v4.3.0.4 not working on SSE1 CPUs anymore

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Maniaxx Maniaxx
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v4.3.0.4 not working on SSE1 CPUs anymore

Hallo,
LibreOffice v4.3.0.4 doesn't work on SSE1 CPUs anymore. Tested on AMD
AthlonXP (AMD K7) with Windows7 32Bit. Previous version was v4.1.0 that
worked properly.

Exception code is c000001d (illegal instruction). Probably thrown by
SSE2 instruction (or higher) that the K7 doesn't understand (it supports
"MMX, Extended 3DNow, SSE, PowerNow!").

This can usually be fixed by limiting the compiler (GCC) to SSE
instruction set.

Can you fix that?

Regards
-Maniaxx

Crash report:
  Problemereignisname:    APPCRASH
  Anwendungsname:    soffice.bin
  Anwendungsversion:    4.3.0.4
  Anwendungszeitstempel:    53d3e2db
  Fehlermodulname:    sal3.dll
  Fehlermodulversion:    4.3.0.4
  Fehlermodulzeitstempel:    53d201f6
  Ausnahmecode:    c000001d
  Ausnahmeoffset:    000268d5
  Betriebsystemversion:    6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
  Gebietsschema-ID:    1031

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Michael Stahl-2 Michael Stahl-2
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Re: v4.3.0.4 not working on SSE1 CPUs anymore

On 08/08/14 03:10, Maniaxx wrote:

> Hallo,
> LibreOffice v4.3.0.4 doesn't work on SSE1 CPUs anymore. Tested on AMD
> AthlonXP (AMD K7) with Windows7 32Bit. Previous version was v4.1.0 that
> worked properly.
>
> Exception code is c000001d (illegal instruction). Probably thrown by
> SSE2 instruction (or higher) that the K7 doesn't understand (it supports
> "MMX, Extended 3DNow, SSE, PowerNow!").
>
> This can usually be fixed by limiting the compiler (GCC) to SSE
> instruction set.
>
> Can you fix that?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/vstudio/7t5yh4fd%28v=vs.100%29.aspx

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/vstudio
/7t5yh4fd%28v=vs.110%29.aspx

Visual Studio 2012 has switched the default to "/arch:SSE2", if we want
to support those old CPUs we have to use "-arch:SSE" (or even
"-arch:IA32", although i'd hope every CPU that can run WinXP supports SSE).

that's reasonably easy to do for our own code, but probably a bit more
effort for the bundled external libraries...


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Norbert Thiebaud Norbert Thiebaud
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Re: v4.3.0.4 not working on SSE1 CPUs anymore

On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 12:15 PM, Michael Stahl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 08/08/14 03:10, Maniaxx wrote:
>> Hallo,
>> LibreOffice v4.3.0.4 doesn't work on SSE1 CPUs anymore. Tested on AMD
>> AthlonXP (AMD K7) with Windows7 32Bit. Previous version was v4.1.0 that
>> worked properly.
>>
>> Exception code is c000001d (illegal instruction). Probably thrown by
>> SSE2 instruction (or higher) that the K7 doesn't understand (it supports
>> "MMX, Extended 3DNow, SSE, PowerNow!").
>>
>> This can usually be fixed by limiting the compiler (GCC) to SSE
>> instruction set.
>>
>> Can you fix that?
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/vstudio/7t5yh4fd%28v=vs.100%29.aspx
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/vstudio
> /7t5yh4fd%28v=vs.110%29.aspx
>
> Visual Studio 2012 has switched the default to "/arch:SSE2", if we want
> to support those old CPUs we have to use "-arch:SSE" (or even
> "-arch:IA32", although i'd hope every CPU that can run WinXP supports SSE).
>
> that's reasonably easy to do for our own code, but probably a bit more
> effort for the bundled external libraries...

The K7, which launched mid-1999, that is _before_ OpenOffice.org even
started, has been discontinued by AMD in 2005.. that is 5 years
_before_ libreoffice was launched, and 9 years before 4.3 was
released.
What compelling reason is there to run the lastest version of a
software on such old architecture ? and even more to the point, what
compelling reason is there to slow down everybody else for that.

Norbert
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Wols Lists Wols Lists
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Re: v4.3.0.4 not working on SSE1 CPUs anymore

On 08/08/14 12:55, Norbert Thiebaud wrote:
> What compelling reason is there to run the lastest version of a
> software on such old architecture ? and even more to the point, what
> compelling reason is there to slow down everybody else for that.

Maybe there's still a reasonable number of such systems about? It was a
pretty decent XP system. I only retired my K7 thunderbird about a year
ago, because I was given a newer "ancient" system to replace it.

