minutes of ESC call ...

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Michael Meeks-2 Michael Meeks-2
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minutes of ESC call ...

* Present
        + Norbert, Thorsten, Stephan, David, Eike, Michael M, Andras,
          Joel, Ahmad, Kendy, Cedric, Bjoern, Lionel, Christian,
          Caolan, Tsahi, Petr

* Completed Action Items
        + look into Windows gallery builds (Michael)
        + look into clipart issues (Caolan)
        + switch on on-line update for 4.0.3 (Kendy)
        + look into Gnome-VFS / URI mangling / path issues (Michael)
          https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64311
                [ fix back-ported to -4-0 thanks to Fridrich ]
        + mail the ux-advise list + Caolan with button order feedback (Astron)
        + connect Joel with Andreas to get contact details for ext'n devs (Thorsten)
        + get status of coretext in 4.1 (Tor, Abdulmajid, Khaled)
        + look at crash-on-start on Mac (Stephan / David)

* Pending Action Items
        + look at gradient issues (Michael)
        + double check Lionel's list-box / API change (Eike)
        + need design for copying styles between templates (Astron/UX)
                + either in that dialog or a new dialog
                + also issue with only editing templates that are in the mgr
        + feedback on stepped-lines dialog (Astron)
        + buy Windows build hardware / hosting (Norbert)
                + buy gamer boxes, and ship them to people's homes
                        + alternatives too expensive / slow throughput
AI: + buy fast Windows build hardware (Norbert, Thorsten, Michael)
                + Mac hardware is up & installed & running 24/7
AI: + setup Mac hardware tinderbox slave (Norbert)
        + find a good public ? test / webdav server for QA (Thorsten)
        + kill calc / inherited number formatting for 4.1 (Markus)
        + revive writer default templates discussion - pwrt. incremental change (Ahmad)

* Release Engineering update (Petr)
        + 3.6.7 schedule - deadline: June 24th for rc1
        + 4.0.4 rc1 - May 27th - ~two weeks out
        + 4.1 - feature-freeze: May 20th
                **** Feature Freeze Monday ****
                + build on Tuesday pre-tagging
                + experience of Alpha1 not so wonderful, but everything should
                  be fixed now.
        + 4.1 MABs:
                + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=60270&hide_resolved=1
AI: + Can't progress through the database wizard (Caolan)
                        + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62937
AI: + Mac: open/save of odt broken (Caolan)
                        + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58978
        + 4.1 pending / watch features / issues
                + gallery building (Michael)
AI: + disable gallery building on Mac (Norbert)
                + wiki page needs updating with features:
                        + http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.1
                + uno type database re-work (Stephan)
                        + pushed it just now: size much smaller, and
                          callgrind looks sensible.
                        + IDL compiler generates the old format, so the SDK
                          will still generate the old format for extensions
                        + during the build - we generate new format .rdbs
                        + can read old & new formats.
                + query about updating doxygen (Norbert)
                        + still using autodoc internally, but Michael S. has
                          taught doxygen about our IDL format, waiting on a
                          release there.
                + coretext (Tor/Khaled)
                        + selection problems on Mac for now
                        + looks decent, but has selection / font-highlighting
                          problems
                        + overall - big improvement, not obviously broken,
                          fixes a number of Arabic issues.
AI: + enable it for 4.1 betas and see how we go (Norbert)

* Hamburg hack-fest (Thorsten)
        + Reminder to book travel
                + https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest/Hamburg2013
        + it's going to be good.

* QA update (Joel)
        + Need_Advice Bugs
                + These bugs seem to absolutely need developer input or
                  some special knowledge/setup to move forward.
                + We will be careful about using this whiteboard status
                  but hope that once it gets the status, it can be triaged
                  quickly by a developer
                + Currently only 2 bugs there, probably will increase as we
                  triage but in general should stay quite low
                        + http://tinyurl.com/ce6d8km
        + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/page.cgi?id=weekly-bug-summary.html
                + rather more bugs opened than closed
                        +190 -147
                + bug count climbing a bit:
                + should start falling next week - with more time from Joel
        + apparent decline in quality of bug reports
                + cutting edge people upgraded to 4.0 immediately, and they
                  filed good bugs; whereas more and more are 'NEEDINFO' due to
                  lack of necessary information
        + Printer Settings
                + Seems like a few things are broken here, individually probably
                  not major bugs but combined might be needed to escalate fixing it.
                        + fdo#36568 - ignore automatically inserted blank pages, ignored
                        + fdo#61186 - several settings not passed on to printer if set
                                      in Printer Settings
AI: + printing options meta-bug creation (Joel)
                + great work from Florian wrt. See-Also markup.
        + working on stats for March / April
        + working on an bugs.freedesktop.org navigation video (Joel)
        + what do with many-comment many-cc bugs that are growing ...
                + http://tinyurl.com/atrr7xr

