status of Microsoft Office compliance with ODF support?

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M. Fioretti M. Fioretti
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status of Microsoft Office compliance with ODF support?

Greetings,

here is the question, you're welcome to pass it around as much as you
see fit:

what is the ACTUAL, current status of Microsoft Office compliance with
support for the OpenDocument Format? Is there something specific that
isn't supported yet? What, how.. Case stories, tests, reports,
whatever, all pointers are welcome. Thanks in advance!

          Marco
--

M. Fioretti http://mfioretti.com                   http://stop.zona-m.net

Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how
software is used *around* you

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Jay Lozier Jay Lozier
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Re: status of Microsoft Office compliance with ODF support?


On 02/14/2014 06:51 AM, M. Fioretti wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> here is the question, you're welcome to pass it around as much as you
> see fit:
>
> what is the ACTUAL, current status of Microsoft Office compliance with
> support for the OpenDocument Format? Is there something specific that
> isn't supported yet? What, how.. Case stories, tests, reports,
> whatever, all pointers are welcome. Thanks in advance!
>
>  Marco
Marco,

MSO 2010 and earlier did not support ODF 1.2 only ODF 1.1. I saw
somewhere that ODF 1.2 is supported in MSO 2013/Office 365. Since MS has
a history of "improving" their own formats each release I do not know if
they have not introduced "improvements" which make the alleged ODF 1.2
effectively a proprietary format.

--
Jay Lozier
[hidden email]


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TomD TomD
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Re: status of Microsoft Office compliance with ODF support?

Hi :)
If this is for an article then i am not sure we can really help.
Mostly we are all just volunteers and can't give the TDF's official
stand-point on any of this.  All we can give is anecdotes which
doesn't really count as proof!

Over the years we have often heard about problems with the MS format
on this mailing list but very seldom heard about problems with our
format on their systems!

Quite why the problems weren't being raised as bug-reports against
MS's apparently poor implementation is a bit of a mystery.  MS admit
to making "accidental" mistakes in their implementation of their own
format and we get the blame.  It was the same with the Rtf format and
even now that MS have lost the court case about their 'accidents' with
Rtf people still seem to think that everyone else was to blame.  It
might be interesting to compare the similarity of the promises for
interoperability made by MS for both formats over the years and the
types of 'accidents' that both formats have suffered.

We know for certain that Excel 2010 and previous versions of MSO
implemented ODF support so badly that formulas got replaced by
hard-coded values.  However, over the years this only got reported to
us 1 or 2 times.

What we don't know is whether people experienced the problem and took
it as a sign to avoid Open Document Formats in favour of proprietary
implementations of other formats or whether people were simply not
using ODF much at all and so never noticed the problem.

Perhaps people expected formats to only work on the systems they were
written in, ie that the much vaunted "interoperability" was a complete
myth and only applied to machines running the same OS and the same
version of the same programs.  That certainly seems to be the
prevelant attitude amongst office workers i work with.

Anyway, i personally think MS Office is only just attempting to
correctly implement the format because ODF is only just beginning to
be used widely enough that people are beginning to question why it
works so well on everything except MS's stuff.

Regards from
Tom :)




On 14 February 2014 13:59, Jay Lozier <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 02/14/2014 06:51 AM, M. Fioretti wrote:
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> here is the question, you're welcome to pass it around as much as you
>> see fit:
>>
>> what is the ACTUAL, current status of Microsoft Office compliance with
>> support for the OpenDocument Format? Is there something specific that
>> isn't supported yet? What, how.. Case stories, tests, reports,
>> whatever, all pointers are welcome. Thanks in advance!
>>
>>           Marco
>
> Marco,
>
> MSO 2010 and earlier did not support ODF 1.2 only ODF 1.1. I saw somewhere
> that ODF 1.2 is supported in MSO 2013/Office 365. Since MS has a history of
> "improving" their own formats each release I do not know if they have not
> introduced "improvements" which make the alleged ODF 1.2 effectively a
> proprietary format.
>
> --
> Jay Lozier
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

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doug-2 doug-2
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Re: status of Microsoft Office compliance with ODF support?

