minutes of ESC call ...

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Michael Meeks-2 Michael Meeks-2
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minutes of ESC call ...

* Present:
        + Rainer, David, Andras, Lionel, Norbert, Christian L,
          Kendy, Caolan, Mitch, Stephan, Michael M, Cedric, Petr,
          Astron, Bjoern

* Completed Action Items
        + notify all committers when we have a nice simple, minimal
          statement of what is required for gerrit written (Bjoern)
        + maildrop for Gerrit (Bjoern)
                + http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2012-August/036600.html
                        + send mail starting [PATCH] to gerrit at libreoffice.org
                initial implementation done, could need some tweaking, like:
                - adding the mail body (and the time and sender of the mail)
                - maildropped patches do not get firehosed to the ML (unless CCed) as the
                  uploader is the gerritbot himself and thus he get no email notification
                  about his upload -- a firehose based on openstacks IRC bot should solve this
                  and not be too hard (and that one is now properly licensed, so we can fork it)
                - allowing adding comments via email (though no approval -- to much
                  authentication troubles)
        + file an easy-hack to ship a binary to zip user-profile for debugging (Petr)
                + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53583
        + update QA FAQs / challenge answers to encourage moving
          profiles away instead of deleting (Rainer)
                + https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UserProfile
                + http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/2012-August/002251.html

* Pending Action Items
        + 4.0 issues (Everyone)
                + everyone interested in cleanups - claim your work until next ESC!
                        + http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/LibreOffice4
        + make bytemark windows box do release builds (Fridrich)
        + crediting: can we separate tempates in the credits page (Spaetz)
        + re-think our bundled font list (Astron / design-team)

* GSOC update (Cedric)
        + Monday 13th deadline for code
        + next week - students & mentors need to fulfill the evaluation
        + students need to prepare a tar.gz with patches
                + is: git log -u --author='Andrzej' > /tmp/big-patch.diff
                + adequate (eg.) or is splitting them mandatory, use eg.
                + git rev-list --author='Andrzej' master
        + drop-dead-line for reviews Aug 24th

* Release Engineering update (Petr)
        + 3.6.1 RC1 update
                + being up-loaded to mirrors, hopefully for announce
                  tomorrow, on-track
                + deadline for RC2 on Monday
                + hope to have extensions troubles nailed & a much
                  better experience left & right.
                + big pre-reg removal so far appears sound
        + 3.6.2 rc1 - September 17th
        + 3.5.6 retrospective
                + released yesterday, smooth release
                + potentially hard to find how to download it
        + 3.5.7 rc1 - October 12th

* download / version selection issues
        + always complicated to have 2x downloads on
          the same page (Astron)
                + can we label point-zero releases in some
                  better way ?
                + chicken-egg problem around testing
        + would an improved testing program help ?
                + encouraging more people to download it.
        + We could list other versions explicitly instead
          of having the multiple selection pages marked
          "Change system, version, language" (Cloph)

* Editing website performance (Cloph)
        + issue with editing the website - takes the site
          down for a long delay.
        + we've had load issues on the server; php processes
          taking too much CPU; setup VM to do some profiling
          this weekend
                + issues for two weeks, since re-start;
                  looking (Cloph)
        + user-rendered pages, not affected, only editing
        + xcache investigation - no impact either way
        + leap-second bug related (Nobert?)

* UI / design update (Astron)
        + started the fonts discussion, proposals on a wiki page
          https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Wishlists/Fonts

* gerrit -> freedesktop migration
        + planned for Friday night European time,
        + starting over the weekend; push to gerrit instead
                + E-mail will be sent when it's ready.
        + pushing to freedesktop will give a helpful
          warning instead.
        + so *still* regular git, normal git push - just a
          different server.

