"Microsoft Excel Is Going Beyond Text and Numbers"

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theUser BL theUser BL
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"Microsoft Excel Is Going Beyond Text and Numbers"

To be compatibe to actual and future version of Excel this news could be interesting for you:
https://www.thurrott.com/office/155211/microsoft-excel-going-beyond-text-numbers

Possible comming Excel functions like USDinYEN(), EURinUSD(), CADtoUSD() or GBPtoEUR().
Where everytime the current  exchange rate is taken from the internet and used.

So the new Excel will be the old Excel plus a big database in background, which will be permanent updated.
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Toki Toki
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Re: "Microsoft Excel Is Going Beyond Text and Numbers"

On 04/01/2018 01:57 PM, the User BL wrote:

> To be compatibe to actual and future version of Excel this news could be interesting for you:

More formulas for those who think such things are indicators of how
good/bad a spreadsheet program is.

> USDinYEN(), EURinUSD(), CADtoUSD() or GBPtoEUR()

There was an extension for OOo that pulled exchange rates, and stock
prices from Yahoo. It worked until Yahoo decided to upgrade it, by
reducing functionality, capability, and overall usability of their
financial portal.

A recently released extension appears to offer the same functionality
--- I haven't played with it yet.

In terms of matching the exact functions, it would, in theory, be
possible to modify this recently released extension for each specific
conversion.

Anybody up for USDinXBT, XAUtoUSD extensions?

I can't tell from the article description whether or not LibO currently
has an extension that offers similar functionality. There are a couple
of extension that might do so, but are currently limited to Europe. If
they are similar, then WorldWide coverage is mere grunt work in
transcribing _The CIA Fact Book_ to a database recognizable by the
extension. On the flipside, adding this data to a single extension, will
result in an extension that is a couple of hundred MB in size.

> So the new Excel will be the old Excel plus a big database in background, which will be permanent updated.

And as some of the comments over there pointed out, still not as useful
as Javelin was, back in the day.  Perhaps LibO should incorporate more
functionality that Javelin had, that current spreadsheets lack.

jonathon
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htietze htietze
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Re: "Microsoft Excel Is Going Beyond Text and Numbers"

In reply to this post by theUser BL
Interesting question - filed a ticket in BZ

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=116744

On 01.04.2018 15:57, theUser BL wrote:

> To be compatibe to actual and future version of Excel this news could be interesting for you:
> https://www.thurrott.com/office/155211/microsoft-excel-going-beyond-text-numbers
>
> Possible comming Excel functions like USDinYEN(), EURinUSD(), CADtoUSD() or GBPtoEUR().
> Where everytime the current  exchange rate is taken from the internet and used.
>
> So the new Excel will be the old Excel plus a big database in background, which will be permanent updated.
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--
Dr. Heiko Tietze
UX designer
Tel. +49 (0)179/1268509


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Toki Toki
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Re: "Microsoft Excel Is Going Beyond Text and Numbers"



On 04/02/2018 09:48 AM, Heiko Tietze wrote:
> Interesting question - filed a ticket in BZ
>
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=116744


From my perspective, it looks like Microsoft Excell 2019 is offering the
following additional functionality:

* Real Time Currency Exchange Rates;
* Real Time Stock Market Data;
* Historical Currency Exchange Rates;
* Historical Stock Market Data;
* Census data;
* Scientific knowledge;
* Political knowledge;
* Geographical knowledge;
* Sports knowlege;
* General knowledge;
* Pop Trivia --- everything not covered above;

Break this up into basic steps.

Real time Stock Market Data and Currency Exchange data was available
using the Get_Quote Extension, which stopped working when Yahoo changed
their financial portal structure:
* Rewriting it for Currency Exchange data from XE.com is a possible
solution - user API key is required;
* I don't know what the rules are, for any current vendors of stock
market data. I didn't use Get_Quote, because it didn't cover the stock
exchange I tracked - each stock market probably needs its own extension.

