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Csenger Attila Szabó Csenger Attila Szabó
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question

Hy Everyone!

I'm new here, don't know how this mailing list works, so sorry in advance
for every stupidity from me.
I'd like to ask if the libreoffice developers are planning to make a GUI
like the one used in Office 2007/2010?
I like that style quite much and I find it much more useful than any before.
Or because not everyone likes it, it could be an optional GUI, or maybe a
plugin or extension.

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Bruce Carlson Bruce Carlson
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RE: question

Oh! I hope not.

The reason I no longer use MS Office is because of the silly GUI.
Never before have they made anything so difficult to find.
The whole thing takes up far too much space at the top of the screen and is NOT intuitive.
I could go on and on ... there are a hundred reasons why I don't like it. And that's just the GUI.
Leave LO as it is.

 
Bruce Carlson


-----Original Message-----
From: Csenger Attila Szabó [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, 13 April 2011 3:20 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [libreoffice-users] question

Hy Everyone!

I'm new here, don't know how this mailing list works, so sorry in advance for every stupidity from me.
I'd like to ask if the libreoffice developers are planning to make a GUI like the one used in Office 2007/2010?
I like that style quite much and I find it much more useful than any before.
Or because not everyone likes it, it could be an optional GUI, or maybe a plugin or extension.

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steveedmonds steveedmonds
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Re: question

Hear hear.

On 2011-04-13 10:53, Bruce Carlson wrote:

> Oh! I hope not.
>
> The reason I no longer use MS Office is because of the silly GUI.
> Never before have they made anything so difficult to find.
> The whole thing takes up far too much space at the top of the screen and is NOT intuitive.
> I could go on and on ... there are a hundred reasons why I don't like it. And that's just the GUI.
> Leave LO as it is.
>
>  
> Bruce Carlson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Csenger Attila Szabó [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 April 2011 3:20 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [libreoffice-users] question
>
> Hy Everyone!
>
> I'm new here, don't know how this mailing list works, so sorry in advance for every stupidity from me.
> I'd like to ask if the libreoffice developers are planning to make a GUI like the one used in Office 2007/2010?
> I like that style quite much and I find it much more useful than any before.
> Or because not everyone likes it, it could be an optional GUI, or maybe a plugin or extension.
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email] Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>
>
>  

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Daniel A. Rodriguez Daniel A. Rodriguez
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Re: question

In reply to this post by Csenger Attila Szabó
>
> Hy Everyone!
>
> I'm new here, don't know how this mailing list works, so sorry in advance
> for every stupidity from me.
> I'd like to ask if the libreoffice developers are planning to make a GUI
> like the one used in Office 2007/2010?
> I like that style quite much and I find it much more useful than any
> before.
> Or because not everyone likes it, it could be an optional GUI, or maybe a
> plugin or extension.
>

I have to disagree with you, the way how LibreOffice shows the 'contextual
tools'
is much more useful than the ribbon alternative.


--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
Escuelas Libres :: Porque la educación es mucho mejor cuando es libre
http://www.escuelaslibres.org.ar/
---
Para entrenar, cualquier programa sirve. Para educar, sólo Software Libre.
(Federico Heinz)
---

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Csenger Attila Szabó Csenger Attila Szabó
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Re: question

OK, in my case, the only reason why I DON'T use LO is the lack of ribbon.
I accept that not everyone likes that, that's why I wrote the idea of
an extensions or plugin. So those who like the ribbon would be able to
use it.
@Bruce: I have to disagree with you, I find the ribbon much faster and
easier to use. And I'm not the only one, many of the people around,
especially the younger ones find much more useful the ribbon than the
dropdown menus.
I know that those who get used to the menu-style won't like any other
solution, but you are not the only ones.
So what about the plugin/extension thing?

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doubi doubi
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Re: question

Hi Csenger,

On 13/04/11 09:06, Csenger Attila Szabó wrote:
> I know that those who get used to the menu-style won't like any other
> solution, but you are not the only ones.
> So what about the plugin/extension thing?

To answer your original question, I think it's safe to say that no-one
is planning to make LibreOffice look like MS Office 2007/10.

That said, "the LibreOffice developers" include You, since it's all
developed in the open. So if you think a lot of people would benefit
from your idea, get stuck in.

Something like changing the whole GUI is a huge task, and I'd actually
be surprised if you could achieve such a thing with the extension system.