* Security issues (Michael)
        + Avoiding the circus [!]
                + particularly at hot times: SUSE 4.0 + 4.1 freeze + RHEL6 etc.
        + issues with secure / signed updates on Windows etc.

* UX input (Astron)
        + restoring button ordering until we can fix it globally ?
                + talking about x/y/z button-ordering, not ok/cancel
                  button ordering
                + only one of these - the un-saved changes dialog
                + a much smaller issue than originally thought =>
                  leave in platform-adapted state for now.

* gerrit mails decision (Bjoern / Kendy)
        + sum up the stuff on the mailing list; two positions:
                + more mails with comments in,
           or + want to see less
        + both do-able, with external list, with reply-to to the
          dev list and a digest -> main list.
                + people unhappy with that (Norbert, Thorsten)
                + concern with 1/2 of the thread being on another list (Norbert)
        + concerned wrt. the amount of people merging the patches (Kendy)
                + moving it to a separate list, motivate people
                  even less to merge stuff.
        + counter-productive if sending too much mail to the list (Bjoern)
                + lots of participants 'just filter it away as spam'
                + ask master committers to review other people's patches
        + important learning opportunities from patches + discussion (Norbert)
                + sad to miss that on the list.
                + what should go to what list vs. the main list ?
        + playing with mail feature of gerrit (Thorsten)
                + can create fire-hose to your own liking etc.
                + everyone can do what he/she prefers
                + ideally - some reduced amount to the dev-list: a
                  digest of initial patch submissions
                + if people need more: have wiki instructions to
                  configure how to do more.
        + eager to have a digest for the dev-list (Bjoern)
                + otherwise happy with Thorsten's proposal.
                + on launchpad - becoming a member of the libo pkg team
                        + gets all Launchpad mail wrt. LibreOffice
                        + they immediately complain.
        + digests are read-only, don't foster communication & discussion (Norbert)
                + hard to discuss things that way
        + problem with initial fire-hose of comments (Michael)
                + some of these (no-value comments) could have been
                  filtered out (Norbert)

        + Proposed compromise: (decide on it next time)
                + build a daily digest of submitted patches -> dev list
                        + with commit messages, authors, links etc.
                + turn other notifications off
                + better document the gerrit mail / notification settings
                + encourage people who want to see everything to do that.
        + find out how many subscribers on the dev list (Kendy)
                + 598 full mails and 186 digest guys

* GSOC update (Cedric)
        + we have 13 slots as of now
                + 11 excellent ones, and two weaker selected.
        + next week: trying to help spread the mentoring load
        + no notification of students until Google announce that
                + May 22nd - de-duplication
                + May 27th - students will know.

* Certification Program (Stephan/Kendy/Bjoern)
        + announce new certifications, but first need to get approval
          from individuals as to whether they want to be.
AI: + follow up invitations (Cert. team)

* Better communication / hangouts / webcams (Michael)
        + punt to next time ...

* Open 4.1 MAB
        + 4 (of 17) older 3/16 3/16 3/14 2/13 2/11 4/10 5/10 5/10 4/8 4/8
        + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=60270&hide_resolved=1

* Open 4.0 MAB
        + 18 (of 129) older 17/126 18/125 24/122 22/118 19/115 18/112 17/111 19/109
             14%             13%    14%     20%    19%    17%    16%    15%    18%
        + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=54157&hide_resolved=1

* 3.6 most annoying bugs ...
        + 71 (of 229) older 72/228 75/226 75/225 75/225 75/223 73/218 74/216
             31%             32%    33%    33%    34%    33%    34%    36%
        + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=44446&hide_resolved=1

* Bibisected bugs open: whiteboard 'bibsected'
        + 35 (of 100) older 36/100 30/90 28/88 26/85 24/83 27/83 25/78 29/78
                http://bit.ly/VQfF3Q

* all bugs tagged with 'regression'
        + 302(+1) bugs open of 1530(+17) total