Census Data: Web scraping might be possible.
* US Census data is available using the appropriate APIs. User key required;
* I didn't look at census data for other countries;
* Initially at least, create extensions that are country specific;

The following knowledge sets:
* Scientific knowledge;
* Political knowledge;
* Geographical knowledge;
* Sports knowledge;
* General knowledge;
* Pop Trivia --- everything not covered above;
probably can be pulled, at least in part, from WikiData.

Personally, I'd like to see both a cloud based, and non-cloud based
version of an extension that uses WikiData. However, at 31 GB for a
zipped archive, it might be too big to be practical.

The second big issue is, will whoever creates the extension, also
maintain it?

###

I don't see the relevance of Bug 116762 to this issue.
The extension described therein, maybe.

jonathon



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Eike Rathke-2 Eike Rathke-2
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Re: "Microsoft Excel Is Going Beyond Text and Numbers"

In reply to this post by Toki
Hi,

On Sunday, 2018-04-01 20:12:32 +0000, toki wrote:

> There was an extension for OOo that pulled exchange rates, and stock
> prices from Yahoo. It worked until Yahoo decided to upgrade it, by
> reducing functionality, capability, and overall usability of their
> financial portal.

A fork added functions to use Google Finance, last time I tried those
still worked.
https://github.com/dhocker/SMF-Extension

Unfortunately it's not available at https://extensions.libreoffice.org/
but the original SMF extension's description points it out.

  Eike

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Thorsten Behrens-6 Thorsten Behrens-6
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Re: "Microsoft Excel Is Going Beyond Text and Numbers"

In reply to this post by Toki
Hi *,

toki wrote:
> On 04/02/2018 09:48 AM, Heiko Tietze wrote:
> > Interesting question - filed a ticket in BZ
> >
> > https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=116744
>
Commented there, few more bits for this thread:

> From my perspective, it looks like Microsoft Excell 2019 is offering the
> following additional functionality:
>
> * Real Time Currency Exchange Rates;
> * Real Time Stock Market Data;
> * Historical Currency Exchange Rates;
> * Historical Stock Market Data;
> * Census data;
> * Scientific knowledge;
> * Political knowledge;
> * Geographical knowledge;
> * Sports knowlege;
> * General knowledge;
> * Pop Trivia --- everything not covered above;
>
Great list, thx for breaking it down!

> * Rewriting it for Currency Exchange data from XE.com is a possible
>   solution - user API key is required;
>
There's an until-the-beginning-of-EUR times archive for
EUR-vs-other-currencies archive, IIRC even with sell/buy/daily median
data
(https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/eurofxref/eurofxref-hist-90d.xml?4e6747038ab5c1e1bf2d9e383e39a2d3
etc). Also, what about oanda.com?

I have some python code for the above, that we use for TDF's accounting.

(obligatory rant: _current_ exchange or stock market rates in
spreadsheet functions have close to zero practical value, and only
encourage people to do shitty accounting. Since you need to run your
spreadsheet recalc every day, and must _never_ trigger any
recalculation for older values _ever_)

> * I don't know what the rules are, for any current vendors of stock
> market data. I didn't use Get_Quote, because it didn't cover the stock
> exchange I tracked - each stock market probably needs its own extension.
>
A great opportunity to mine websites, and perhaps push for more open
data?

> Census Data: Web scraping might be possible.
> * US Census data is available using the appropriate APIs. User key required;
> * I didn't look at census data for other countries;
> * Initially at least, create extensions that are country specific;
>
Sounds great to me.

> The following knowledge sets:
> * Scientific knowledge;
> * Political knowledge;
> * Geographical knowledge;
> * Sports knowledge;
> * General knowledge;
> * Pop Trivia --- everything not covered above;
> probably can be pulled, at least in part, from WikiData.
>
Do you have any further pointers for that? Perhaps let's expand in the
BZ issue linked above.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Tor Lillqvist-2 Tor Lillqvist-2
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Re: "Microsoft Excel Is Going Beyond Text and Numbers"

(obligatory rant: _current_ exchange or stock market rates in
spreadsheet functions have close to zero practical value, and only
encourage people to do shitty accounting.