However, there's been some talk on the Development wiki (admittedly on
the "Crazy Ideas" page:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Crazy_Ideas) of
refactoring LO to use an external cross-platform GUI library. I think
wxWidgets is a better choice than Qt (as commented on the wiki), and I
know wxWidgets has a Ribbon interface that could be useful for doing
what you describe. Check it out, it was a GSoC project:
http://www.corsix.org/content/ribbon-summer-code

So... go learn C++, refactor the entire LO codebase, *then* you can have
your ribbon :p

Bests,

-r

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Csenger Attila Szabó Csenger Attila Szabó
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Re: question

Unfortunately I can't program in any language, yet, because in this
year I'll go to university and learn it. :)
I thought a new GUI wouldn't be too hard to create, because no change
would be in functionality, it just looks otherwise.
I hope someone will be willing to help me in this project.
And I'm asking those who don't like the ribbon to be open-minded,
because this is (or would be) the power of open-source.

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doubi doubi
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Re: question

Hi Csenger,

On 13/04/11 09:55, Csenger Attila Szabó wrote:
> Unfortunately I can't program in any language, yet, because in this
> year I'll go to university and learn it. :)

Y'don't need no fancy university to learn coding! Go search "learn C++"
or "C++ tutorial" and get started :-) I've never learned programming
formally... which explains why I'm not great at it!... but really I
think learning by doing is better than learning in a class. And that's
more true for programming than almost anything else because All the
tools and resources and peers and mentors you could need are right at
your fingertips.

I'm particularly enjoying exploring the LibreOffice codebase 'cause
they've got an OpenGrok set up, as well as Doxygen. Have a look around
(I've linked to what I'm looking at currently):

http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/writer/sw/source/ui/index/toxmgr.cxx#UpdateOrInsertTOX
http://docs.libreoffice.org/sw/html/classSwSection.html

Yesterday I set up Cscope so I can get those kinds of benefits directly
from Vim (http://cscope.sourceforge.net/)

Seriously, jump in. It'll put you five steps ahead for your upcoming
formal studies Plus it's Fun, damnit :-)

> I thought a new GUI wouldn't be too hard to create, because no change
> would be in functionality, it just looks otherwise.

That's would be the ideal :-) Depends how well the code is structured
though. I know for instance the designers of Ardour pride themselves on
the fact that the GUI is completely separable from the backend engines.
I just wouldn't take it for granted, especially with something of the
size and complexity of LO.

> I hope someone will be willing to help me in this project.
> And I'm asking those who don't like the ribbon to be open-minded,
> because this is (or would be) the power of open-source

Well, code is law after all. Fastest way to be listened to is make a
proof of concept. See over-optimistic encouragement above ;-)

-r

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Andreas Säger Andreas Säger
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Re: question

In reply to this post by Csenger Attila Szabó
Am 13.04.2011 10:55, Csenger Attila Szabó wrote:
> Unfortunately I can't program in any language, yet, because in this
> year I'll go to university and learn it. :)
> I thought a new GUI wouldn't be too hard to create, because no change
> would be in functionality, it just looks otherwise.
> I hope someone will be willing to help me in this project.
> And I'm asking those who don't like the ribbon to be open-minded,
> because this is (or would be) the power of open-source.
>

Even then, the calculated labour costs would amount to 10^5 if not 10^6
Dollars or Euros.
Programming is not about filing some magic spells in obscure language.
It is much more like huge volumes of interrelated lyrics.


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Bruce Carlson Bruce Carlson
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RE: question

In reply to this post by Csenger Attila Szabó
Yes I can understand how you, thinking that you are younger, feeling like you are mature, and all the time it is your inexperience that is restricting you to see only what is put in front of you and you are unable to use logic to put together all that surrounds you so therefore you, as are many other Y generationalists, (but not all), willing to accept only what you are told and unable to think outside the square you are ordered to live in.
To be honest with us and with yourself, if the reason you will not use LO is because you will only use an office suite if has ribbon button menus than you are the exact petty minded person that Microsoft relies on for it's future profits.

 
Bruce Carlson
an X gernerationalist.


-----Original Message-----
From: Csenger Attila Szabó [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, 13 April 2011 6:06 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] question

OK, in my case, the only reason why I DON'T use LO is the lack of ribbon.
I accept that not everyone likes that, that's why I wrote the idea of an extensions or plugin. So those who like the ribbon would be able to use it.
@Bruce: I have to disagree with you, I find the ribbon much faster and easier to use. And I'm not the only one, many of the people around, especially the younger ones find much more useful the ribbon than the dropdown menus.
I know that those who get used to the menu-style won't like any other solution, but you are not the only ones.
So what about the plugin/extension thing?

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Wayne Borean Wayne Borean
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Re: question

Ah, but the Ribbon menu is important. It's another evolutionary option for
the interface. Whether you like it or not is to a certain extent a matter of
taste. Quite frankly I hated using a GUI for a long time. It slowed me down
too much. It still does slow me down in some ways, a command line is more
efficient IF YOU KNOW THE SYSTEM WELL.

If you don't, a GUI is easier.

And some of it is simply a matter of taste. If you grew up with curry on
your food, it won't taste right without it.

