, we are
all equals.
>
>> BTW did you give a try to Weblate, what's you feedback on it?
>
> I used Weblate before, so however you put it together, I'm fine wit it.

Great, thanks for your feedback.
Cheers
Sophie

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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: Ôdp: Ôdp: [libreoffice-l10n] Utter negligence of the Silesian translation

In reply to this post by Grzegorz Kulik
On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:17 AM Grzegorz Kulik <[hidden email]> wrote:
> We piōntek, 6 wrz 2019 ô godzinie 10:34, sophi ([hidden email])
>
> Not exactly, you said you'd "keep me updated". You never said you'd get
> back to me when it's done.

Pretty sure in one of the various channels it was written that it
would be added for the 6.3.1 release.
And this is what happened.

> You gave me a vague statement that "Christian will provide the lang
> pack", so first I waited, then sent him two emails, and got no answer.

Because I don't see a point in duplicating stuff or repeating stuff
that had already been stated.
And especially surprised to get complaint apparently without checking.

https://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/stable/6.3.1/rpm/x86_64/LibreOffice_6.3.1_Linux_x86-64_rpm_langpack_szl.tar.gz.mirrorlist
https://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/stable/6.3.1/deb/x86_64/LibreOffice_6.3.1_Linux_x86-64_deb_langpack_szl.tar.gz.mirrorlist
https://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/stable/6.3.1/mac/x86_64/LibreOffice_6.3.1_MacOS_x86-64_langpack_szl.dmg.mirrorlist

ciao
Christian

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Grzegorz Kulik Grzegorz Kulik
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Ôdp: [libreoffice-l10n] Utter negligence of the Silesian translation

Mate, you already screwed up once. Don't be a dick.

We piōntek, 6 wrz 2019 ô godzinie 19:08, Christian Lohmaier
([hidden email]) pisze:

> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:17 AM Grzegorz Kulik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> We piōntek, 6 wrz 2019 ô godzinie 10:34, sophi ([hidden email])
>
> Not exactly, you said you'd "keep me updated". You never said you'd get
> back to me when it's done.
>
> Pretty sure in one of the various channels it was written that it
> would be added for the 6.3.1 release.
> And this is what happened.
>
>
> You gave me a vague statement that "Christian will provide the lang
> pack", so first I waited, then sent him two emails, and got no answer.
>
> Because I don't see a point in duplicating stuff or repeating stuff
> that had already been stated.
> And especially surprised to get complaint apparently without checking.
>
> https://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/stable/6.3.1/rpm/x86_64/LibreOffice_6.3.1_Linux_x86-64_rpm_langpack_szl.tar.gz.mirrorlist
> https://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/stable/6.3.1/deb/x86_64/LibreOffice_6.3.1_Linux_x86-64_deb_langpack_szl.tar.gz.mirrorlist
> https://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/stable/6.3.1/mac/x86_64/LibreOffice_6.3.1_MacOS_x86-64_langpack_szl.dmg.mirrorlist
>
> ciao
> Christian
>

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