Indeed. I am not an accountant or economist, but I would say that even historical exchange rates are of, well, historical interest only. They are after all only some kind of reported averages, right? Descriptive, not prescriptive. Usable for demos that just need to look impressive but don't need to have actual usefulness.

What exchange rate you got when you actually performed a currency transaction depended on the kind of money (real, electronic, how much, etc) you were exchanging, and on the currency vendor, and a ton other factors. What you would want to enter into a spreadsheet with actual data from financial transactions would be the exact amount of currency A paid and currency B received in exchange, not an amount of currency B calculated based on the "exchange rate" of that day.

Even when doing something minimal and personal like a travel expenses invoice for your employer, you would ideally invoice sums paid in foreign currencies according to what you were charged by your credit card company in your own currency. Which typically would be at a much better rate than any average informational exchange rate reported for that day. Or the rate charged by the forex company when you bought the foreign cash you used. Which again probably would be a clearly worse rate than the reported exchange rate of that day.

Currency is just another kind of goods. You wouldn't do your expenses or accounting based on some average reported price of other goods or services, either, would you? You would use the actual amounts you paid or received when selling or buying something.

--tml

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"Microsoft Excel Is Going Beyond Text and Numbers"

In reply to this post by Thorsten Behrens-6
On 04/04/2018 09:31 PM, Thorsten Behrens wrote:

> Great list, thx for breaking it down!

Were I working on a set of extensions to provide that functionality, I'd
break it down into even more groups. That discussion, and breakdown
would occur on day one of a Scrum Sprint.

> There's an until-the-beginning-of-EUR times archive for
> EUR-vs-other-currencies archive, IIRC even with sell/buy/daily median
> data
> (https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/eurofxref/eurofxref-hist-90d.xml?4e6747038ab5c1e1bf2d9e383e39a2d3
> etc). Also, what about oanda.com?

XE.COM is the only source I'm familiar with. If other sources provide
the same data, use them.

> I have some python code for the above, that we use for TDF's accounting.



> (obligatory rant: _current_ exchange or stock market rates in
> spreadsheet functions have close to zero practical value, and only

The only reason/use case I have for both currency exchange rates, and
stock market prices, is to determine value for today.

> encourage people to do shitty accounting.

If one is stupid enough to use the same spreadsheet for historical data,
as for current data, then your description is way too kind.

>> * I don't know what the rules are, for any current vendors of stock
>> market data. I didn't use Get_Quote, because it didn't cover the stock
>> exchange I tracked - each stock market probably needs its own extension.
>>
> A great opportunity to mine websites, and perhaps push for more open data?

Maybe.
The limiting function here being federal/state/local legislation
concerning securities.

>> probably can be pulled, at least in part, from WikiData.
> Do you have any further pointers for that?

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Main_Page

Distributed under a CC0 license.
(https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/)

Database dumps available as:
* JSON;
* RDF;
* XML;

JSON is updated daily, and is the recommended format for downloading the
database.

The database model is described at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikibase/DataModel/Primer

The database schema is described at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikibase/Schema

Database dumps are available at
https://archive.org/details/wikimediadownloads?and[]=%22Wikidata%20entity%20dumps%22

The GZIP archive for 20180328 is 19.3 GB.

https://dumps.wikimedia.org/wikidatawiki/entities/
also has database dumps.

The GZIP archive for 20180402 is 31,445,496,877 bytes.

jonathon
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jan iversen-4 jan iversen-4
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Re: "Microsoft Excel Is Going Beyond Text and Numbers"



Sent from my iPad

> On 5 Apr 2018, at 11:40, toki <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 04/04/2018 09:31 PM, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
>>
>> Great list, thx for breaking it down!
>
> Were I working on a set of extensions to provide that functionality, I'd
> break it down into even more groups. That discussion, and breakdown
> would occur on day one of a Scrum Sprint.
>
>> There's an until-the-beginning-of-EUR times archive for
>> EUR-vs-other-currencies archive, IIRC even with sell/buy/daily median
>> data
>> (https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/eurofxref/eurofxref-hist-90d.xml?4e6747038ab5c1e1bf2d9e383e39a2d3
>> etc). Also, what about oanda.com?
>
> XE.COM is the only source I'm familiar with. If other sources provide
> the same data, use them.
>
>> I have some python code for the above, that we use for TDF's accounting.
>
>
>
>> (obligatory rant: _current_ exchange or stock market rates in
>> spreadsheet functions have close to zero practical value, and only
>
> The only reason/use case I have for both currency exchange rates, and
> stock market prices, is to determine value for today.
you use historical data to build and monitor trends, f.x. I have a 1 year trend analysis on my portfolio, this helps in deciding when to sell (e.g. not sell in panic today for reasons of the beginning trade war). So having historical values for stocks and exchange rates are useful.