Wayne



On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Bruce Carlson <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Yes I can understand how you, thinking that you are younger, feeling like
> you are mature, and all the time it is your inexperience that is restricting
> you to see only what is put in front of you and you are unable to use logic
> to put together all that surrounds you so therefore you, as are many other Y
> generationalists, (but not all), willing to accept only what you are told
> and unable to think outside the square you are ordered to live in.
> To be honest with us and with yourself, if the reason you will not use LO
> is because you will only use an office suite if has ribbon button menus than
> you are the exact petty minded person that Microsoft relies on for it's
> future profits.
>
>
> Bruce Carlson
> an X gernerationalist.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Csenger Attila Szabó [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 April 2011 6:06 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] question
>
> OK, in my case, the only reason why I DON'T use LO is the lack of ribbon.
> I accept that not everyone likes that, that's why I wrote the idea of an
> extensions or plugin. So those who like the ribbon would be able to use it.
> @Bruce: I have to disagree with you, I find the ribbon much faster and
> easier to use. And I'm not the only one, many of the people around,
> especially the younger ones find much more useful the ribbon than the
> dropdown menus.
> I know that those who get used to the menu-style won't like any other
> solution, but you are not the only ones.
> So what about the plugin/extension thing?
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email] Posting
> guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
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> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

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Jay Lozier Jay Lozier
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Re: question

On Sun, 2011-04-17 at 22:05 -0400, Wayne Borean wrote:

> Ah, but the Ribbon menu is important. It's another evolutionary option for
> the interface. Whether you like it or not is to a certain extent a matter of
> taste. Quite frankly I hated using a GUI for a long time. It slowed me down
> too much. It still does slow me down in some ways, a command line is more
> efficient IF YOU KNOW THE SYSTEM WELL.
>
> If you don't, a GUI is easier.
>
> And some of it is simply a matter of taste. If you grew up with curry on
> your food, it won't taste right without it.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Bruce Carlson <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
> > Yes I can understand how you, thinking that you are younger, feeling like
> > you are mature, and all the time it is your inexperience that is restricting
> > you to see only what is put in front of you and you are unable to use logic
> > to put together all that surrounds you so therefore you, as are many other Y
> > generationalists, (but not all), willing to accept only what you are told
> > and unable to think outside the square you are ordered to live in.
> > To be honest with us and with yourself, if the reason you will not use LO
> > is because you will only use an office suite if has ribbon button menus than
> > you are the exact petty minded person that Microsoft relies on for it's
> > future profits.
> >
> >
> > Bruce Carlson
> > an X gernerationalist.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Csenger Attila Szabó [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 13 April 2011 6:06 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] question
> >
> > OK, in my case, the only reason why I DON'T use LO is the lack of ribbon.
> > I accept that not everyone likes that, that's why I wrote the idea of an
> > extensions or plugin. So those who like the ribbon would be able to use it.
> > @Bruce: I have to disagree with you, I find the ribbon much faster and
> > easier to use. And I'm not the only one, many of the people around,
> > especially the younger ones find much more useful the ribbon than the
> > dropdown menus.
> > I know that those who get used to the menu-style won't like any other
> > solution, but you are not the only ones.
> > So what about the plugin/extension thing?
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email] Posting
> > guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
>

Wayne

I remember using punch cards for programming so anything is better than
that. I like the ribbon myself but can use any GUI interface for an
application. If a ribbon is desired by a significant number users I
would think we need to consider how to add it, unless M$ has a patent on
it.
--
Jay Lozier
[hidden email]

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Tom Tom
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Re: question

In reply to this post by Wayne Borean
A lot of people are growing up with the ribbon bar.  Our menu system might be
better but it looks very old and dated now.  People often want things that look
new however sad that is.
Regards from
Tom :)




________________________________
From: Wayne Borean <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Mon, 18 April, 2011 3:05:41
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] question

Ah, but the Ribbon menu is important. It's another evolutionary option for
the interface. Whether you like it or not is to a certain extent a matter of
taste. Quite frankly I hated using a GUI for a long time. It slowed me down
too much. It still does slow me down in some ways, a command line is more
efficient IF YOU KNOW THE SYSTEM WELL.

If you don't, a GUI is easier.

And some of it is simply a matter of taste. If you grew up with curry on
your food, it won't taste right without it.