        * ~Component   count net *
                Writer - 97 (+4)
           Spreadsheet - 33 (-1)
          Presentation - 30 (-1)
           Libreoffice - 26 (-2)
              Database - 22 (+0)
               Crashes - 22 (+0)
               Drawing - 19 (+1)
               Borders - 14 (+0)
                 BASIC -  4 (+1)
             Migration -  3 (+0)

        + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?keywords=regression%2C%20&keywords_type=allwords&resolution=---&query_format=advanced&product=LibreOffice&list_id=36764
        + Migration: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=43489&hide_resolved=1

--
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Bjoern Michaelsen Bjoern Michaelsen
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Re: minutes of ESC call ...

addendum:

On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 04:25:40PM +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:
> + rather more bugs opened than closed
> +190 -147

Note that Ubuntu released two weeks ago, might still be wake turbulence.

> + apparent decline in quality of bug reports
> + cutting edge people upgraded to 4.0 immediately, and they
>  filed good bugs; whereas more and more are 'NEEDINFO' due to
>  lack of necessary information

see above

> + what do with many-comment many-cc bugs that are growing ...
> + http://tinyurl.com/atrr7xr

only many-comment, many cc not easily queriable

> * Hamburg hack-fest (Thorsten)
> + Reminder to book travel
> + https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest/Hamburg2013
> + it's going to be good.

AI: + put this up on http://www.meetup.com/find/ (Bjoern)
AI:     + connect to University of Hamburg (Eike, verbally commited to that in a careless moment)

Also, please help promoting this:
AI:     + promote event elsewhere (everyone?)
          - http://lanyrd.com/dashboard/
          - ...

Best,

Bjoern
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Eike Rathke-2 Eike Rathke-2
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Re: minutes of ESC call ...

In reply to this post by Michael Meeks-2
Hi,

On Thursday, 2013-05-16 16:25:40 +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:

> + double check Lionel's list-box / API change (Eike)

Done. The two properties added to
com.sun.star.form.component.DataBaseListBox are marked optional which
doesn't harm existing clients.

  Eike

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Eike Rathke-2 Eike Rathke-2
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Re: minutes of ESC call ...

In reply to this post by Bjoern Michaelsen
Hi,

On Thursday, 2013-05-16 17:55:11 +0200, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote:

> > * Hamburg hack-fest (Thorsten)
> AI:     + connect to University of Hamburg (Eike, verbally commited to that in a careless moment)

Lol, contact initialized, Bjoern (was on Cc) will have to take over.

  Eike

--
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GPG key ID: 0x65632D3A - 2265 D7F3 A7B0 95CC 3918  630B 6A6C D5B7 6563 2D3A
For key transition see http://erack.de/key-transition-2013-01-10.txt.asc
Support the FSFE, care about Free Software! https://fsfe.org/support/?erack

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Bjoern Michaelsen Bjoern Michaelsen
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Re: minutes of ESC call ...

On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 09:46:18PM +0200, Eike Rathke wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thursday, 2013-05-16 17:55:11 +0200, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote:
>
> > > * Hamburg hack-fest (Thorsten)
> > AI:     + connect to University of Hamburg (Eike, verbally commited to that in a careless moment)
>
> Lol, contact initialized, Bjoern (was on Cc) will have to take over.

Thats clearly cheating!

Best,

Bjoern
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Christian Lohmaier-2 Christian Lohmaier-2
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

In reply to this post by Michael Meeks-2
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Michael Meeks <[hidden email]> wrote:
> [...]
> * Pending Action Items
> [...
]>         + buy Windows build hardware / hosting (Norbert)
>                 + buy gamer boxes, and ship them to people's homes
>                         + alternatives too expensive / slow throughput

Just FYI amazon's EC2 as example:
M1-large instance can do a build (accellerated using ccache) in around
7 hours → too slow
M3-xlarge instance can do a build (accellerated usin ccache) in a
little less than two hours (that would be OK), but costs $0,780/hour
(or currently $0,1375/hour for spot-pricing → 100€/month if used 24/7)

ciao
Christian
http://aws.amazon.com/en/ec2/instance-types/
http://aws.amazon.com/en/ec2/pricing/
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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

In reply to this post by Michael Meeks-2
Michael Meeks wrote (16-05-13 17:25)
> * Present

(always astonishing to notice that you guys handle so much stuff in the
meeting:-) )


