update service

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Florian Effenberger Florian Effenberger
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update service

Hello,

please Cc me on all replies, as I am not subscribed to this list.

For the release of 3.3.1, we should think about enabling an update
service mechanism. Right now, the update requests reach our server,
without being answered.

Anyone has an insight on how the mechanism works and what we have to
provide server-side?

Thanks,
Florian

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Pedro Pedro
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Re: update service

It is quite interesting that this message from one of the members of the Steering Committee is unanswered since 12 February.

Maybe I'm wrong about the importance of this feature but it puzzles me that both OOo and LO seem to ignore having an update mechanism.

IMO adding this single feature would clearly separate the two suites and give an advantage to whoever adds it first...
doubi doubi
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Re: update service

On 13/04/11 17:57, plino wrote:
> It is quite interesting that this message from one of the members of the
> Steering Committee is unanswered since 12 February.
>
> Maybe I'm wrong about the importance of this feature but it puzzles me that
> both OOo and LO seem to ignore having an update mechanism.
>
> IMO adding this single feature would clearly separate the two suites and
> give an advantage to whoever adds it first...

Just a reply to a ping saying, "Yes, you have to go download a new
version now"? Doesn't seem /that/ interesting.

Unless you also mean something like the "Upgrade and update through
patches" idea as listed here:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Enterprises_nice-to-have
That would be truly cool.

-r
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Pedro Pedro
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Re: update service

I meant what the OP was talking about: "an update service".

Obviously if there is such a service one would need to have a method to check for such updates. But that is totally secondary comparing to downloading updates instead of whole packages.

It's obvious that most (all?) developers have thought about this. What surprises me is that apparently there are no efforts in that sense, not even from the Oracle sponsored OOo. When you pointed me to an external link I thought you were going to show me a dev log... unfortunately it's only a "nice to have" list :(
Kohei Yoshida-2 Kohei Yoshida-2
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Re: update service

On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 12:32 -0700, plino wrote:

> It's obvious that most (all?) developers have thought about this. What
> surprises me is that apparently there are no efforts in that sense, not even
> from the Oracle sponsored OOo. When you pointed me to an external link I
> thought you were going to show me a dev log... unfortunately it's only a
> "nice to have" list :(

Well, maybe you can start working on that plino, and we will all
appreciate your effort. :-)

Kohei
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Arnaud VERSINI Arnaud VERSINI
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Re: update service

Hello,

I've found this library for Windows http://winsparkle.org/  . I think It could easier to implement this feature with.

Arnaud

2011/4/13 Kohei Yoshida <[hidden email]>
On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 12:32 -0700, plino wrote:

> It's obvious that most (all?) developers have thought about this. What
> surprises me is that apparently there are no efforts in that sense, not even
> from the Oracle sponsored OOo. When you pointed me to an external link I
> thought you were going to show me a dev log... unfortunately it's only a
> "nice to have" list :(

Well, maybe you can start working on that plino, and we will all
appreciate your effort. :-)

Kohei
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Florian Effenberger Florian Effenberger
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Re: update service

In reply to this post by Pedro
Hi,

this is indeed a topic we're investigating, but I don't know when it
will be realized.

Florian

plino [via Document Foundation Mail Archive] wrote on 2011-04-13 18.57:

> It is quite interesting that this message from one of the members of the
> Steering Committee is unanswered since 12 February.
>
> Maybe I'm wrong about the importance of this feature but it puzzles me
> that both OOo and LO seem to ignore having an update mechanism.
>
> IMO adding this single feature would clearly separate the two suites and
> give an advantage to whoever adds it first...
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> below:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/update-service-tp2479818p2816928.html
> This email was sent by plino
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> To receive all replies by email, subscribe to this discussion
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doubi doubi
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Re: update service

In reply to this post by Arnaud VERSINI
On 13/04/11 21:20, Arnaud Versini wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've found this library for Windows http://winsparkle.org/  . I think
> It could easier to implement this feature with.
>
> Arnaud

That looks cool. Just to ask for even more, do you know of a library
that's basically this but cross-platform? :) My own perfunctory Googling
hasn't turned up anything.

-r
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Hossein Noorikhah Hossein Noorikhah
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Re: update service

Sounds great.
I think it's a good assumption that updating is only needed on
Windows. Look at Mozilla Firedox update. Update mechanism is available
for Linux, but most distros disable it because they have their own
update mechanism.
I don't know exactly about Mac, but most of its uers have NeoOffice installed.

On 4/14/11, Ryan Jendoubi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 13/04/11 21:20, Arnaud Versini wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've found this library for Windows http://winsparkle.org/  . I think
>> It could easier to implement this feature with.
>>
>> Arnaud
>
> That looks cool. Just to ask for even more, do you know of a library
> that's basically this but cross-platform? :) My own perfunctory Googling
> hasn't turned up anything.
>
> -r
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Hossein Noorikhah Hossein Noorikhah
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Re: update service

And I should metion that winsparkle is a port of sparkle from Mac OS to Windows.
http://sparkle.andymatuschak.org/
So update mechanism for Mac OS can be created in somehow similar way.