rgds
jan i

>
>> encourage people to do shitty accounting.
>
> If one is stupid enough to use the same spreadsheet for historical data,
> as for current data, then your description is way too kind.
>
>>> * I don't know what the rules are, for any current vendors of stock
>>> market data. I didn't use Get_Quote, because it didn't cover the stock
>>> exchange I tracked - each stock market probably needs its own extension.
>>>
>> A great opportunity to mine websites, and perhaps push for more open data?
>
> Maybe.
> The limiting function here being federal/state/local legislation
> concerning securities.
>
>>> probably can be pulled, at least in part, from WikiData.
>> Do you have any further pointers for that?
>
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Main_Page
>
> Distributed under a CC0 license.
> (https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/)
>
> Database dumps available as:
> * JSON;
> * RDF;
> * XML;
>
> JSON is updated daily, and is the recommended format for downloading the
> database.
>
> The database model is described at
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikibase/DataModel/Primer
>
> The database schema is described at
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikibase/Schema
>
> Database dumps are available at
> https://archive.org/details/wikimediadownloads?and[]=%22Wikidata%20entity%20dumps%22
>
> The GZIP archive for 20180328 is 19.3 GB.
>
> https://dumps.wikimedia.org/wikidatawiki/entities/
> also has database dumps.
>
> The GZIP archive for 20180402 is 31,445,496,877 bytes.
>
> jonathon
> _______________________________________________
> LibreOffice mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
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Norbert Thiebaud Norbert Thiebaud
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Re: "Microsoft Excel Is Going Beyond Text and Numbers"

In reply to this post by Tor Lillqvist-2
On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 12:02 AM, Tor Lillqvist <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> (obligatory rant: _current_ exchange or stock market rates in
>> spreadsheet functions have close to zero practical value, and only
>> encourage people to do shitty accounting.
>
>
> Indeed. I am not an accountant or economist, but I would say that even
> historical exchange rates are of, well, historical interest only.

They are of tax-purpose interest.

> when you actually performed a currency transaction

you may not have performed a currency transaction at the time.
but 20 years later, for tax purpose, you need to 'convert' the value
of something at the time from one currency to another.
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Wols Lists Wols Lists
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Re: "Microsoft Excel Is Going Beyond Text and Numbers"

On 16/04/18 14:19, Norbert Thiebaud wrote:
> They are of tax-purpose interest.
>
>> when you actually performed a currency transaction

> you may not have performed a currency transaction at the time.
> but 20 years later, for tax purpose, you need to 'convert' the value
> of something at the time from one currency to another.

Concrete example which hit a couple of friends of mine ...

Expat Americans, didn't declare their income to the American
authorities. After maybe 20 years, decided to go home. America taxes
*all* American nationals on *all* their income, so they had to do back
calculations on all the money they'd earnt in Britain. Okay, so the tax
probably came to zero (British taxes are higher), but they still had to
show the American authorities they didn't owe anything.

Cheers,
Wol
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Norbert Thiebaud Norbert Thiebaud
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Re: "Microsoft Excel Is Going Beyond Text and Numbers"

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 10:07 AM, Wol's lists <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Concrete example which hit a couple of friends of mine ...
>
> Expat Americans, didn't declare their income to the American authorities.

even without declaration issues:
scenario:
you friend buy an asset in England. 20 years later he sells it.
for added-value purpose you need to calculate the profit/loss in the
taxable currency.
(note at the time the purchase is made, one may not know that 20 years
later he would need to convert that in some other currency)
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