> * Pending Action Items

>          + need design for copying styles between templates (Astron/UX)
>                  + either in that dialog or a new dialog
>                  + also issue with only editing templates that are in the mgr

FYI: there is some work on this:
 
http://www.mail-archive.com/libreoffice-ux-advise@.../msg01658.html 
+ responses!
  (and this split thread
 
http://www.mail-archive.com/libreoffice-ux-advise@.../msg01663.html 
)

State as per now:
  - one issue (editing templates) looks solved
  - ideas for second (copying styles) looks promising
    (but code difficulties for 'copying' what works in sw to sc may be
there ;) )
  - input for third (visibility of various) still welcome

Ciao,

--
  - Cor
  - http://nl.libreoffice.org
  - www.librelex.org

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Lionel Élie Mamane Lionel Élie Mamane
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Re: minutes of ESC call ...

In reply to this post by Eike Rathke-2
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 12:49:03PM +0200, Eike Rathke wrote:

> On Thursday, 2013-05-16 16:25:40 +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:

>> + double check Lionel's list-box / API change (Eike)

> Done. The two properties added to
> com.sun.star.form.component.DataBaseListBox are marked optional which
> doesn't harm existing clients.

I did that on advice of ... Michael Stahl? ... on IRC to shut up the
"incompatible API change" error the build was giving me.

My understanding was that this was for the benefit of putative
existing *providers* of this service, that since the properties are
optional, we did not change the requirements under their feet and they
still conform to the service specification.

I don't understand how the properties being not optional would harm
*clients* (users of the service): clients written against the old
specification would simply not use the new properties, would they?

I toyed with the idea of adding a
com.sun.star.form.component.DataBaseListBox2 that makes them
non-optional so that users can be assured to have those properties,
but in the end I did not bother, and now we are past the 4.1 new
feature freeze.

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Fernand Vanrie Fernand Vanrie
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Re: minutes of ESC call ...

  Lionel ,

i did a lot of googling, but still not know what are this extra properties ?

Greetz

Fernansd

> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 12:49:03PM +0200, Eike Rathke wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, 2013-05-16 16:25:40 +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:
>>> + double check Lionel's list-box / API change (Eike)
>> Done. The two properties added to
>> com.sun.star.form.component.DataBaseListBox are marked optional which
>> doesn't harm existing clients.
> I did that on advice of ... Michael Stahl? ... on IRC to shut up the
> "incompatible API change" error the build was giving me.
>
> My understanding was that this was for the benefit of putative
> existing *providers* of this service, that since the properties are
> optional, we did not change the requirements under their feet and they
> still conform to the service specification.
>
> I don't understand how the properties being not optional would harm
> *clients* (users of the service): clients written against the old
> specification would simply not use the new properties, would they?
>
> I toyed with the idea of adding a
> com.sun.star.form.component.DataBaseListBox2 that makes them
> non-optional so that users can be assured to have those properties,
> but in the end I did not bother, and now we are past the 4.1 new
> feature freeze.
>

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Lionel Élie Mamane Lionel Élie Mamane
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Re: minutes of ESC call ...

On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 03:07:52PM +0200, Fernand Vanrie wrote:

> i did a lot of googling, but still not know what are this extra
> properties ?

SelectedValue and SelectedValuesx

> Fernansd
> >On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 12:49:03PM +0200, Eike Rathke wrote:
> >
> >>On Thursday, 2013-05-16 16:25:40 +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:
> >>> + double check Lionel's list-box / API change (Eike)
> >>Done. The two properties added to
> >>com.sun.star.form.component.DataBaseListBox are marked optional which
> >>doesn't harm existing clients.
> >I did that on advice of ... Michael Stahl? ... on IRC to shut up the
> >"incompatible API change" error the build was giving me.
> >
> >My understanding was that this was for the benefit of putative
> >existing *providers* of this service, that since the properties are
> >optional, we did not change the requirements under their feet and they
> >still conform to the service specification.
> >
> >I don't understand how the properties being not optional would harm
> >*clients* (users of the service): clients written against the old
> >specification would simply not use the new properties, would they?
> >
> >I toyed with the idea of adding a
> >com.sun.star.form.component.DataBaseListBox2 that makes them
> >non-optional so that users can be assured to have those properties,
> >but in the end I did not bother, and now we are past the 4.1 new
> >feature freeze.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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