On 4/14/11, Hossein Noorikhah <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sounds great.
> I think it's a good assumption that updating is only needed on
> Windows. Look at Mozilla Firedox update. Update mechanism is available
> for Linux, but most distros disable it because they have their own
> update mechanism.
> I don't know exactly about Mac, but most of its uers have NeoOffice
> installed.
>
> On 4/14/11, Ryan Jendoubi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 13/04/11 21:20, Arnaud Versini wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I've found this library for Windows http://winsparkle.org/  . I think
>>> It could easier to implement this feature with.
>>>
>>> Arnaud
>>
>> That looks cool. Just to ask for even more, do you know of a library
>> that's basically this but cross-platform? :) My own perfunctory Googling
>> hasn't turned up anything.
>>
>> -r
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>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
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>
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lefevre00 lefevre00
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Re: update service

In reply to this post by doubi
Just to let you know, I've updated the wiki page to link to this mail thread.
It would be cool to add any other informations about this feature.

Michaël
Tor Lillqvist Tor Lillqvist
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Re: update service

In reply to this post by Arnaud VERSINI
> I've found this library for Windows http://winsparkle.org/  . I think It
> could easier to implement this feature with.

Good. Are you volunteering to experiment with that and testing how it could be used then?

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doubi doubi
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Re: update service

In reply to this post by Hossein Noorikhah
On 14/04/11 06:42, Hossein Noorikhah wrote:
> I think it's a good assumption that updating is only needed on
> Windows. Look at Mozilla Firedox update. Update mechanism is available
> for Linux, but most distros disable it because they have their own
> update mechanism.
> I don't know exactly about Mac, but most of its uers have NeoOffice installed.

I think I'm confused as to what we're talking about. Is updating any
different than packaging? I assume we're looking for a system that
manages both.

I disagree with leaving things to the distros - giving *nix users the
ability to update and get the most recent fixes / features should be
/our/ responsibility, not left to distro maintainers (and I for one use
Firefox's update mechanism on Ubuntu, 'cause I don't like the changes
the distro maints make :-)

And ought we not to aim to merge the NeoOffice / LibreOffice communities
eventually, as with the http://go-oo.org/ project? I don't know, maybe
there are politics of which I'm unaware.

In other news, I've found several other possible tool candidates, and
some more information about the Firefox update system, and added it to
the wiki:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Enterprises_nice-to-have

Bests,

-r
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Arnaud VERSINI Arnaud VERSINI
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Re: update service

In reply to this post by Tor Lillqvist
Hi,

I can try to implement a prototype but I don't know how to integrate into LO.



2011/4/14 Tor Lillqvist <[hidden email]>
> I've found this library for Windows http://winsparkle.org/  . I think It
> could easier to implement this feature with.

Good. Are you volunteering to experiment with that and testing how it could be used then?

--tml





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Re: update service

In reply to this post by doubi
Hello,

I've tried this system with some problems :
  • I can't build it, it needs some notable modifications before being usable with wxWidgets 2.8.
  • this solution needs wxWidgets, I dont know if it's a problem but LibO download size increase with.

Is it the good way?


2011/4/15 Ryan Jendoubi <[hidden email]>
On 14/04/11 06:42, Hossein Noorikhah wrote:
I think it's a good assumption that updating is only needed on
Windows. Look at Mozilla Firedox update. Update mechanism is available
for Linux, but most distros disable it because they have their own
update mechanism.
I don't know exactly about Mac, but most of its uers have NeoOffice installed.

I think I'm confused as to what we're talking about. Is updating any different than packaging? I assume we're looking for a system that manages both.

I disagree with leaving things to the distros - giving *nix users the ability to update and get the most recent fixes / features should be /our/ responsibility, not left to distro maintainers (and I for one use Firefox's update mechanism on Ubuntu, 'cause I don't like the changes the distro maints make :-)

And ought we not to aim to merge the NeoOffice / LibreOffice communities eventually, as with the http://go-oo.org/ project? I don't know, maybe there are politics of which I'm unaware.

In other news, I've found several other possible tool candidates, and some more information about the Firefox update system, and added it to the wiki: Bests,


-r
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doubi doubi
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Re: update service

Hello Arnaud,

On 01/05/11 15:26, Arnaud Versini wrote:
I've tried this system with some problems :
  • I can't build it, it needs some notable modifications before being usable with wxWidgets 2.8.
  • this solution needs wxWidgets, I dont know if it's a problem but LibO download size increase with.
Is it the good way?