Wayne



On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Bruce Carlson <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Yes I can understand how you, thinking that you are younger, feeling like
> you are mature, and all the time it is your inexperience that is restricting
> you to see only what is put in front of you and you are unable to use logic
> to put together all that surrounds you so therefore you, as are many other Y
> generationalists, (but not all), willing to accept only what you are told
> and unable to think outside the square you are ordered to live in.
> To be honest with us and with yourself, if the reason you will not use LO
> is because you will only use an office suite if has ribbon button menus than
> you are the exact petty minded person that Microsoft relies on for it's
> future profits.
>
>
> Bruce Carlson
> an X gernerationalist.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Csenger Attila Szabó [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 April 2011 6:06 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] question
>
> OK, in my case, the only reason why I DON'T use LO is the lack of ribbon.
> I accept that not everyone likes that, that's why I wrote the idea of an
> extensions or plugin. So those who like the ribbon would be able to use it.
> @Bruce: I have to disagree with you, I find the ribbon much faster and
> easier to use. And I'm not the only one, many of the people around,
> especially the younger ones find much more useful the ribbon than the
> dropdown menus.
> I know that those who get used to the menu-style won't like any other
> solution, but you are not the only ones.
> So what about the plugin/extension thing?
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email] Posting
> guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

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Twayne Twayne
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Re: question

In reply to this post by Bruce Carlson
Can't answer the OP's question, huh? So you initiate a useless diatribe ...
and end with a condescending attitude of pure tripe. You're sure great


In news:001401cbfd6b$12dd1d80$38975880$@grahamgroup.com.au,
Bruce Carlson <[hidden email]> typed:

> Yes I can understand how you, thinking that you are
> younger, feeling like you are mature, and all the time it
> is your inexperience that is restricting you to see only
> what is put in front of you and you are unable to use
> logic to put together all that surrounds you so therefore
> you, as are many other Y generationalists, (but not all),
> willing to accept only what you are told and unable to
> think outside the square you are ordered to live in. To
> be honest with us and with yourself, if the reason you
> will not use LO is because you will only use an office
> suite if has ribbon button menus than you are the exact
> petty minded person that Microsoft relies on for it's
> future profits.
>
>
> Bruce Carlson
> an X gernerationalist.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Csenger Attila SzabC3 [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 April 2011 6:06 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] question
>
> OK, in my case, the only reason why I DON'T use LO is the
> lack of ribbon.
> I accept that not everyone likes that, that's why I wrote
> the idea of an extensions or plugin. So those who like
> the ribbon would be able to use it. @Bruce: I have to
> disagree with you, I find the ribbon much faster and
> easier to use. And I'm not the only one, many of the
> people around, especially the younger ones find much more
> useful the ribbon than the dropdown menus.
> I know that those who get used to the menu-style won't
> like any other solution, but you are not the only ones.
> So what about the plugin/extension thing?
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> [hidden email] Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive:
> http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived
> and cannot be deleted





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steveedmonds steveedmonds
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Re: question

In reply to this post by Tom
How true. I prefer the right click menus in Gimp, which luckily they
kept with their changes.
We often have to temper the best or most efficient for popularity. The
best is no good if no one uses it.
steve

On 18/04/11 23:59, Tom Davies wrote:

> A lot of people are growing up with the ribbon bar.  Our menu system might be
> better but it looks very old and dated now.  People often want things that look
> new however sad that is.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Wayne Borean <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Mon, 18 April, 2011 3:05:41
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] question
>
> Ah, but the Ribbon menu is important. It's another evolutionary option for
> the interface. Whether you like it or not is to a certain extent a matter of
> taste. Quite frankly I hated using a GUI for a long time. It slowed me down
> too much. It still does slow me down in some ways, a command line is more
> efficient IF YOU KNOW THE SYSTEM WELL.
>
> If you don't, a GUI is easier.
>
> And some of it is simply a matter of taste. If you grew up with curry on
> your food, it won't taste right without it.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Bruce Carlson <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>  
>> Yes I can understand how you, thinking that you are younger, feeling like
>> you are mature, and all the time it is your inexperience that is restricting
>> you to see only what is put in front of you and you are unable to use logic
>> to put together all that surrounds you so therefore you, as are many other Y
>> generationalists, (but not all), willing to accept only what you are told
>> and unable to think outside the square you are ordered to live in.
>> To be honest with us and with yourself, if the reason you will not use LO
>> is because you will only use an office suite if has ribbon button menus than
>> you are the exact petty minded person that Microsoft relies on for it's
>> future profits.
>>
>>
>> Bruce Carlson
>> an X gernerationalist.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Csenger Attila Szabó [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 April 2011 6:06 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] question
>>
>> OK, in my case, the only reason why I DON'T use LO is the lack of ribbon.
>> I accept that not everyone likes that, that's why I wrote the idea of an
>> extensions or plugin. So those who like the ribbon would be able to use it.
>> @Bruce: I have to disagree with you, I find the ribbon much faster and
>> easier to use. And I'm not the only one, many of the people around,
>> especially the younger ones find much more useful the ribbon than the
>> dropdown menus.
>> I know that those who get used to the menu-style won't like any other
>> solution, but you are not the only ones.
>> So what about the plugin/extension thing?
>>
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>>    
>  

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