* Call for Papers - talks @ LibreOffice con
        + http://conference.libreoffice.org/call-for-paper
        + more talks, particularly short talks appreciated
                + Android / cross-compilation - Tor
AI: + release mgmt & QA round-table - Petr
AI: + CMIS - why it rocks - Cedric
AI: + overview of Base easy-hacks - Lionel
AI: + easy-hacks - the workshop (Michael)
AI: + 15mins improving on-line updates (Kendy)
AI: + 15mins wiki help update (Kendy)

* bugzilla / gerrit integration (Bjoern)
        + concern about getting spammed a lot.
        + if only one mail if there is a patch at all, it doesn't hurt too much
                + changing it is an easy-hack

* GUADEC update (Michael)
        + liblibreoffice interest for libevince like embedding
                + complementary to mobile device work.
        + potential tracker indexing bits
                + come up in conversation - difficult to work out what's up
        + hacked on gstreamer

* QA update (Rainer)
        + needinfo mass-close panic subsiding
                + not optimal, but it is what it is,
                + Rainer happy to deal with complaints, just fwd.
        + what's up with the MINGW / win-7 tinderbox slave
                + it was harming a five-year-old beast / test
                  machine we run it on
AI: + re-start it soon (Kendy)
                + Rainer wants to triage MINGW bugs.
        + introducing 'HardHacks' (Bjoern)
                + 3.6.0 flameage
                + QA team suggested picking five top-bugs each
                  two weeks in their call, need to be:
                        + among MAB
                        + triaged as far as possible
                        + best prepared bugs: symbol traces,
                          reproducible etc.
                + throw these over to the ESC
                        + quest for volunteers here to dig into them.
                + want a hard-hacks query - with five hits
                + bug list into minutes for call etc. (5mins)
                        + briefly discuss them each week
                + suck it see next week (Rainer)
        + producing a bibsect repository for Windows (Norbert)
        + new bug report page - with search for duplicates [!] ...
        + Bjoern's hard-hack idea ...

* git-review thoughts (Bjoern)

* 4.0 - ongoing discussion (Kendy)
        + best ideas heard so far: to do an ABI thaw for 4.0,
          and keep in place until after 4.1 - 1 year for ABI
          fixing.

* 3.6 most annoying bugs ...
    + 21 (of 80) older 11/58 12/55 11/48 8/42 10/37 11/35 5/26 5/21 3/19 4/15
         26%            19%   22%   23%   19%  27%   31%   19%  24%  16%  27%
    + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=44446&hide_resolved=1

* 3.5 most annoying bugs ...
    + 76 open (of 256) older 75/253 77/253 73/250 72/249 67/244 70/243 73/241
         30%                  30%    30%    29%    29%    27%    29%    30%
    + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=37361&hide_resolved=1

* 3.5 bugs tagged with 'regression'
    + 166(-11) bugs open of 736(+13) total

    * ~Component   count net *
    + Writer       - 67 (+0)
    + Presentation - 19 (-2)
    + Crashes      - 14 (-6)
    + LibreOffice  - 14 (-3)
    + Spreadsheet  - 14 (-2)
    + Database     - 10 (-1)
    + Drawing      - 12 (+1)
    + Borders      - 9  (+0)
    + Migration    - 8  (+1)
    + Writer / RTF - 4  (-3)
    + Basic        - 2  (+0)

    + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?keywords=regression%2C%20&keywords_type=allwords&resolution=---&query_format=advanced&product=LibreOffice&list_id=36764
    + Migration tracker: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43489

--
[hidden email]  <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot

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Bjoern Michaelsen Bjoern Michaelsen
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Re: minutes of ESC call ...

Hi,

some additions:

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 04:36:17PM +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:
> * bugzilla / gerrit integration (Bjoern)
> + concern about getting spammed a lot.
> + if only one mail if there is a patch at all, it doesn't hurt too much
> + changing it is an easy-hack

Not changing -- creating. There is currently no gerrit-integration on bugzilla.
(gerrit integrated bugzilla quite nicely already.)

> + want a hard-hacks query - with five hits

We can give that a try, but thinking about it that is really easy abused when
just triggering on a whiteboard keyword (as in: people adding it to their pet
peeve bugs). If that happens, handing over a query with 5 hardcoded bug numbers
via mail should be safe and simple.