Thanks for looking into it. Some points:

1) I'm not at all sure WinSparkle is the way to go, given that it only works on Windows. Even if the work is relevant to Mac as well, given that WS is 'heavily inspired' by Sparkle, if it doesn't do at least *nix as well we're going to end up with parallel update systems. I think we should continue looking for a cross-platform solution for this.

2) OTOH, I haven't looked into how Sparkle / WinSparkle work, particularly how they package updates. The appcasts concept sounds simple and elegant, which makes it smell technically attractive to me as well, so my only question mark is how updates as actually packaged / applied. IF, through study of the Sparkle / WinSparkle systems, it turns out that the same packaging / patch applying method could work on *nix as well, then maybe this could be a fruitful direction to go in.

3) From my extremely limited knowledge of Wx, I know that it's far from monolithic. There are umpteen shared libraries that all do various bits and pieces. The problem Wx might pose would depend on what bits we need. I know there are 'low-level' Wx libraries that abstract system utilities-type stuff, which can be used entirely separately from any graphical libs. Depending on what WinSparkle needs one might be (should be?) able to do the GUI part using GUI components already in LO.

4) There have been proposals of refactoring all GUI components out of LO and using a third party GUI library. Some people recommended Qt, for a variety of reasons I'd recommend Wx instead. It would be an ungodly huge job of course, but maybe the experience of tinkering with incorporating an external GUI lib with LO code would be profitable for future development.

5) The other way to go is just examine how the (Win)Sparkle system works and emulate it using LO components. It'd be cross-platform because LO components are already. Again, the magic would seem to be in how updates are packaged and applied.

... make of that what you will :-p

-r

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Re: update service

Hello,

2011/5/1 Ryan Jendoubi <[hidden email]>
Hello Arnaud,


On 01/05/11 15:26, Arnaud Versini wrote:
I've tried this system with some problems :
  • I can't build it, it needs some notable modifications before being usable with wxWidgets 2.8.
  • this solution needs wxWidgets, I dont know if it's a problem but LibO download size increase with.
Is it the good way?

Thanks for looking into it. Some points:

1) I'm not at all sure WinSparkle is the way to go, given that it only works on Windows. Even if the work is relevant to Mac as well, given that WS is 'heavily inspired' by Sparkle, if it doesn't do at least *nix as well we're going to end up with parallel update systems. I think we should continue looking for a cross-platform solution for this.

I haven't tried WinSparkle but webupdate, the multi plateform update system using wxWidgets. I will try winsparkel later.
 

2) OTOH, I haven't looked into how Sparkle / WinSparkle work, particularly how they package updates. The appcasts concept sounds simple and elegant, which makes it smell technically attractive to me as well, so my only question mark is how updates as actually packaged / applied. IF, through study of the Sparkle / WinSparkle systems, it turns out that the same packaging / patch applying method could work on *nix as well, then maybe this could be a fruitful direction to go in.

3) From my extremely limited knowledge of Wx, I know that it's far from monolithic. There are umpteen shared libraries that all do various bits and pieces. The problem Wx might pose would depend on what bits we need. I know there are 'low-level' Wx libraries that abstract system utilities-type stuff, which can be used entirely separately from any graphical libs. Depending on what WinSparkle needs one might be (should be?) able to do the GUI part using GUI components already in LO.

4) There have been proposals of refactoring all GUI components out of LO and using a third party GUI library. Some people recommended Qt, for a variety of reasons I'd recommend Wx instead. It would be an ungodly huge job of course, but maybe the experience of tinkering with incorporating an external GUI lib with LO code would be profitable for future development.

Yes but it's not an update system problem, but a more global problem, so I think we could wait until there is a decision concerning the usage of a toolkit

5) The other way to go is just examine how the (Win)Sparkle system works and emulate it using LO components. It'd be cross-platform because LO components are already. Again, the magic would seem to be in how updates are packaged and applied.

Yes off course, OOo have an update system?

... make of that what you will :-p

-r

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Michael Meeks Michael Meeks
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Re: update - Courgette ...

In reply to this post by doubi
Hi guys,

        So - there are lots of ways to do this. Chrome seems to have some quite
funky very-small-diff creator for binary files, that should let us do
security updates, and the kinds of small changes we tend to see in minor
point-releases into very small patches:

http://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/software-updates-courgette

        At least for Windows (only) - [ this is Chrome right ;-] But then
Windows is the problem platform for updates I guess.

        Personally - I would love to get a review of how Firefox and Chrome do
their on-line updating for Windows, and what code from each project we
can / should borrow & re-use. It would be great to have a wiki page with
lots of code pointers for the integration points into each project
listed etc.

        Re-using something already used in a large, successful Free Software
project that ships cross-platform is (AFAICS) mandatory. There are
dozens of projects out there that might/could do this - but we want to
free-ride on these other large projects' hard work, and share the burden
with them IMHO.

        ATB,

                Michael.

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