On 02/14/2014 09:32 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

> Hi :)
> If this is for an article then i am not sure we can really help.
> Mostly we are all just volunteers and can't give the TDF's official
> stand-point on any of this.  All we can give is anecdotes which
> doesn't really count as proof!
>
> Over the years we have often heard about problems with the MS format
> on this mailing list but very seldom heard about problems with our
> format on their systems!
>
> Quite why the problems weren't being raised as bug-reports against
> MS's apparently poor implementation is a bit of a mystery.  MS admit
> to making "accidental" mistakes in their implementation of their own
> format and we get the blame.  It was the same with the Rtf format and
> even now that MS have lost the court case about their 'accidents' with
> Rtf people still seem to think that everyone else was to blame.  It
> might be interesting to compare the similarity of the promises for
> interoperability made by MS for both formats over the years and the
> types of 'accidents' that both formats have suffered.
>
> We know for certain that Excel 2010 and previous versions of MSO
> implemented ODF support so badly that formulas got replaced by
> hard-coded values.  However, over the years this only got reported to
> us 1 or 2 times.
>
> What we don't know is whether people experienced the problem and took
> it as a sign to avoid Open Document Formats in favour of proprietary
> implementations of other formats or whether people were simply not
> using ODF much at all and so never noticed the problem.
>
> Perhaps people expected formats to only work on the systems they were
> written in, ie that the much vaunted "interoperability" was a complete
> myth and only applied to machines running the same OS and the same
> version of the same programs.  That certainly seems to be the
> prevelant attitude amongst office workers i work with.
>
> Anyway, i personally think MS Office is only just attempting to
> correctly implement the format because ODF is only just beginning to
> be used widely enough that people are beginning to question why it
> works so well on everything except MS's stuff.
>
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
>
> On 14 February 2014 13:59, Jay Lozier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 02/14/2014 06:51 AM, M. Fioretti wrote:
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> here is the question, you're welcome to pass it around as much as you
>>> see fit:
>>>
>>> what is the ACTUAL, current status of Microsoft Office compliance with
>>> support for the OpenDocument Format? Is there something specific that
>>> isn't supported yet? What, how.. Case stories, tests, reports,
>>> whatever, all pointers are welcome. Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>>            Marco
>> Marco,
>>
>> MSO 2010 and earlier did not support ODF 1.2 only ODF 1.1. I saw somewhere
>> that ODF 1.2 is supported in MSO 2013/Office 365. Since MS has a history of
>> "improving" their own formats each release I do not know if they have not
>> introduced "improvements" which make the alleged ODF 1.2 effectively a
>> proprietary format.
>>
>> --
>> Jay Lozier
>> [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems?
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>>
You mean it works so well on the 1% of systems that don't use MS Office?

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nabbler nabbler
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Re: status of Microsoft Office compliance with ODF support?

In reply to this post by M. Fioretti
On 14/02/2014, M. Fioretti <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> here is the question, you're welcome to pass it around as much as you
> see fit:
>
> what is the ACTUAL, current status of Microsoft Office compliance with
> support for the OpenDocument Format? Is there something specific that
> isn't supported yet? What, how.. Case stories, tests, reports,
> whatever, all pointers are welcome. Thanks in advance!
>

See https://www.mail-archive.com/users@.../msg26889.html.
There is a similar comparison web page for text documents. Search this
mailing list or ask m$,

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Owen Genat Owen Genat
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Re: status of Microsoft Office compliance with ODF support?

In reply to this post by Jay Lozier
Jay Lozier wrote
MSO 2010 and earlier did not support ODF 1.2 only ODF 1.1. I saw
somewhere that ODF 1.2 is supported in MSO 2013/Office 365.
The official statement was made on the MS Office blog in August 2012:

http://blogs.office.com/2012/08/13/new-file-format-options-in-the-new-office/

The "New Office" referred to is MS Office 2013. ODF v1.1 can be opened, edited, and saved under MS Office 2007 + Service Pack 2 and MS Office 2010. This format can also be opened and edited under MS Office 2013. ODF v1.2 can only be opened, edited, and saved under MS Office 2013. The current ODF v1.2 Extended (to be ODF v1.3) is not supported.

I am unaware to what degree subsequent corrections to the ODF specification (v1.1 and v1.2) by OASIS have been implemented by Microsoft.

Best wishes, Owen.