Best,

Bjoern
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bfoman bfoman
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Re: minutes of ESC call ...

Bjoern Michaelsen wrote
> + want a hard-hacks query - with five hits
We can give that a try, but thinking about it that is really easy abused when
just triggering on a whiteboard keyword (as in: people adding it to their pet
peeve bugs). If that happens, handing over a query with 5 hardcoded bug numbers
via mail should be safe and simple.
Hi.
Flag system of Bugzilla could be used - create "put name here" flag for LibreOffice product, create grant and request group, add esc and qa team members to them.
See https://bugs.freedesktop.org/docs/en/html/flags-overview.html.
"put name here" could follow version scheme.
Bugzilla main developer Frédéric Buclin already declared help in flags setup in bug https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33070.
Flag mechanism could be used not just to nominate bugs to fix, blockers etc. but all other Bugzilla activities (bibisect, qawanted and other requests) and therefore not abusing whiteboard field.
Best regards.
Bjoern Michaelsen Bjoern Michaelsen
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Re: minutes of ESC call ...

Hi bfo,

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 01:35:31PM -0700, bfo wrote:

> Flag system of Bugzilla could be used - create "put name here" flag for
> LibreOffice product, create grant and request group, add esc and qa team
> members to them.
> See https://bugs.freedesktop.org/docs/en/html/flags-overview.html.
> "put name here" could follow version scheme.
> Bugzilla main developer Frédéric Buclin already declared help in flags setup
> in bug https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33070.
> Flag mechanism could be used not just to nominate bugs to fix, blockers etc.
> but all other Bugzilla activities (bibisect, qawanted and other requests)
> and therefore not abusing whiteboard field.

While the flags stuff sound interesting in general, one reason we dont go with
keywords most of the time is that whiteboard status can be changed without
administration rights on the bugzilla. Since distributing tags over keywords,
whiteboard and flags also makes things more complex for users to get right, I
dont think we should consider it -- at least not now for a list of 5 bug numbers.

Best,

Bjoern
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Bjoern Michaelsen Bjoern Michaelsen
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Re: minutes of ESC call ...

In reply to this post by Michael Meeks-2
On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 04:36:17PM +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:

> + introducing 'HardHacks' (Bjoern)
> + 3.6.0 flameage
> + QA team suggested picking five top-bugs each
>  two weeks in their call, need to be:
> + among MAB
> + triaged as far as possible
> + best prepared bugs: symbol traces,
>  reproducible etc.
> + throw these over to the ESC
> + quest for volunteers here to dig into them.
> + want a hard-hacks query - with five hits
> + bug list into minutes for call etc. (5mins)
> + briefly discuss them each week
> + suck it see next week (Rainer)
> + Bjoern's hard-hack idea ...

Uhem, where is the AI for me to announce it. Anyway: done. ;)

Best,

Bjoern
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Roman Eisele-2 Roman Eisele-2
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"LibreOffice 3.7 Most Annoying Bugs" tracking bug created

In reply to this post by Michael Meeks-2
Hi all,

after a short discussion on the QA mailing list, I have created the new
"LibreOffice 3.7 most annoying bugs" tracking bug. You find it at

      <https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54157>

Please add all critical bugs which have appeared first in our 3.7 daily
builds to the "Depends on:" field of this new tracking bug.
And (this one goes to our developers) please take a look at this page
from time to time and try to give the issues reported there special
priority. Thank you!

Additionally, I have followed Rainer’s suggestion to create a special
wiki page about the MAB handling procedure which we can correct, expand,
and translate as necessary -- you will find it at

      <https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Most_Annoying_Bugs>

Feel free to improve that page, if necessary, or to translate it to the
various wiki languages. (I will complete the German translation soon.)
Special hint to native speakers: you are very welcome to improve my poor
English grammar and style ;-)

Thank you all for your good work, and best regards,

        Roman
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