Maybe the OP should switch that system to gentoo :-) and compile LO
himself - although the build will be pretty slow - or he could
investigate - iirc - Sabayon. Hopefully that still has K7 builds...

(Or is it a lot of effort to maintain a SSE build for old systems on the
website? I'm not offering ...)

I know we can't keep supporting old stuff for ever, but I've got 80s-era
software I would still like to run, and I know of people who can't
afford to replace aging computers...

Cheers,
Wol
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Robinson Tryon Robinson Tryon
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Re: v4.3.0.4 not working on SSE1 CPUs anymore

On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Wols Lists <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 08/08/14 12:55, Norbert Thiebaud wrote:
>> What compelling reason is there to run the lastest version of a
>> software on such old architecture ? and even more to the point, what
>> compelling reason is there to slow down everybody else for that.
>
> Maybe there's still a reasonable number of such systems about? It was a
> pretty decent XP system. I only retired my K7 thunderbird about a year
> ago, because I was given a newer "ancient" system to replace it.

I'm not sure how many systems of this era are still in use -- anyone
know where we could get some data? Maybe some other FOSS project like
Mozilla has some data?

Maniaxx -- Did this problem start with LO 4.3? (I believe that we
switched to Visual Studio 2012 by LO 4.0 or 4.1)

> (Or is it a lot of effort to maintain a SSE build for old systems on the
> website? I'm not offering ...)

Building on Windows is a bit more painful than building on GNU/Linux,
however if someone really wanted a one-off build, I guess that they
could follow the instructions
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Windows_Build_Dependencies

> I know we can't keep supporting old stuff for ever, but I've got 80s-era
> software I would still like to run,

In general, 80s-era software (or older) should either be updated to
run on modern machines or be run in a VM.

> and I know of people who can't
> afford to replace aging computers...

I'm quite sympathetic to those who can't afford to upgrade their
existing hardware. If someone can get some hard data that there's a
non-trivial percentage of our users (or potential users) who are not
able to use our software, and who *could* run our software if we just
changed a compile-time flag, then I think we should give the matter
further consideration.

Best,
--R
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Maniaxx Maniaxx
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Re: v4.3.0.4 not working on SSE1 CPUs anymore

On 08.08.2014 at 22:25 wrote Robinson Tryon:
> Maniaxx -- Did this problem start with LO 4.3? (I believe that we
> switched to Visual Studio 2012 by LO 4.0 or 4.1)
Yes, i'm running 4.2.6.2 at the moment.

I just ask for it if its really no big deal like setting a compiler flag
or something. I probably can live with v4.2.x for some time.

The AthlonXPs were indeed a very successful (if not the most successful)
series of AMD CPUs and they are still powerful enough to run most
applications on Windows7.

If its too much hassle just forget about it. I don't want to slow anyone
down.
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Jean-Baptiste Faure Jean-Baptiste Faure
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Re: v4.3.0.4 not working on SSE1 CPUs anymore

In reply to this post by Maniaxx
Hi,

Le 08/08/2014 03:10, Maniaxx a écrit :
> Hallo,
> LibreOffice v4.3.0.4 doesn't work on SSE1 CPUs anymore. Tested on AMD
> AthlonXP (AMD K7) with Windows7 32Bit. Previous version was v4.1.0 that
> worked properly.

The problem has been reported here:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82430

I think we need a decision between FIX or WontFix

Best regards.
JBF

--
Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.
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Jean-Baptiste Faure-3 Jean-Baptiste Faure-3
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Re: v4.3.0.4 not working on SSE1 CPUs anymore

In reply to this post by Maniaxx
Hi,

Le 08/08/2014 03:10, Maniaxx a écrit :
> Hallo,
> LibreOffice v4.3.0.4 doesn't work on SSE1 CPUs anymore. Tested on AMD
> AthlonXP (AMD K7) with Windows7 32Bit. Previous version was v4.1.0 that
> worked properly.

The problem has been reported here:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82430

I think we need a decision between FIX or WontFix

Best regards.
JBF

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Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.
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Michael Meeks-5 Michael Meeks-5
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Re: v4.3.0.4 not working on SSE1 CPUs anymore

In reply to this post by Jean-Baptiste Faure

On Wed, 2014-08-13 at 06:52 +0200, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> The problem has been reported here:
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82430
>
> I think we need a decision between FIX or WontFix

        I don't think SSE2 is likely to give us significant wins - most real
perf. problems are algorithmic. In the area where it might - heavy duty
compilation, then assuming you have a sensible OpenCL compiler that will
detect & use whatever 31337 CPU features it can for bulk computation and
yet work on older machines.

        At least that's the theory; so I guess we'd want to back-down to SSE1
etc. (Michael S. has a nice patch)

        ATB,

                Michael

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